Legal Q&A Thread for R Hornsby

[fhc]

Who is MAD?, those are initials

 

[whats the punch line]

Second smartest thing any of us have said.

and the first was???


(ps I don't think there is a smoking gun)..nor do I think you do

 

[Blaise]

25 new motions filed today (I be loving me some Angel Who Cares and insist Tricia pay her double time for working on the day after Thanksgiving), listed below (motions and memos in support of . . . ).

Just white noise or anything of note?

Declare Florida Statute Section 921.141 Unconstitutional Under Ring vs. Arizona

Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied

Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case

For a Statement of Particulars Providing Notice of Aggravating Circumstances

Objection to the Standard Jury Instruction on Reasonable Doubt

To Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority)

To Declare 921.141 Florida Statutes Unconstitutional Because it Improperly Shifts Burdens of Proof to the Defendant, Thereby Creating a Presumption of Death

To Prohibit any Reference to the Jury's Role at the Penalty Phase Being 'Advisory' or to the Jury's Penalty Verdict as Being a 'Recommendation'

To Declare Florida Statute 921.141 Unconstitutional Due to its Failure to Narrow the Scope of the Death Penalty

For Jury Instructions Correctly Defining "Premeditation"

Blaise

 

[whats the punch line]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but here goes..

I admire and gain a lot from your analysis, BUT

None of us, including YOU, are privy to anything, except what is released under sunshine laws.

There for anything, and everything is subject to supposition, and speculation. unless of course you may provide basis on case law as to how a given motion might be ruled on.

I still doubt the SAO can nail this girl, as much as I wish they could.

The questions I am asking are based on a circumstantial case presented by the SAO. I want to know how likely it would be to charge and incarcerate her with the evidence at hand.

Thus far I see a slim to none chance.

Do I think that is good?

a resoundly NO!

ps we know she was charged, what about prosecution?

 

[whats the punch line]

25 new motions filed today (I be loving me some Angel Who Cares and insist Tricia pay her double time for working on the day after Thanksgiving), listed below (motions and memos in support of . . . ).

Just white noise or anything of note?

Declare Florida Statute Section 921.141 Unconstitutional Under Ring vs. Arizona

Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied

Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case

For a Statement of Particulars Providing Notice of Aggravating Circumstances

Objection to the Standard Jury Instruction on Reasonable Doubt

To Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority)

To Declare 921.141 Florida Statutes Unconstitutional Because it Improperly Shifts Burdens of Proof to the Defendant, Thereby Creating a Presumption of Death

To Prohibit any Reference to the Jury's Role at the Penalty Phase Being 'Advisory' or to the Jury's Penalty Verdict as Being a 'Recommendation'

To Declare Florida Statute 921.141 Unconstitutional Due to its Failure to Narrow the Scope of the Death Penalty

For Jury Instructions Correctly Defining "Premeditation"

Blaise

and does this have any bearing on the voire dire motion I mentioned before?

 

[trixi491]

Richard-based on your experience with Florida jurors, do you think she will be found guilty of Murder 1? Not whether or not you (or other attorneys) think she should or should not be based on a lack of evidence, but what the people of FL will? Thanks!

 

[autumnlover]

if they had it, they were obligated to release it to Baez...in a specific time frame from receiving it. They haven't. (IMHO)

They might have released it to JB but it wasn't made public. The Florida Sunshine Laws prohibit discovery released to the public that would be so incriminating as to prevent the defendant from getting a fair trial. Personally, I think the defense already knows and has the evidence that could put KC away for life or be executed. IMO, that's why they suddenly do these media blitzes - to plant reasonable doubt in potential jurors because they know they don't have a case.

 

[citygirl]

In my line of work I don't assume anything, there are a lot of things in this world that do not make sense to me.

Fair enough. Yes, many things in this world don't make sense. But to JQ Public, me , the potential juror sitting in a court room , I would use common sense to form my opinion.

And you will probably be surprised by this , but if she walks, she walks. I don't think she's gonna walk. I'm thinking LWOP best case scenario. And this will REALLY surprise you. It gives me no pleasure to see her sentenced. She's a baby. She's a sick baby for sure. But I do believe in redemption.

 

[AZlawyer]

25 new motions filed today (I be loving me some Angel Who Cares and insist Tricia pay her double time for working on the day after Thanksgiving), listed below (motions and memos in support of . . . ).

Just white noise or anything of note?

Declare Florida Statute Section 921.141 Unconstitutional Under Ring vs. Arizona

Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied

Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case

For a Statement of Particulars Providing Notice of Aggravating Circumstances

Objection to the Standard Jury Instruction on Reasonable Doubt

To Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority)

To Declare 921.141 Florida Statutes Unconstitutional Because it Improperly Shifts Burdens of Proof to the Defendant, Thereby Creating a Presumption of Death

To Prohibit any Reference to the Jury's Role at the Penalty Phase Being 'Advisory' or to the Jury's Penalty Verdict as Being a 'Recommendation'

To Declare Florida Statute 921.141 Unconstitutional Due to its Failure to Narrow the Scope of the Death Penalty

For Jury Instructions Correctly Defining "Premeditation"

Blaise

Just from a quick glance, it looks like the defense is making sure their appeal issues are well-preserved by raising each one specifically and in writing before trial. They expect to lose these motions but don't want the SA to say on appeal that they failed to properly raise the issues.

 

[Coldpizza]

"If" - but the only problem is that we do not know how she died or when.

So no matter how despicable Casey Anthony's post-arrest conduct was, unless you can show that her non-cooperation contributed to Caylee's death, you can not use that conduct as a "legal" basis to convict of Agg. Child Abuse.

Plus, her post-arrest statements are what resulted in the providing false info to a LEO charges (misdemeanors).

BBM

What I find lacking in this thread is Forensics and what the state has. There has to be something the state feels is compelling enough to bring on DP.

I am hopeing that Forensics in this case will prove beyond a reasonable doubt what has happened here.

Unlike cases prior to the mid 90's where there wasn't enough past case history to support evidence of coffin bugs, et all (in my very layman terms) I would think there is something there for the Prosecution to continue moving forward as planned.

I would like your opinion on that.

Thank you

 

[JBean]

snipped for emphasis

In the court room there will be the other side, the prosecution's side. Not just the obvious side of the defence. IMO.

LOL but thank you for mentioning this. I am of the mind that I would like to see the whole case, including the defense, before making up my mind as to not only innocence or guilt for the current charges, but what can be proven in court. But it does seem at times that when the discussion turns to the prosecutorial problems or weaknesses in the states case the conversation is shot down pretty quickly.

 

[rhornsby]

Fair enough. Yes, many things in this world don't make sense. But to JQ Public, me , the potential juror sitting in a court room , I would use common sense to form my opinion.

And you will probably be surprised by this , but if she walks, she walks. I don't think she's gonna walk. I'm thinking LWOP best case scenario. And this will REALLY surprise you. It gives me no pleasure to see her sentenced. She's a baby. She's a sick baby for sure. But I do believe in redemption.

Maybe just a technicality, but in Florida, Life means Life.

There is no LWOP or LWP. There is Life, which sentences you to die in prison.

 

[rhornsby]

Ahh, Sir, not what I asked. I asked what you thought of an attorney with this background.

I asked for your observations, not what the state can prove, or whether it is material to the case.

Quite honestly, I think this has no bearing on Caylee. sadly to some, I'm not looking at the micros's of this. I'm interested in the macro's as well.

I guess what I'm asking is does the case require a more skillful attorney.

And sneakily what you think of Baez at el.

I think the same thing you do of a person like that; probably worse because he actually allowed himself to be seen in a Miata.

 

[RR0004]

if they had it, they were obligated to release it to Baez...in a specific time frame from receiving it. They haven't. (IMHO)

I thought the FBI isn't part of that deal. They can hold onto test results, no? At least until they're finished, right? I know they've released some of their results to the State...but to me, it didn't seem to include everything we know they took to examine. IOW...somethings appeared to be missing from the reports.

 

[RR0004]

there are things that im sure all of us are not aware of THAT are not "completed" yet

LOL...just saw this...robotdog is on it, once again!

 

[JBean]

Maybe just a technicality, but in Florida, Life means Life.

There is no LWOP or LWP. There is Life, which sentences you to die in prison.

That is more than a technicality and very interesting.

 

[RR0004]

25 new motions filed today (I be loving me some Angel Who Cares and insist Tricia pay her double time for working on the day after Thanksgiving), listed below (motions and memos in support of . . . ).

Just white noise or anything of note?

Declare Florida Statute Section 921.141 Unconstitutional Under Ring vs. Arizona

Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied

Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case

For a Statement of Particulars Providing Notice of Aggravating Circumstances

Objection to the Standard Jury Instruction on Reasonable Doubt

To Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority)

To Declare 921.141 Florida Statutes Unconstitutional Because it Improperly Shifts Burdens of Proof to the Defendant, Thereby Creating a Presumption of Death

To Prohibit any Reference to the Jury's Role at the Penalty Phase Being 'Advisory' or to the Jury's Penalty Verdict as Being a 'Recommendation'

To Declare Florida Statute 921.141 Unconstitutional Due to its Failure to Narrow the Scope of the Death Penalty

For Jury Instructions Correctly Defining "Premeditation"

Blaise

...and having access to AL's seminar audio I knew to expect these motions...challenging Florida's death penalty is a monumental undertaking. Will poor Caylee ever see justice in this decade?

 

[mitzi]

if they had it, they were obligated to release it to Baez...in a specific time frame from receiving it. They haven't. (IMHO)

I agree with the above in bold, but it's possible that the FBI is holding some discovery back from the State (in a physical sense), and in that case, the state may have the info to get a guilty charge, but just don't have to turn the "actual" paperwork over to the defense, because they don't actually have it "in hand". At least that is what I am hoping.

 

[mitzi]

With all due respect, I would like to point out that this is simply one viewpoint and one analysis. You have not heard the other side, the other arguments. The man comes on here pushing his viewpoint and opinion, but that doesn't make it the truth or even valid. Unless I can ponder a rebuttal to his arguments, I am not going to be swayed by one seeming authoritative point of view.

In the court room there will be the other side, the prosecution's side. Not just the obvious side of the defence. IMO.

ITA.

Mr. Hornsby, I have enjoyed having you here answering our questions. You seem like an intelligent attorney. I don't, however, agree with your treatment of Shaeffer. But aside from that, I have found your posts to be quite informative.

May I ask, respectfully, in your years as a defense attorney, how many murder cases have you defended, and what percentage of those did you get an aquittal? Also, are you death penalty qualified? Thank you.

 

[cyberborg]

Personally, I really don't think they have more.

Do I know that for a fact? No.

But I do know thus far, there is no smoking gun.

There was no smoking gun with SP yet I think the 'other' circumstantial evidence against KC is so much stronger. 31 days. ZFG story. No worries.