Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.28.17 - Day 23

[slowsleuthy]

Shannon Martin
Nov 28 2017 10:37 AM

Justice Code tells the jury he's made a ruling this morning. "Dr. Rufolo is qualified to give expert evidence in the area of zoo archaeology, the branch of science that deals with animal remains at archaeology sites"

Code says he is an archaeologist, not an anthropologist or a forensic anthropologist.

Code says he lacks that specialization, which court previously heard through the testimony of Dr. Tracy Rogers.

Code reminds the jury that photos were presented, showing "something burning the night of July 23, 2012."

ICYMI Dr. Rogers said the burning objects appeared to be human bones.

 

[Jealoushe]

Well, he certainly is an expert narrowing it all down like this, possibility of Sheep, Deer, Goat, Pig, Moose??? Really Moose and pig are in the running???

Right? And Goat....like what about the size? And DR Rogers was certain it was not animal...so this guy knows nothing.

 

[Shaz14]

Millard pulls up one of the photos the jury has previously seen.

Rufolo says he was sent the photos "with no context." He said he was provided no other information on the case.

He says his opinion is based solely on the images he was sent.
by Shannon Martin 10:40 AM

He must have had some inkling of why he was being asked since he was contacted by a lawyer... If a lawyer from a city hours away contacted me and started asking me to give my expert opinion on something I wouldn't think it was because he just had a sudden interest in my line of work. IMO

 

[Velma]

Caryn Lieberman is also tweeting today it seems, read bottom to top (sorry!):

THANK YOU deugirtni! I have added her to my tweet list (RSBM)

 

[matou]

White-tail deer humerus bones FYI.

http://www.cwreplicas.com/fossils/81.jpg

 

[dar107]

ok, He is in his rights to call his own "experts" The judge reaffirmed to the jury he does not have the qualifications of Dr. Rogers. When he is done reaching the crown will fix him up on cross, or can they call back Dr. Rogers now to step all over this? IMO

 

[Nosey Parker]

He must have had some inkling of why he was being asked since he was contacted by a lawyer... If a lawyer from a city hours away contacted me and started asking me to give my expert opinion on something I wouldn't think it was because he just had a sudden interest in my line of work. IMO

Context? Bones in an incinerator? Give me a break!

 

[Velma]

Millard asks if there is any "twisting."

Rufolo says it's possible. "It looks as if there is a bit of a slope, which would make a twisted form that would match in the bone of a deer."

He repeats, to him, it's more consistent with the shape of a deer bone, not a human bone.

"It's not possible to make a positive identification," he says, again given the poor quality of the image.
by Shannon Martin 10:59 AM

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
More
Millard wonders about the twisting in the bone. Judge tells him that's a leading question. Is there twisting? "Possibly," Rufalo says. #LauraBabcock
Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
More
The twisting means that, if Rufalo is correct about it being a distal humerus, it does not resemble a human humerus, it seems to be a deer humerus. The other bones are less clear. Photo is too blurry to be sure, he agrees. #LauraBabcock

 

[inbetweendoors]

Right? And Goat....like what about the size? And DR Rogers was certain it was not animal...so this guy knows nothing.

It could be argued that Dr. Rogers has a bit of a bias too however. She had additional knowledge as to the use of the incinerator. And the argument that Dr. Rufolo sees animal bones all day so of course he'll see animal bones here - well, the same could be said of Dr. Rogers about human bones.

Just trying to be fair to the experts.

 

[Velma]

Millard now points out a second object, Rufolo says it appears to be a "shin bone."

"It is much more consistent with a deer, than another organism," he says, given the general shape of the bone, from what he can see.

by Shannon Martin 11:03 AM

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
More
Another bone looks like the distal end of the tibia. It's more consistent to a deer than another animal, Rufalo says. #LauraBabcock

 

[Inspector_North]

And what about the size of the bones?

 

[EspressoBean]

It's interesting that the judge noted to Millard that he was not using the clearest picture of the bones......clearly not by accident.
It will be interesting to see if the crown uses another picture on cross.

 

[Gloria77]

so, let's suppose it is a deer.... how did he lift it into the incinerator?

 

[Inspector_North]

It could be argued that Dr. Rogers has a bit of a bias too however. She had additional knowledge as to the use of the incinerator. And the argument that Dr. Rufolo sees animal bones all day so of course he'll see animal bones here - well, the same could be said of Dr. Rogers about human bones.

Just trying to be fair to the experts.

Not exactly true. Dr. Rogers lead the extensive search of the Pig Farm to separate animal from human. MOO

 

[matou]

And what about the size of the bones?

Distal end of a deer tibia would be a huge and thick piece of bone. sigh.

 

[Grey-St]

I think DM hunted down the one person in the world who would testify that these were Deer bones.
He likely inquired a few experts, and picked the one that gave him the answer he wanted and needed.
The $5-10K payment certainly helped.

 

[Velma]

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
More
Rufalo is showing pages that look like they come from a textbook -- says it's an atlas that compares human and animal bones. He brought the book & Millard's legal help Rebecca Sherman photocopied the pages this morning. #LauraBabcock

marianne boucher‏
@CityCourtsTO
1m1 minute ago
More
Dr says shapes of the end of the bones makes him believe it's deer bones. Now looking at the "atlas of human and non human bones" , photos of deer/human tibias.

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
More
"Human and Non Human Bone Identification: A Colour Atlas." By Diane France. Rufalo has the tome in court. #LauraBabcock

Millard projects an image on the court flat screen. It's from a publication called, Human and Non Human Bone Identification, a Colour Atlas. The author is Diane L. France.

Rufolo says it is a text designed to help "non specialists" identify bones in the field.


by Shannon Martin 11:08 AM

 

[Inspector_North]

Distal end of a deer tibia would be a huge and thick piece of bone. sigh.

Size Matters!

 

[Shaz14]

so, let's suppose it is a deer.... how did he lift it into the incinerator?

He would have been with MS. 2 men could lift a deer. People hunt all the time and take their animals home.

Edit: which is also why it wouldn't make sense that DM would have hunters leaving dead deer on his property.

 

[deugirtni]

It could be argued that Dr. Rogers has a bit of a bias too however. She had additional knowledge as to the use of the incinerator. And the argument that Dr. Rufolo sees animal bones all day so of course he'll see animal bones here - well, the same could be said of Dr. Rogers about human bones.

Just trying to be fair to the experts.

It could be said though, that since Rufolo sees animal bones all day, he *should* be able to identify if a bone *doesn't* appear to be 'animal'?

IIRC, didn't Rogers state the normal lengths of the bone in question, as relative to a 'deer', and a 'woman'? Wasn't it much shorter than a 'deer', but longer than a (regular height) woman? (But LB was 5'10" I believe?). Sorry if I'm mistaken, will have to look it up later this afternoon unless someone happens to have it handy. jmo.

eta: Adding tweets from Rogers testimony (Nov 10th):

Rogers says she can't say for certain, but says there are similarities between human bones and the object found in the incinerator. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

IN the photo, rogers estimates the bone measurement is around 50 mm. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

She says the average for the width of this specific section of bone for a white female is 55.1 mm. For deer, it's 39.15 mm. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers says based on a width measurement from the photo, it looks like a human humerus. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

We're now seeing a photo of two more bones -- a human humerus, and a deer humerus as a comparison. The human one has a much more oval impression in the centre, where the bones lock in at the joint. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers says based on the shape comparison, another object in the Eliminator is similar to human humerus, in the upper arm, which connects to the elbow. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers has zoomed in on one portion of the photo to highlight an area. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

The same measurement for a deer was 39 mm, Rogers says. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers took measurements from the gridded photo. She says it was 25 mm. On average, a US female average for that bone was 27 mm. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers says that she actually got a human bone and a deer bone from the university's collection and compared them both, for this exercise. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC

Rogers now talking about comparing measurements of bones. #LauraBabcock
Adam Carter?Verified account @AdamCarterCBC