Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.11.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 3

[Jasper52]

Code is now moving on to talk about the testimony of Shane Schlatman, who was Millard's personal mechanic.
by Adam Carter 3:22 PM

Schlatman said Millard asked him to build an incinerator to build garbage. There was no garbage service at the airport hangar, Code says, and Millard would take the garbage away in a trailer or truck - about five or six construction bags of garbage accumulated each week.
by Adam Carter 3:23 PM

Shortly after the homemade incinerator project ended, Millard told Schlatman that he wanted to buy an animal incinerator, Code says. Millard explained that his uncle was a vet, that is was costly to dispose of animal corpses, and that he wanted to start a business with a "mobile animal incinerator."
by Adam Carter 3:26 PM

Code is now going through the messages between Schlatman and the distributor of The Eliminator.
by Adam Carter 3:27 PM

On July 7, Code says, Millard inquired about when the incinerator would be ready as he had started advertising the incinerator and had "two jobs available in Barrie." Schlatman said he never saw those ads.
by Adam Carter 3:30 PM

By July 20, the incinerator and the trailer were hitched to Millard's GMC Yukon, Code says.
by Adam Carter 3:32 PM

Schaltman testified that he was never there when the incinerator was used to burn anything, Code says. He did, however, refuel the propane tank for the device.
by Adam Carter 3:35 PM

Schlatman said that on Aug. 28, he saw ash and what were maybe bone fragments inside the incinerator. There was also a smell of "rotting or incomplete burning," Code says.
by Adam Carter 3:37 PM

 

[Kamille]

He also had to deal with disposing of his old mattress, sheets, etc. That was probably one of the "missions" he was on that night; he probably took the mattress away from home and burned it or dumped it somewhere. The clean-up probably took a good chunk of his night, so he probably didn't get around to moving her body until the morning.

The mattress may have been stuffed into the green van along with the rolled up tarp. We only have a picture of the tarp at the farm but that doesn't mean that the mattress didn't make it's way there as well to be destroyed. What else might he have done with it? :waitasec:

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I think the evidence points to him not having ammo. Isho texted that "If all goes well, you should have domes tonight (July 3rd)". There is no talk of a meeting prior to Millard picking up LB, and Isho doesn't seem like he's the kinda guy to get things done ahead of schedule, so I'm pretty sure Millard has an empty gun at that point. Yes he did leave the house for an hour but the fact that LB's phone was quite during that trip leads me to believe that she was already dead at that point.

Just because “There is no talk of a meeting prior to Millard picking up LB ... “ doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Many of the texts between them were unrecoverable anyhow. Not every single unknown can be explained by evidence. That is where common sense and “most likely” scenarios based upon our life’s experiences and the totality of the evidence come into play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jasper52]

Code now talking about Robert Burns, Millard's uncle. He testified he never had a discussion with Millard about going into the vet incinerator business.
by Adam Carter 3:39 PM

Burns heard about the idea through a mutual acquaintance, and he expected Millard to bring it up -- but he never did, Burns said.
by Adam Carter 3:41 PM

We're now taking the afternoon break.
by Adam Carter 3:45 PM

 

[Bluepopsicle]

I don't buy it. Millard leaves for an hour and takes LBs phone, in my opinion he's clearing his head. She's already dead. He comes back at 8:20. Smich texts Millard at around 12:40 asking what he's up to. So obviously Smich wasn't with Millard just prior to that. So the amount of time Millard has to get his act together is between say 8:20 and 11:40, just over three hours. In that time he has got to wrap the body, presumably in bedsheets and move it to the van. He probably attempts to deal with the mess on the mattress, and go through the loot. Those three hours would go quick. IMO it is more likely LB was killed in those 13 minutes between 7:13 when Millard finishes a 6 minute phone call and 7:26 when Millard abruptly leaves.

Pure speculation, although as possible as any other scenario I suppose. I really can’t see him killing her at Maple Gate and leaving her there, but grabbing her phone to bring along while he goes for a drive? Not that I think the things he did were logical by any means, but I can’t see why he’d take her phone. Unless she left her purse/phone in the vehicle.

I also find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that he would kill her in that short of a time span, and then go do whatever, whether it was to clear his head, or whatever else. I just think that’s a stretch, even with his oftentimes odd behavior. Especially with MS and MM still in the house, and not knowing anything about this murder plan, as I believe is your theory? You don’t find that weird, even for him?

 

[Stratocaster]

Just don't see LB not touching her phone during an hour long drive. And this time there is no warning to Smich to not be outside when he gets home. No texts from Isho about meeting, so I doubt that was it.

I agree with this theory, that LB was killed shortly after he picked her up, just like the TB case imo with him being shot within 10-15min after leaving the driveway

 

[james9]

The mattress may have been stuffed into the green van along with the rolled up tarp. We only have a picture of the tarp at the farm but that doesn't mean that the mattress didn't make it's way there as well to be destroyed. What else might he have done with it? :waitasec:

Yes, it's possible the mattress was brought to the farm to be incinerated along with the body. I would just think that the mattress might be harder to fit into the incinerator, so I thought that perhaps he disposed of the sheets and mattress that night. Also, if he was pulled over by a police officer on the way to the farm, a body wrapped in a tarp wouldn't look as suspicious at first glance as a large mattress and sheets potentially covered in blood or vomit or whatever. The thought of all this makes me shudder.

 

[andreww]

The mattress may have been stuffed into the green van along with the rolled up tarp. We only have a picture of the tarp at the farm but that doesn't mean that the mattress didn't make it's way there as well to be destroyed. What else might he have done with it? :waitasec:

Been thinking about the mattress. Not sure you would be able to get a king size mattress in to a van. You can't really roll them up and they are pretty wide.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

Been thinking about the mattress. Not sure you would be able to get a king size mattress in to a van. You can't really roll them up and they are pretty wide.

I think you could make a king sized mattress fit in a van, but not a box spring.

 

[Jasper52]

We're back. Code says he's now moving on to the "last gasp" of the charge. We're on page 263.
by Adam Carter 4:11 PM

Rogers didn't actually have any remains to work with here, so she examined two photos of bones burning that were pulled off one of Millard's computers. She was given those photos by police.
by Adam Carter 4:13 PM

Forensic anthropologists can commonly differentiate animal bones from human bones on the basis of photos, Code says. "However, they can usually ask for photographs with better resolution than the two photographs in this case. Ideally, they can ask for the bones themselves. As a result of the poor resolution of the photographs in this case, Dr. Rogers could not give a certain opinion and concluded only that the burning objects in the photos are 'similar to human bones.'"
by Adam Carter 4:16 PM

Rogers concluded the bones in the photo were "similar to human bones."
by Adam Carter 4:17 PM

There is quite a difference between human bones and animal bones, Code says, that's because humans walk upright and our arm bones are not weight bearing.
by Adam Carter 4:20 PM

In her examination in chief, Rogers compared the bones of a human and the bones of a deer.
by Adam Carter 4:21 PM

 

[andreww]

I agree with this theory, that LB was killed shortly after he picked her up, just like the TB case imo with him being shot within 10-15min after leaving the driveway

Thats my thinking too. However, LB used her phone at 7:03, Millard got a six minute call at 7:08, and he was on the road by 7:26. That leaves only 12 or 13 minutes to kill her. Obviously if he used a gun, thats plenty of time. If he strangled her? Maybe not.

 

[Kamille]

I think you could make a king sized mattress fit in a van, but not a box spring.

It would sure hide the rolled up tarp likely laying beneath it if ever pulled over by LE. Doubt the sheets were still on it regardless of what condition they were in. Also not sure where the rumours of Pedo urinating on the bed came from but it makes sense that the mattress may have been urine soaked if the murder took place on it.

Does anyone know who started and/or floated those Pedo urinating on the bed rumours? :waitasec:

Was this something that someone wanted people to think regarding an excuse for the replacement of the mattress? If so, pretty weird timing to replace it just when LB "disappears". :thinking:

MOO

 

[Ashley96]

I don't buy it. Millard leaves for an hour and takes LBs phone, in my opinion he's clearing his head. She's already dead. He comes back at 8:20. Smich texts Millard at around 12:40 asking what he's up to. So obviously Smich wasn't with Millard just prior to that. So the amount of time Millard has to get his act together is between say 8:20 and 11:40, just over three hours. In that time he has got to wrap the body, presumably in bedsheets and move it to the van. He probably attempts to deal with the mess on the mattress, and go through the loot. Those three hours would go quick. IMO it is more likely LB was killed in those 13 minutes between 7:13 when Millard finishes a 6 minute phone call and 7:26 when Millard abruptly leaves.

That just doesn't sound like it's in character to me...Do you really see DM doing all that work by himself? Doesn't he typically get his 'friends' to help?
Has he ever struck anyone as someone who needs to drive around to clear his head? He is always presented as calm, emotionless...chatting as if normal while disposing of dead bodies and bloody evidence...

Not saying it isn't possible...but I still see it being a bro bonding activity, with MS right there helping things along as needed...makes the most sense to me.

 

[saulgoodman]

Why didn't the Crown ask MM how she and MS shared that night of the 3rd ?


Better yet... if MS was so innocent then, why didn't TD ask MM that very question. Had he asked, and MM replied 'MS was with me the entire night'. What a great alibi for MS.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

Why didn't the Crown ask MM how she and MS shared that night of the 3rd ?


Better yet... if MS was so innocent then, why didn't TD ask MM that very question. Had he asked, and MM replied 'MS was with me the entire night'. What a great alibi for MS.

I'm no sure that MM vouching for MS would be a 'great' alibi, but it would have been something at least.

 

[banting]

I can't see how he could have moved a bloody kingsize mattress out of the house on his own and get it into the van, without leaving a mess and/or disturbing others in the house. But it went somewhere. Also removing the body from the house and rolling the tarp would have been difficult on his own and where was there enough space to actually do it. It would have been light until around 10pm I guess and he wouldn't want to risk neighbours or passersby seeing anything.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I think you could make a king sized mattress fit in a van, but not a box spring.

Typically, two smaller box springs support a king-size matress.

Photo of DM's bedroom from the Toronto Sun:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=dell...&hl=en-ca&client=safari#imgrc=6qWDcmkvev17BM:

ETA: Do we know for certain DM had a king-size mattress prior to replacing it with the new one?

 

[banting]

The 6 minute call was to AM I think. Although he was in Winnipeg he may have been back visiting for the long weekend. Did he possibly live near Claireville?

 

[Jasper52]

Code is now running through Millard's final phone contacts with Babcock, his statements to Shawn Lerner and Andrew Michalski about her disappearance, and his text messages and letters to Noudga after Babcock vanished.
by Adam Carter 4:31 PM

As an example, on July 2, 2012, there are 42 calls and text messages between Millard and Babcock's phones.
by Adam Carter 4:32 PM

"Because I don't use one of these cell phones I don't know what a cell phone bill looks like," Code says, while going through phone evidence.
by Adam Carter 4:40 PM

 

[Kamille]

Why didn't the Crown ask MM how she and MS shared that night of the 3rd ?


Better yet... if MS was so innocent then, why didn't TD ask MM that very question. Had he asked, and MM replied 'MS was with me the entire night'. What a great alibi for MS.

Probably because it was over a year later by the time they started investigating this murder and MM seems to have been able to skate by with her non self incriminating testimony in both trials as just a naive young drugged out waif who didn't see anything unusual or question anything the entire time she was dating MS. Personally I don't believe it at all but what else can LE and the Crown do? They can't make her remember things that IMO she is choosing to forget. And they have no solid evidence to suggest that she was in on either plan.

So if they were to ask her whether she remembers where MS was that night, her answer is likely going to be no. It was a long time ago and nothing about that night stood out to her to make her remember anything. She wouldn't even commit to that two day period as being the time that the IPad made an appearance in her life, even though she was the first to start taking selfies with it the next day.

MOO