Legal Q&A Thread for R Hornsby

[nobull]

Would you mind explaining the piece of Florida law that says (summarized) that if a child is murdered while committing aggravated child abuse, the perp can be sentenced Murder 1? This is sticking in at least my mind (and I know others also.) Are we misunderstanding this piece of FL law? Could you briefly explain how this may relate to Casey? Thanks!

 

[JBean]

additional information from Hornsby for reading in this thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91987"]LYONS AUDIO TAPES and BS VIDEO GONE? Discussion with R HORNSBY here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame][ame][/ame]

 

[rhornsby]

Would you mind explaining the piece of Florida law that says (summarized) that if a child is murdered while committing aggravated child abuse, the perp can be sentenced Murder 1? This is sticking in at least my mind (and I know others also.) Are we misunderstanding this piece of FL law? Could you briefly explain how this may relate to Casey? Thanks!

That is basically called Felony Murder. So since it is Aggravated Child Abuse to torture, disfigure, or injure a child; it can be enhanced to First Degree Murder because it is assumed that the possibility of death was foreseeable when the underlying felony was committed.

 

[rhornsby]

Mr. Hornsby,

I could give a ratsa$$ about political correctness but some words are mean and unnecessary. Like this one.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith

I double apologize...

 

[MysticOne]

That is basically called Felony Murder. So since it is Aggravated Child Abuse to torture, disfigure, or injure a child; it can be enhanced to First Degree Murder because it is assumed that the possibility of death was foreseeable when the underlying felony was committed.

So are you saying that currently there is not enough evidence in the public to prove Aggravated Child Abuse, so therefore First Degree Murder is not applicable?

I understand, that we do not have all the evidence as of now, so you can't answer as to the possible outcome of the trial. I guess I am just asking without a confession, eye witness or very strong circumstantial evidence, at this point we don't truly even have Aggravated Child Abuse?

 

[jandkmom]

Do you take many pro bono cases? If so, approximately how many a year?

Are there any other people, besides KC, associated with this case that if they end up being charged that you would consider representing for free?

If you were representing KC, what tactic would you use to try to convince a jury that when she didn't report her daughter missing for 31 days that she didn't have anything to do with her murder?

What can you tell us how the multiple lawyers will interact in the trial? Who will be responsible for what? Have you tried cases with lawyers from out of state as co-counsel?

 

[RR0004]

That is basically called Felony Murder. So since it is Aggravated Child Abuse to torture, disfigure, or injure a child; it can be enhanced to First Degree Murder because it is assumed that the possibility of death was foreseeable when the underlying felony was committed.

So it seems that "assumption" differs from "speculation", correct? With the evidence of the duct tape placed around the skull, the jury would therefore be allowed to "assume" that Caylee was a victim of abuse?

 

[RR0004]

Mr. Hornsby,

I could give a ratsa$$ about political correctness but some words are mean and unnecessary. Like this one.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith

Thanks, Tricia! You always say it much better than I.

 

[whats the punch line]

You mentioned that you were going to blog on the check case, I look forward to the piece.

I'm going to assume that Judge Strickland will not grant a change of venue. Nor for such a case is it logical to import a jury. (what, maybe a full day in court?) And do you really want a jury to see the surveillance tapes?

That leaves Mr. Baez two choices.
1-plead out

2-Bench trial

I'm assuming a plea will amount to less time to serve, and the SAO would have some power to negotiate in the jail time in exchange for the plea.

If they deside to go the route of the bench trial, what do you think will occur?

ps I love when you elaborate.....

(oh, and the time already served? Which case will that apply to?)

 

[rhornsby]

So are you saying that currently there is not enough evidence in the public to prove Aggravated Child Abuse, so therefore First Degree Murder is not applicable?

I understand, that we do not have all the evidence as of now, so you can't answer as to the possible outcome of the trial. I guess I am just asking without a confession, eye witness or very strong circumstantial evidence, at this point we don't truly even have Aggravated Child Abuse?

You said it - I just happen to agree... For now.

 

[rhornsby]

You mentioned that you were going to blog on the check case, I look forward to the piece.

I'm going to assume that Judge Strickland will not grant a change of venue. Nor for such a case is it logical to import a jury. (what, maybe a full day in court?) And do you really want a jury to see the surveillance tapes?

That leaves Mr. Baez two choices.
1-plead out

2-Bench trial

I'm assuming a plea will amount to less time to serve, and the SAO would have some power to negotiate in the jail time in exchange for the plea.

If they deside to go the route of the bench trial, what do you think will occur?

ps I love when you elaborate.....

(oh, and the time already served? Which case will that apply to?)

Lets just say that we call what will unfold in the check fraud case a slooooooooow plea.

 

[cecybeans]

So are you saying that currently there is not enough evidence in the public to prove Aggravated Child Abuse, so therefore First Degree Murder is not applicable?

I understand, that we do not have all the evidence as of now, so you can't answer as to the possible outcome of the trial. I guess I am just asking without a confession, eye witness or very strong circumstantial evidence, at this point we don't truly even have Aggravated Child Abuse?

RH you gave a qualified agreement with the above for now but wouldn't even the least offensive end of the spectrum (leaving your child with an "imaginanny" and partying for a month OR not reporting an "accidental" death of a child) be considered aggravated child abuse? I would think that complete refusal of cooperation with LE in their investigation regarding Caylee's whereabouts could also be considered aggravated child abuse if that lack of cooperation had somehow actually led to Caylee's death.

 

[rhornsby]

RH you gave a qualified agreement with the above for now but wouldn't even the least offensive end of the spectrum (leaving your child with an "imaginanny" and partying for a month OR not reporting an "accidental" death of a child) be considered aggravated child abuse? I would think that complete refusal of cooperation with LE in their investigation regarding Caylee's whereabouts could also be considered aggravated child abuse if that lack of cooperation had somehow actually led to Caylee's death.

"If" - but the only problem is that we do not know how she died or when.

So no matter how despicable Casey Anthony's post-arrest conduct was, unless you can show that her non-cooperation contributed to Caylee's death, you can not use that conduct as a "legal" basis to convict of Agg. Child Abuse.

Plus, her post-arrest statements are what resulted in the providing false info to a LEO charges (misdemeanors).

 

[magic-cat]

"If" - but the only problem is that we do not know how she died or when.

So no matter how despicable Casey Anthony's post-arrest conduct was, unless you can show that her non-cooperation contributed to Caylee's death, you can not use that conduct as a "legal" basis to convict of Agg. Child Abuse.

Plus, her post-arrest statements are what resulted in the providing false info to a LEO charges (misdemeanors).

It IS true that we do not know of a certainty how exactly Caylee met her ultimate demise, however, we do not that it involved duct tape. The ME has clearly stated in her report that the duct tape was placed pre-decomp and by any scientific standard, that is pre-death. This same duct tape, which we DO know was placed on Caylee prior to her death, was also found on a gas can which had been in Casey's trunk and was collected from her parents and her home. This same duct tape, a very rare duct tape, discontinued years ago, was also seen on video of Caylee is missing posters, immediately following Casey Anthonys arrest. It is an easy process really to arrive at "beyond a reasonable doubt" with this information. And I do apologize, but any mother, or parent for that matter, who fails to report their child missing for 31 days is already guilty of aggravated child abuse before anything else ever occurred. When ones child is missing, every moment counts, and a parent who fails to report that IS grossly negligent, all else withstanding.

 

[mommy2]

"If" - but the only problem is that we do not know how she died or when.

So no matter how despicable Casey Anthony's post-arrest conduct was, unless you can show that her non-cooperation contributed to Caylee's death, you can not use that conduct as a "legal" basis to convict of Agg. Child Abuse.

Plus, her post-arrest statements are what resulted in the providing false info to a LEO charges (misdemeanors).

What about her pre-arrest conduct? (The text to her friend trying to cover up the smell, renting movies with the boyfriend, clubbing, lollipops, 31 days, 31 days, etc)

Do you think the jury will consider those circumstances?

 

[cecybeans]

JBean, I am still looking all over for that "Hunt" case that indicates it is immaterial whether duct tape is put on ante or post-mortem, it can be considered COD. I went through all the threads I could think of because the search function doesn't like the commonness of the word "hunt". If you have any suggestions, I'd sure appreciate it! TIA!

 

[JBean]

JBean, I am still looking all over for that "Hunt" case that indicates it is immaterial whether duct tape is put on ante or post-mortem, it can be considered COD. I went through all the threads I could think of because the search function doesn't like the commonness of the word "hunt". If you have any suggestions, I'd sure appreciate it! TIA!

I think you mean Huck?
But the ME has not stated a COD with any certainty at this point, I don't think.
Also remember that in the Huck case the charge was Felony murder not Premeditated murder IIRC.

 

[cecybeans]

I think you mean Huck?
But the ME has not stated a COD with any certainty at this point, I don't think.

Thanks! I knew I had it wrong! I think the point of Huck was that a corpse wrapped in duct tape makes COD immaterial or irrelevant in that it can be reasonably substituted as contributory.

 

[2goldfish]

I think you mean Huck?
But the ME has not stated a COD with any certainty at this point, I don't think.
Also remember that in the Huck case the charge was Felony murder not Premeditated murder IIRC.

no. "homicide of undetermined means"

 

[Olive Oyl]

I posted this question last night, but I believe it might have gotten overlooked. I'm curious so I would like to post it again. TIA!

Do you believe Dominic Casey had specific information as to the location of Caylee's remains from someone other than a psychic? Like Kronk he was in the area where they found Caylee many times too!