Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[bcgirl]

If the Bosma family and the Babcock family don't ever have to go to a parole hearing, it would definitely make it worthwhile to have consecutive sentences for both. They've BOTH been found guilty of M1.

Everything I've read makes it seem like irrelevant. People with two separate 1st degree murder convictions don't appear to get parole. I suppose the big benefit is not having victim family members have to go to parole hearings to say they disagree with it.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I was going by things I have read , and that he is doing very badly in prison.
It is true that is not proof of his remorse.
Maybe with more time he spends in prison and free from drugs he will recognize his part of the crimes. I think he is more capable to come to the realization of his responsibility in the murderers.
The judge did say to DM that his involvement was a lot more serious from MS. The bad part of MS is that he is a follower and so if he associates with the wrong people he can be persuaded to commit crimes.

Well prison isn’t fun! Can’t imagine anyone doing very well in the clink! Especially ones that kill innocent Family men and women! They Will be looked at just like all the child molesters. My hip is that both DM and MS go to gen-pop and feel the same sense of fear their victims felt!

 

[Errrr]

I was going by things I have read , and that he is doing very badly in prison.
It is true that is not proof of his remorse.
Maybe with more time he spends in prison and free from drugs he will recognize his part of the crimes. I think he is more capable to come to the realization of his responsibility in the murderers.
The judge did say to DM that his involvement was a lot more serious from MS. The bad part of MS is that he is a follower and so if he associates with the wrong people he can be persuaded to commit crimes.

When you're in the business of distributing drugs and weapons, it's very difficult to associate with right people. It sounds like he's feeling sorry for himself and that means he feels regret, not remorse.

 

[Grey-St]

I was going by things I have read , and that he is doing very badly in prison.
It is true that is not proof of his remorse.
Maybe with more time he spends in prison and free from drugs he will recognize his part of the crimes. I think he is more capable to come to the realization of his responsibility in the murderers.
The judge did say to DM that his involvement was a lot more serious from MS. The bad part of MS is that he is a follower and so if he associates with the wrong people he can be persuaded to commit crimes.

He's not doing well in prison?
How on earth does that show he's remorseful? It doesn't.

Self pity is a far stretch from remorse.

 

[Grey-St]

Good for MS! He will have at least 21 more years to prove his remorse to a parole board. Although he can expect the Bosma's to be providing an impact statement.

From what I have observed, MS is remorseful for being caught. His performance on the stand during the TB trial was that of someone who put on a good act about not wanting to go near the Eliminator. Yeah sure! MOO

Ah, yes. I see it now. MS looks terrified. :facepalm:

 

[clefk27]

He's not doing well in prison?
How on earth does that show he's remorseful? It doesn't.

Self pity is a far stretch from remorse.

One of the earlier posts indicated that DM was in Gen Pop and MS was in PC. Suspect that has something to do with his testimony in the TB trial. “smich the snitch” would not fare well in Gen Pop. A lot of regrets for sure. Remorse?? Zero evidence for that. JMO

 

[Inspector_North]

I could be wrong because I have never interacted with MS, but I do believe between DM and MS, MS has shown some remorse
I have read that while in prison he has had remorse. The people saying it could be just doing it because they supported him, or it could be real.
If he has shown remorse I don't have a problem with a concurrent sentence, he will still be in his 50's before he could get parole and both families of victims will be at the parole hearings I am sure so will not mean he would get parole.
DM obviously will get consecutive because all the jurors recommended it.

BBM

Hi Winter

I suspect the death sentence is a wrong path for the moment to moment judgement inconsistencies like you have shown in your post from just a while back. What is it? Death penalty or concurrent for multiple M1's? Can't call back a death penalty once its been executed. MOO



"Quote Originally Posted by winter2017 View Post
I am happy this forum sticks to the subject of the trial and does not allow people to get sidetracked with personal attacks to others on this forum. I like that that most on this forum in no way support the accused. It happens on fb a lot on certain forums. One I belong to a memorial page for Tim Bosma does not allow personal attacks and does not allow members to support the accused.
I would like to see the death penalty for M1 and definitely when someone is guilty of multiple M1 charges. I know Canada does not want to have the death penalty, but locking someone up that will never be able to get out of prison I am conflicted about it.
Anyway, thanks to the admins on this forum, for doing a fantastic job to manage this forum."

 

[winter2017]

BBM

Hi Winter

I suspect the death sentence is a wrong path for the moment to moment judgement inconsistencies like you have shown in your post from just a while back. What is it? Death penalty or concurrent for multiple M1's? Can't call back a death penalty once its been executed. MOO



"Quote Originally Posted by winter2017 View Post
I am happy this forum sticks to the subject of the trial and does not allow people to get sidetracked with personal attacks to others on this forum. I like that that most on this forum in no way support the accused. It happens on fb a lot on certain forums. One I belong to a memorial page for Tim Bosma does not allow personal attacks and does not allow members to support the accused.
I would like to see the death penalty for M1 and definitely when someone is guilty of multiple M1 charges. I know Canada does not want to have the death penalty, but locking someone up that will never be able to get out of prison I am conflicted about it.
Anyway, thanks to the admins on this forum, for doing a fantastic job to manage this forum."

I made that comment before I understood concurrent and consecutive sentencing. Now that I do I see that someone like DM who was the principal person in both murders because he bought the guns and incinerator, he had the motive to kill Laura, I think he definitely deserves consecutive sentence and he was so not remorseful at Laura s trial even at the end turning to Laura s mother and staring at her.
MS was definitely involved but not the principal person to initiate the plan to murder IMO. Knowing he will serve out 25 years which will make him in his 50's if he were to ever get out of prison, I feel that it is possible he will in future, and only my opinion, have remorse.
I don't believe DM will ever have remorse and he has to stay locked up.

 

[clefk27]

I made that comment before I understood concurrent and consecutive sentencing. Now that I do I see that someone like DM who was the principal person in both murders because he bought the guns and incinerator, he had the motive to kill Laura, I think he definitely deserves consecutive sentence and he was so not remorseful at Laura s trial even at the end turning to Laura s mother and staring at her.
MS was definitely involved but not the principal person to initiate the plan to murder IMO. Knowing he will serve out 25 years which will make him in his 50's if he were to ever get out of prison, I feel that it is possible he will in future, and only my opinion, have remorse.
I don't believe DM will ever have remorse and he has to stay locked up.

I’m no psychologist but MS grew up without a father in the home and DM, unfortunately, became like a father or big brother figure to him. While DM‘s Evil tendencies flow from his very nature, one may speculate that MS’s evil of more of a nurture phenomenon. He has completed his high school equivalence with only exemplary comments from his teachers.
MS may actually have the potential to be rehabilitated.
JMO

 

[winter2017]

Ah, yes. I see it now. MS looks terrified. :facepalm:

No he does not at all but in MS case he was very , very high on drugs all the time. He was out of his mind.
That definitely does not excuse someone committing murder, I feel IMO he had a terrible addiction to drugs and It is possible if he stayed away from drugs that he would be a different person.

 

[Grey-St]

I’m no psychologist but MS grew up without a father in the home and DM, unfortunately, became like a father or big brother figure to him. While DM‘s Evil tendencies flow from his very nature, one may speculate that MS’s evil of more of a nurture phenomenon. He has completed his high school equivalence with only exemplary comments from his teachers.
MS may actually have the potential to be rehabilitated.
JMO

No he does not at all but in MS case he was very , very high on drugs all the time. He was out of his mind.
That definitely does not excuse someone committing murder, I feel IMO he had a terrible addiction to drugs and It is possible if he stayed away from drugs that he would be a different person.

While I sympathize with these nuances, as no one chooses their childhood, and no one chooses addiction, he has not shown one ounce of remorse.

Rehabilitation does not equate remorse.

 

[Inspector_North]

I’m no psychologist but MS grew up without a father in the home and DM, unfortunately, became like a father or big brother figure to him. While DM‘s Evil tendencies flow from his very nature, one may speculate that MS’s evil of more of a nurture phenomenon. He has completed his high school equivalence with only exemplary comments from his teachers.
MS may actually have the potential to be rehabilitated.
JMO

From what I understand, so did Obama grow up without a father in the home. I'm not sure I understand the second thoughts around MS's nurturing as an excuse for his involvement in multiple horrendous crimes. He obviously knew right from wrong, and what was expected of him. He is a clever young man, and chose to be criminally clever, or so he thought. MOO

Oh! And I also understand that Obama smoked a lot of pot when he was around MS's age when these crimes occurred.

From Bill's timeline

"Apr 14 8:46 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea f%^k it. I'm gunna get a job I guess. I need money."
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: "And finally when we get around to the rhymes it's gunna have to be on weekends and ****." (1/3)
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: " But I guess it's finally time for me to grow the f^%k up and start being like one of the..." (2/3)
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: "...people everyone wants me to be." (3/3)"

 

[JuneBug67]

From what I understand, so did Obama grow up without a father in the home. I'm not sure I understand the second thoughts around MS's nurturing as an excuse for his involvement in multiple horrendous crimes. He obviously knew right from wrong, and what was expected of him. He is a clever young man, and chose to be criminally clever, or so he thought. MOO

Oh! And I also understand that Obama smoked a lot of pot when he was around MS's age when these crimes occurred.

From Bill's timeline

"Apr 14 8:46 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea f%^k it. I'm gunna get a job I guess. I need money."
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: "And finally when we get around to the rhymes it's gunna have to be on weekends and ****." (1/3)
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: " But I guess it's finally time for me to grow the f^%k up and start being like one of the..." (2/3)
Apr 14 9:09 pm Smich texts Millard: "...people everyone wants me to be." (3/3)"

Nobody should underestimate the impact on a life when one becomes enmeshed with a psychopath. Smich strikes me as a reclaimable human being, given a long while and the right breaks. Whether he will have that chance at all is in the hands of Justice Code. If not, he'll have to somehow scratch a meaningful life out behind bars.

Without leaps ahead in brain and behaviour science, DM is a probably a lost cause.

 

[Inspector_North]

Nobody should underestimate the impact on a life when one becomes enmeshed with a psychopath. Smich strikes me as a reclaimable human being, given a long while and the right breaks. Whether he will have that chance at all is in the hands of Justice Code. If not, he'll have to somehow scratch a meaningful life out behind bars.

Without leaps ahead in brain and behavior science, DM is a probably a lost cause.

Thanks, point taken.

Your post reminded me about that young girl who walked into the police station to report Shayne Lund, the psychopath. While other girls were enmeshed into his horrific world, this young lady would have nothing to do with someone wanting to get his hands on her 9 year old sister. Parents should be so proud.

MS made a choice, and made another choice almost a year later. Both of them had consequences, and at the age of 23, he was old enough to know his choices came with a possibility of a life sentence. MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

Thanks, point taken.

Your post reminded me about that young girl who walked into the police station to report Shayne Lund, the psychopath. While other girls were enmeshed into his horrific world, this young lady would have nothing to do with someone wanting to get his hands on her 9 year old sister. Parents should be so proud.

MS made a choice, and made another choice almost a year later. Both of them had consequences, and at the age of 23, he was old enough to know his choices came with a possibility of a life sentence. MOO

Yes, it's interesting isn't it, to contemplate why people take different paths when standing at the same fork in the woods. The simple answer of character is appealing, but I suspect it's much more complex and dependent on a thousand things big and small that can be so capricious they may as well be random.

Most of all, thank God there was this particular young girl, and that she did take the steps she did. I didn't know that case, but did a quick search. Ugh.

 

[Inspector_North]

Yes, it's interesting isn't it, to contemplate why people take different paths when standing at the same fork in the woods. The simple answer of character is appealing, but I suspect it's much more complex and dependent on a thousand things big and small that can be so capricious they may as well be random.

Most of all, thank God there was this particular young girl, and that she did take the steps she did. I didn't know that case, but did a quick search. Ugh.

I agree it's complex. But we can't easily make laws with adjustable penalties based on theories of why, only on what they did. Especially when the underlying reason cannot be identified with a mental or drug induced excuse. Many of MS's texts were sent when he was not high. MOO

I much prefer to put my sympathy towards the victims families, with some left over for the those negatively impacted by their unavoidable proximity, like Robert Burns's family.

 

[Inspector_North]

I made that comment before I understood concurrent and consecutive sentencing. Now that I do I see that someone like DM who was the principal person in both murders because he bought the guns and incinerator, he had the motive to kill Laura, I think he definitely deserves consecutive sentence and he was so not remorseful at Laura s trial even at the end turning to Laura s mother and staring at her.
MS was definitely involved but not the principal person to initiate the plan to murder IMO. Knowing he will serve out 25 years which will make him in his 50's if he were to ever get out of prison, I feel that it is possible he will in future, and only my opinion, have remorse.
I don't believe DM will ever have remorse and he has to stay locked up.

Are you sure DM was the principle person based on who purchased the gun and incinerator?

BBM


'From Smich to Millard: “Like I said, this is only the beginning. I’m makin us a team, an army. You kno. We will be proper soon. Nobody can f--- with Say10 and Dman.”'

I say it was a partnership deserving of sharing consecutive sentencing. MOO

 

[Boxer]

While I sympathize with these nuances, as no one chooses their childhood, and no one chooses addiction, he has not shown one ounce of remorse.

Rehabilitation does not equate remorse.

Exactly. Rehabilitation usually means rejoining society as in parole. Rehabilitation should just mean able to be assigned to more preferred prison setting, but no chance of returning to society.

 

[Georgeo]

Are you sure DM was the principle person based on who purchased the gun and incinerator?

BBM


'From Smich to Millard: “Like I said, this is only the beginning. I’m makin us a team, an army. You kno. We will be proper soon. Nobody can f--- with Say10 and Dman.”'

I say it was a partnership deserving of sharing consecutive sentencing. MOO

totally a partnership. No confession, no tears on the stand at TB trial, just a practiced story, well coached at that.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

One of the earlier posts indicated that DM was in Gen Pop and MS was in PC. Suspect that has something to do with his testimony in the TB trial. “smich the snitch” would not fare well in Gen Pop. A lot of regrets for sure. Remorse?? Zero evidence for that. JMO

No idea on prison culture but DM through his lawyer did the exact same thing as MS. Can't imagine taking the stand in your own defense is considered snitching. It's not like he went or talked to the cops.

Not that I trust DM but his letters insinuated he had a choice of where to be in the prison because of his notoriety, I'm sure MS had the same.