Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.22.17 - Day 20

[MsSherlock]

I have to say I'm more than a bit perplexed by how this trial has gone. The Judge has allowed DM so much latitude that at times I don't understand why the Crown isn't objecting left and right. It's like the DM story- he's been allowed to give so much testimony by statements and leading questions. I'm hoping that the Crown's final witness has something of substance tomorrow. For the sake of justice for LB, I hope the Jury comes to the right decision. MOO

 

[huntergerrard]

Interesting choice of a username - zygocyte, or zygote, is a fertilized ovum. I am reminded (from the very early days of the TB case) of a genetics-type database where DM had posted an intro of some sort, searching for relatives - in context, it sounded like products of AI or sperm donors. Never heard anything further about this, but it did make me wonder whether in fact DM is WM's biological son, or (alternative possibility) if WM had children via another relationship. Fun fact, Paul Bernardo was not the biological son of his father - he was the product of an extramarital affair between his mother and a "prominent" K-W businessman. PB's learning of this fact in a traumatic way at age 16 sent him off the rails. Might have happened anyway, but....

Not that it makes any difference to this case, but I strongly suspect DM was wired wrong from the start, and can't help speculating on possible explanations.

IMO the Millard family resemblance is strong.

 

[Tdot]

<rsbm>



Lots of them here:

https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=is...0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i10k1j0i24k1.0.j0kttcZli5c

off topic i know but that whole travesty shows how much rcmp, local police and their friends will cover up rape and mass murder to suit their own agenda. thankfully the hamilton police in this case didnt.

 

[Miranda]

"Mr. Millard didn't like people smoking in the house. Smoking marijuana was fine, but if you wanted to smoke cigarettes, you had to go outside the pool?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-millard-smich-murder-trial-day-19-1.4413299

“The b---h started off all skin and bone, now the b---h lay on some ashy stone,” Smich sings in the video. “Last time I saw her she was outside the home. If you go swimming you can find her phone.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ar-testimony-about-her-financial-records.html

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Jumping in on your post...,,

Ok, I mentioned/questioned this a few days ago when the “Barrie jobs” came up in trial.
In the TB trial there was texts (I believe) about a mission in Barrie (possibly 2 were mentioned) DM was scoping out a guy in Barrie. I believe this was a failed mission. Anyone else recall this?

I have a feeling DM was going to make his money by incinerator-by-hire and nothing to do with animal cremation on wheels.

JMO

Found one of them. May 25th in texts from DM to MS about on a mission and staking our a guy in Woodbridge and hoping he’ll see what the kid drives.

I knew I seen something! This was around the same time SS was building the incinerator for DM.

 

[huntergerrard]

Why do you (anyone) figure DM is going out of his way to be so derogatory about his relationships with both MS and CN? They didn't live up to his expectations?

IMO, DM is trying to show that he didn't actually "care for" those girls. In his mind, why would he murder or why would he cheat if he cared for them?

 

[kaRN]

Does anyone get the feeling DM may have spent his money on arranging for the witnesses to have amnesia attacks for the trial.....INSTEAD of getting a defence lawyer for himself? MOO

I'm wondering if transcripts from this trial will be used at his sentencing hearing in December. That's why the kill the judge rap was introduced and why the judge wished him good luck at his sentencing. Moo but it makes sense to me.


Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

So is this the gun that MS supposedly “wanted” but DM got instead? Or is there a third handgun?

"Tim Bosma killer to gun dealer: 'She'll be a dirty girl'"

"Ward-Jackson’s lawyer Kim Schofield told Justice Jane Kelly that her client never knew what Millard would do with the three guns he bought, which included a Smith and Wesson revolver and the Walther PPK 9mm, a weapon made famous by movie spy James Bond."

The make and model of the third is still unknown, at least to me. MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

"Tim Bosma killer to gun dealer: 'She'll be a dirty girl'"

"Ward-Jackson&#8217;s lawyer Kim Schofield told Justice Jane Kelly that her client never knew what Millard would do with the three guns he bought, which included a Smith and Wesson revolver and the Walther PPK 9mm, a weapon made famous by movie spy James Bond."

The make and model of the third is still unknown, at least to me. MOO

IIRC there was info about two holsters that suggested the models of two of the guns during the TB trial. I don&#8217;t think it was trial info, but somebody&#8217;s sleuthing on eBay purchases by Millard I think. One of course was for the Walther, and I think the other was a S & W of some kind.

 

[don_quixote]

For that "Pocket full of stones". Two more theories.

1. It's also in that "song", or whatever it's called, that the protagonist surrounded himself with folks that were doing things on his behalf, created levels of separation between himself and the criminal activities. Just like MJ says that somebody brought the gun, someone picked it up and MJ himself has nothing to do with it almost.

2. Dungey created a mystery to keep jury's attention. There is a promise. Let them boil over that "why did he mention that, what did he mean". He'll probably never return to this.

MS really kept out of the spotlight this time around.
Rap: imaginary artistic thing
Rake and July 23rd incineration: that really was a test of the incinerator. SS refilled the tanks and smelled something in August. Why?
Missions and things: he had nothing to eat, needed money. Was asking to do some around the house work for cash
Empire and barn cleaning: they wanted to grow cannabis in the barn
iPad: was given by DM, didn't know the origin

Every single thing can be doubted. Is that sufficient for the jury to decide on totality of circumstances. That's the Q.

 

[JuneBug67]

IIRC there was info about two holsters that suggested the models of two of the guns during the TB trial. I don&#8217;t think it was trial info, but somebody&#8217;s sleuthing on eBay purchases by Millard I think. One of course was for the Walther, and I think the other was a S & W of some kind.

Quoting myself to link to previous discussion about the eBay info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gd-w-Murder-Christina-Noudga-Accessory/page20

 

[winter2017]

If DM had not been caught I am sure he had other missions lined up. He had the eliminator ready for his next victim. He mentioned that he wanted a boat and probably that was his next mission and he would take the boat anyway he had to and if it meant another murder he would have killed again.

 

[JuneBug67]

For that "Pocket full of stones". Two more theories.

1. It's also in that "song", or whatever it's called, that the protagonist surrounded himself with folks that were doing things on his behalf, created levels of separation between himself and the criminal activities. Just like MJ says that somebody brought the gun, someone picked it up and MJ himself has nothing to do with it almost.

2. Dungey created a mystery to keep jury's attention. There is a promise. Let them boil over that "why did he mention that, what did he mean". He'll probably never return to this.

MS really kept out of the spotlight this time around.
Rap: imaginary artistic thing
Rake and July 23rd incineration: that really was a test of the incinerator. SS refilled the tanks and smelled something in August. Why?
Missions and things: he had nothing to eat, needed money. Was asking to do some around the house work for cash
Empire and barn cleaning: they wanted to grow cannabis in the barn
iPad: was given by DM, didn't know the origin

Every single thing can be doubted. Is that sufficient for the jury to decide on totality of circumstances. That's the Q.

I agree with number two, but think he probably will come back to it.

While at this point it&#8217;s not exactly Dungey&#8217;s case to lose, it does seem like it could be winnable. I think for MS a lot is going to hang on the nuances of the law as it relates to murder, the judge&#8217;s charge, and what the jury believes about the plan to purchase and test an incinerator. Was it part of a specific murder plot? Or even a general as-yet-undetermined murder plot? Under the law, would the latter be enough?

 

[musicaljoke]

This is only the 3rd trial I have followed since day one and I am disappointed with this whole trial thing. Is it just me or is this how most of the trials go ?? How in the heck do these losers find each other and then conveniently "forget" things when questioned?? and why would the Crown have them as a trial witness?? Maybe I am not seeing things clearly but from what I read up today, this was a wasted day. It is clear that AM and Isho are still in cahoots with DM and are NOT going to admit to anything. And Dungee ?? OMG, WTF?? is there a plan I am just not seeing here or do any of you think the same as I do??? Please help me to understand this chaos

Even though some of the witnesses appear to be on the DM payroll, they still have something to offer, even if it's just to showcase their hostility toward the justice system. Contrast their uncredible testimony with that of the two fellows at the beginning of the trial, who had gone to the police with what they heard in the garage, and who, in a very heart-felt testimony, were not afraid to speak about it in court. They told how MS confessed that he killed LB and burned her. Surely they knew that they might be risking their lives to speak out against a convicted murderer.

The jury will have to decide what evidence and testimony is valid. They don't have to put the whole story together. There will be many details that we might never know. But that's OK. The purpose of the trial is not to reconstruct the events, but rather to decide on the guilt or non guilt of the two accused.

 

[Inspector_North]

I’m assuming it’s the gun seized at the scene of his death. Sad to consider that photo knowing that whatever the circumstances it’s probably the gun that ended Wayne Millard’s life.

The fact that it was seized November 2012, and WM was deemed a suicide, I would have to conclude it was the gun used to kill WM. It will be interesting to hear the process that was followed by LE in that incident. They obviously handled the seized weapon properly to determine only DM DNA was found on the gun.

If it wasn't the gun that killed WM, it opens a whole other can of worms.

LE know there were three guns, but have not mentioned the third. If must be the one that is still blacked out in the photo with the PPK.

MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

From Bill's amazing timeline: It's pretty clear to me (jmo) that MS was in the house when we hear the last of LB, and that he was so fully aware of the homicide plans that he understood the texts without requiring further explanation. I believe that MS is asking DM for payment for his part in the KKK horrors that were about to transpire. What exactly was the present at the top of the stairs? Was it a case of beer? Was it the bullets? Was it both? I don't believe that MS was innocent of the plans.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Jul 3 6:19 pm Millard texts Jackson: "it says '32 long' on the side of it. can send pic as soon as I'm home."
Jul 3 6:20 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "hmm ok."
Jul 3 6:25 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "I will show you tomorrow."
Jul 3 6:26 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "still want to head out at 2:30pm with Yukon, parking brake or not."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ."
Jul 3 6:30 pm Approximate time Millard picks up Babcock from Kipling Station. He brings her back to his Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak."
Jul 3 6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?"
Jul 3 6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front."
Jul 3 7pm-1am Phones belonging to Babcock, Millard, and Smich all ping near Millard's Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate.
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs."
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."
Jul 3 10:20 pm Noudga texts Millard: "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things."
Jul 3 10:22 pm Noudga texts Millard: "[winking emoji]"

Jul 3 or 4 - Prosecutors allege Laura Babcock was murdered on the evening of July 3 or early morning of July 4, 2012.

 

[andreww]

Even though some of the witnesses appear to be on the DM payroll, they still have something to offer, even if it's just to showcase their hostility toward the justice system. Contrast their uncredible testimony with that of the two fellows at the beginning of the trial, who had gone to the police with what they heard in the garage, and who, in a very heart-felt testimony, were not afraid to speak about it in court. They told how MS confessed that he killed LB and burned her. Surely they knew that they might be risking their lives to speak out against a convicted murderer.

The jury will have to decide what evidence and testimony is valid. They don't have to put the whole story together. There will be many details that we might never know. But that's OK. The purpose of the trial is not to reconstruct the events, but rather to decide on the guilt or non guilt of the two accused.

Don't think anybody is on DMs payroll at this point, that ship has sailed. I think DMs crew's lack of memory stems more from trying to preserve their own sense of dignity for family and friends. I'm sure that every one of these people had the same response when questioned by parents or friends; "I had no idea what he was up to, if I did I would have done the right thing". But, it is fairly obvious that most, if not all of them, must have had at least a very strong suspicion about what happened to LB. AM's testimony that he and Millard never spoke about LBs disappearance after that initial text speaks louder than words. The guy's ex disappears and nobody ever mentions or discusses her again?

These people have already damaged their reputations simply by being associated with a monster, but they are likely still accepted in society because the public perception is that they were oblivious. What if AM tells the court he knew that Millard killed LB? The fact that he didn't go to police makes him a monster, and directly responsible for not preventing WM and TB's murders. He'd be ostracized and could quite easily be charged with something himself.

Take a look at what's happened to CN. Do you honestly think she's willfully going to school in Poland? She is in exile and she will likely stay there until well after the WM trial is over. Besides Karla Holmolka she is quite possibly the most loathed woman in Canada.

 

[JuneBug67]

From Bill's amazing timeline: It's pretty clear to me (jmo) that MS was in the house when we hear the last of LB, and that he was so fully aware of the homicide plans that he understood the texts without requiring further explanation. I believe that MS is asking DM for payment for his part in the KKK horrors that were about to transpire. What exactly was the present at the top of the stairs? Was it a case of beer? Was it the bullets? Was it both? I don't believe that MS was innocent of the plans.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Jul 3 6:19 pm Millard texts Jackson: "it says '32 long' on the side of it. can send pic as soon as I'm home."
Jul 3 6:20 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "hmm ok."
Jul 3 6:25 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "I will show you tomorrow."
Jul 3 6:26 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "still want to head out at 2:30pm with Yukon, parking brake or not."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ."
Jul 3 6:30 pm Approximate time Millard picks up Babcock from Kipling Station. He brings her back to his Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak."
Jul 3 6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?"
Jul 3 6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front."
Jul 3 7pm-1am Phones belonging to Babcock, Millard, and Smich all ping near Millard's Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate.
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs."
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."
Jul 3 10:20 pm Noudga texts Millard: "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things."
Jul 3 10:22 pm Noudga texts Millard: "[winking emoji]"

Jul 3 or 4 - Prosecutors allege Laura Babcock was murdered on the evening of July 3 or early morning of July 4, 2012.

Two or three k&#8217;s in a row is an extremely common way for the text generation to say ok. It&#8217;s ubiquitous. I get it constantly from my son and his gf, and have for years. I think this is nothing more than MS acknowledging the plan for DM to buy beer.

 

[THXGuru]

I agree with number two, but think he probably will come back to it.

While at this point it’s not exactly Dungey’s case to lose, it does seem like it could be winnable. I think for MS a lot is going to hang on the nuances of the law as it relates to murder, the judge’s charge, and what the jury believes about the plan to purchase and test an incinerator. Was it part of a specific murder plot? Or even a general as-yet-undetermined murder plot? Under the law, would the latter be enough?

MS will go down for M1. I have a some small doubt that perhaps he did not do the murder, but them I look at the fact that he was at the residence, there were those pictures, he helped mount the incinerator to the trailer, he said he burned a body, he said to MM don't come back to see us at the burn, and finally the rap video. Perhaps I am even forgetting something.

Most people who did not do the murder, would run from DM, would call police, etc etc.

 

[andreww]

From Bill's amazing timeline: It's pretty clear to me (jmo) that MS was in the house when we hear the last of LB, and that he was so fully aware of the homicide plans that he understood the texts without requiring further explanation. I believe that MS is asking DM for payment for his part in the KKK horrors that were about to transpire. What exactly was the present at the top of the stairs? Was it a case of beer? Was it the bullets? Was it both? I don't believe that MS was innocent in of the plans.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Jul 3 6:19 pm Millard texts Jackson: "it says '32 long' on the side of it. can send pic as soon as I'm home."
Jul 3 6:20 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "hmm ok."
Jul 3 6:25 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "I will show you tomorrow."
Jul 3 6:26 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "still want to head out at 2:30pm with Yukon, parking brake or not."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ."
Jul 3 6:30 pm Approximate time Millard picks up Babcock from Kipling Station. He brings her back to his Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak."
Jul 3 6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?"
Jul 3 6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front."
Jul 3 7pm-1am Phones belonging to Babcock, Millard, and Smich all ping near Millard's Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate.
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs."
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."
Jul 3 10:20 pm Noudga texts Millard: "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things."
Jul 3 10:22 pm Noudga texts Millard: "[winking emoji]"

Jul 3 or 4 - Prosecutors allege Laura Babcock was murdered on the evening of July 3 or early morning of July 4, 2012.

Don't see that at all.

Jul 3 6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini." (I'll pick you up some Heineken)
Jul 3 6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ." (both my kids will answer my texts with "kkk" or just "k". Just means "okay")
Jul 3 6:30 pm Approximate time Millard picks up Babcock from Kipling Station. He brings her back to his Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak." (Not sure what this means?)
Jul 3 6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?" (Apparently Smich doesn't either)
Jul 3 6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front." (IMO this shows Millard is keeping the plan from Smich)
Jul 3 7pm-1am Phones belonging to Babcock, Millard, and Smich all ping near Millard's Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate.
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs." (This is likely the Heineken Millard picked up for him)
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash." (If there is any sort of plan, why would Smich interfere?)
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr." (Millard never leaves the house, so one can only assume the "mission" is LB's murder)
Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good." (Again, if there was any kind of plan why his he suggesting this?)


The only possible thing that I can see that suggests that there is any kind of plan between them is that Smich asks for money for food at 7:32, but he doesn't ask Millard to join him, suggesting that he knew Millard was up to something even before he was told Millard was on a one hour mission. After learning that the plan changes to eating together. IMO there is a good possibility that Millard wouldn't want to eat when he got back, but that is very circumstantial.