Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.22.17 - Day 20

[CJPRINCESS]

She meant in the TB case. She was on the fence until MS testified.

Thank you, happy someone understood lol.....if he thought I was talking about this case, geesh, he might want to have another coffee cuz MS hasn’t taken the stand yet :thinking:

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

DM says to MS that he's out on a mission around 7:30pm... wasn't it just shortly before that (around maybe 6;30pm) that he was txtg with 'Ish' about getting some domes *that night*? I'm not sure why it is thought that DM did not leave.. did he not bring 'heini' back too, for MS? If thinking he did not leave is due to a record of his phone pings, then is it not possible that DM had another phone - because as someone mentioned, where are the txts between himself and LB in making arrangements for her to go on a trip (assuming the mystery trip provider was also DM)?

Entirely possible LB was with him when he picked up the ammo. Could have been one trip. Pick up LB, pick up ammo, go back home

 

[gremlingrrl]

Its funny to me that these guys were morons and dumb criminals. I disagree. I feel these guys would still be walking free today if they'd done a couple of simple things.

- worn long sleeve shirt to cover tattoo.
- used a burner to contact only ONE potential victim
- Disposed of their own phones after each crime (or at least do a secure delete)
- Did not back up their phones

I have no clue how these guys would ever have been caught if they'd done the few things.

Well, thank God they slipped up on those.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you, happy someone understood lol.....if he thought I was talking about this case, geesh, he might want to have another coffee cuz MS hasn’t taken the stand yet :thinking:

No.. he's saying that you said you were on the fence until MS testified.. but that once you got into that jury room with 11 others to sway you, they likely would have been able to push you over that hump on the fence.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

No.. he's saying that you said you were on the fence until MS testified.. but that once you got into that jury room with 11 others to sway you, they likely would have been able to push you over that hump on the fence.

But again, how many jurors thought like I did before he took the stand. I recall many people here feeling the same way as myself. It was MS taking the stand that everyone pinned a guilty note to his forehead.

 

[andreww]

Don't need indisputable evidence, just beyond a reasonable doubt.

To me it comes back to the incinerator and the need for something with bones to test. They had no need for the incinerator and before the murder MS knew they needed something with bones to test. That to me is planning a murder and it's aftermath.

No doubt, but the incinerator was likely purchased as a tool to build their criminal empire, more likely for TB than LB. When talking about a "test burn" people assume they may burn a dog or whatever. Laura was the test burn sorry to say. Now on to business and finding a truck.

 

[andreww]

Entirely possible LB was with him when he picked up the ammo. Could have been one trip. Pick up LB, pick up ammo, go back home

Pings didn't support that.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

No doubt, but the incinerator was likely purchased as a tool to build their criminal empire, more likely for TB than LB. When talking about a "test burn" people assume they may burn a dog or whatever. Laura was the test burn sorry to say. Now on to business and finding a truck.

Agreed, but this jury is supposed to not know about TB or really the criminal empire. So to them there is only the nonsense burning garbage or portable animal cremation business or they bought it to dispose of LB

 

[Inspector_North]

So?? What's your point? He was hungry.

My point is that he was hungry at around 7:30 pm. , and "after" most likely referred to that evening. Did they just scoot off with LB in the house alive chancing MM running into LB? Or did they plan on taking LB out, and if so, why the text to not be on the porch when he brought her to the house?

We know that the phones never pinged anywhere but at the Maplegate house during that time. Doubt if LB would go out without it, but DM and MS?

The other option is DM either brought something to eat back, or had some food in the house for MS.

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

No doubt, but the incinerator was likely purchased as a tool to build their criminal empire, more likely for TB than LB. When talking about a "test burn" people assume they may burn a dog or whatever. Laura was the test burn sorry to say. Now on to business and finding a truck.

I disagree that it was more then likely purchased for TB rather then LB because TB was murdered a year later. Incinerator was purchased after the homemade one failed and the time of LB’s murder.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

The bone stuff was with the garbage incinerator so he knew more than anyone.

Your other point stands though... Do you need to know about a specific murder and help plan for it to be culpable or is planning a murder and not knowing the specifics enough?

Even if MS knew about the future dark plans for the (whichever one) incinerator, and was portraying that he was a willing participant in the 'business', there would also have to be a plan to kill a person or a group of people, but if he wasn't aware that it was happening, when, to whom, and he wasn't a party to it, I don't see how it could be considered M1. I think the only reason the Crown charged MS with M1 was as a reach because of the one highschool kid's testimony that MS said in the garage that day, that they killed a girl. The other student said MS mentioned that they'd 'burned' a girl. moo.

 

[deugirtni]

But again, how many jurors thought like I did before he took the stand. I recall many people here feeling the same way as myself. It was MS taking the stand that everyone pinned a guilty note to his forehead.

Agreed.

 

[andreww]

DM says to MS that he's out on a mission around 7:30pm... wasn't it just shortly before that (around maybe 6;30pm) that he was txtg with 'Ish' about getting some domes *that night*? I'm not sure why it is thought that DM did not leave.. did he not bring 'heini' back too, for MS? If thinking he did not leave is due to a record of his phone pings, then is it not possible that DM had another phone - because as someone mentioned, where are the txts between himself and LB in making arrangements for her to go on a trip (assuming the mystery trip provider was also DM)?

Its possible, but didn't Isho say he didn't have ammo for the gun?

 

[andreww]

I disagree that it was more then likely purchased for TB rather then LB because TB was murdered a year later. Incinerator was purchased after the homemade one failed and the time of LB’s murder.

JMO

Regardless, there is no chatter about murder or human remains. One can just as easily assume that Millard fed Smich the animal incineration story like he did everyone else.

 

[deugirtni]

Its possible, but didn't Isho say he didn't have ammo for the gun?

Do you mean when 'Ish' testified? He said that during his testimony, however the texts of that night show that he was getting the domes that night.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Its possible, but didn't Isho say he didn't have ammo for the gun?

He said a lot of unbelievable things.

 

[andreww]

My point is that he was hungry at around 7:30 pm. , and "after" most likely referred to that evening. Did they just scoot off with LB in the house alive chancing MM running into LB? Or did they plan on taking LB out, and if so, why the text to not be on the porch when he brought her to the house?

We know that the phones never pinged anywhere but at the Maplegate house during that time. Doubt if LB would go out without it, but DM and MS?

The other option is DM either brought something to eat back, or had some food in the house for MS.

MOO

I think that the one hour mission was likely LB's murder. As far as Smich being hungry I'd be more apt to believe that he may have ordered something in or walked to the McDonalds at the corner. Smich didn't drive and there is nothing else close.

 

[muddy tires]

From Bill's amazing timeline: It's pretty clear to me (jmo) that MS was in the house when we hear the last of LB, and that he was so fully aware of the homicide plans that he understood the texts without requiring further explanation. I believe that MS is asking DM for payment for his part in the KKK horrors that were about to transpire. What exactly was the present at the top of the stairs? Was it a case of beer? Was it the bullets? Was it both? I don't believe that MS was innocent of the plans.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Jul 3 6:19 pm Millard texts Jackson: "it says '32 long' on the side of it. can send pic as soon as I'm home."
Jul 3 6:20 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "hmm ok."
Jul 3 6:25 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "I will show you tomorrow."
Jul 3 6:26 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "still want to head out at 2:30pm with Yukon, parking brake or not."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini."
Jul 3 6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ."
Jul 3 6:30 pm Approximate time Millard picks up Babcock from Kipling Station. He brings her back to his Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak."
Jul 3 6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?"
Jul 3 6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front."
Jul 3 7pm-1am Phones belonging to Babcock, Millard, and Smich all ping near Millard's Maple Gate residence.
Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate.
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs."
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."
Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."
Jul 3 10:20 pm Noudga texts Millard: "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things."
Jul 3 10:22 pm Noudga texts Millard: "[winking emoji]"

Jul 3 or 4 - Prosecutors allege Laura Babcock was murdered on the evening of July 3 or early morning of July 4, 2012.

Heini is also slang for buttocks. If you interpret “scooping some heini” to mean “getting a piece of *advertiser censored*” the exchange has a whole new meaning.

 

[andreww]

He said a lot of unbelievable things.

I'm talking about the text messages. Didn't he say he didn't have ammo?

 

[FastLikeLight]

I disagree that it was more then likely purchased for TB rather then LB because TB was murdered a year later. Incinerator was purchased after the homemade one failed and the time of LB’s murder.

Sorry to say but LB was a test.

From docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Apr 15 - Millard texts Smich: "Yea short ones are called .380, longer ones are called 9mm. These ones I grabbed are the short 380s." Bosma Day 36: Harrison testimony
Apr 15 - Millard sends Smich a photo of a pile of bullets. Bosma Day 36: Harrison testimony
Apr 15 - Smich texts Millard: "I did research. The short ones are good for what u got. The ones with flat heads like u have already." (1/2) Bosma Day 36: Harrison testimony
Apr 15 - Smich texts Millard: "Round ones will jam." (2/2) Bosma Day 36: Harrison testimony

They were cooking something quite early. We see some snippets of txt messages. They must have talked, dreamed, and made plans too living under the same roof.