Legal Questions for our VERIFIED Lawyers #3

[BaileyandBella]

Just wondering....thanks

 

[semisweet]

I would like to know if ICA has the right to testify, since it's a DP case. even if her DT strongly recommends that she doesn't. TIA!

 

[john's mom]

I know she will get automatic appeals if she gets the death penalty, but will she get automatic appeal if she gets LWOP or some other sentence?

 

[beachbumming]

I would like to know if ICA has the right to testify, since it's a DP case. even if her DT strongly recommends that she doesn't. TIA!

If ICA insists on testifying she has a right to do so.

 

[AZlawyer]

IS this the rule in Florida that you know for sure? Because I remember I think that the State said we want to be there when they examine KC and the Defense after speaking with Judge and State, said they will not be using the experts. The defense has never claimed insanity as a defense and the Judge was hesitant because it would be going to state of mind which he was not allowing.

The rules in Florida provide for the State to conduct an examination where an insanity defense is being offered (that is not happening here), or where mental mitigation evidence is being offered during the penalty phase (we're not up to that part yet in this case), but say nothing about what happens if mental health evidence is offered during the guilt phase to explain how post-incident behavior is consistent with innocence rather than guilt.

The case law basically says that it is impossible for the State to effectively rebut mental health testimony based on an examination of the defendant without being allowed to have the State's expert also conduct such an examination.

Here, the new proposed defense expert will not be testifying based on an examination of Casey, so the State has no right to have Casey examined.

By the way HHJP never said he would not allow state of mind evidence--he said he would not allow evidence of "diminished mental capacity" (which no one is arguing in this case).

Schaeffer was speaking about stipulations and he mentioned the defense stipulating to the truth that KC did make searches. Do you know about this? I cannot be sure if he was using it as an example or if it happened. PLEASE

I thought she had just stipulated to her parents' work time records being admitted--which show she was the only one not at work for at least one of the Google-searching time periods.

At the end of Court today,LDB asked HH to request the DT give the list of cases they would be using, to the State. HHJP said "the law is the law" without answering specifically. What did he mean? Does the DT have to turn these over or not? I heard CM say he would work on them tonight and give them to the State in the morning,but I'm still not clear if HH was requiring it.

I think he meant that the DT does not have to turn over their case law in advance, and the State could do its own research.

In what order will the verdicts be read?
Just wondering....thanks

Usually they start at the "top"...with the most serious charges.

I know she will get automatic appeals if she gets the death penalty, but will she get automatic appeal if she gets LWOP or some other sentence?

No.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Hi and thank you -
The sealed evidence that was presented in court (the ones where the State just had the witnesses identify as being sealed by them) - do the Jurors get to open those later and examine during deliberations?

 

[MissJames]

The rules in Florida provide for the State to conduct an examination where an insanity defense is being offered (that is not happening here), or where mental mitigation evidence is being offered during the penalty phase (we're not up to that part yet in this case), but say nothing about what happens if mental health evidence is offered during the guilt phase to explain how post-incident behavior is consistent with innocence rather than guilt.

The case law basically says that it is impossible for the State to effectively rebut mental health testimony based on an examination of the defendant without being allowed to have the State's expert also conduct such an examination.

Here, the new proposed defense expert will not be testifying based on an examination of Casey, so the State has no right to have Casey examined.

By the way HHJP never said he would not allow state of mind evidence--he said he would not allow evidence of "diminished mental capacity" (which no one is arguing in this case).



I thought she had just stipulated to her parents' work time records being admitted--which show she was the only one not at work for at least one of the Google-searching time periods.



I think he meant that the DT does not have to turn over their case law in advance, and the State could do its own research.



Usually they start at the "top"...with the most serious charges.



No.

BBM
Thank you ! I just could not tell who he was directing that too.
I also was getting paranoid the lawyers had me on ignore:innocent:

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi and thank you -
The sealed evidence that was presented in court (the ones where the State just had the witnesses identify as being sealed by them) - do the Jurors get to open those later and examine during deliberations?

Most likely they will be allowed to open and look at things (with gloves).

BBM
Thank you ! I just could not tell who he was directing that too.
I also was getting paranoid the lawyers had me on ignore:innocent:

No way, MissJames!

 

[Katprint]

1. Interrogation at Universal Studios. The issue will be whether LE should have Mirandized ICA prior to questioning her. The court may find that LE should have read ICA her rights, but I don't think a conviction is overturned because of it.

2. Dr. Vass'. There always has to be a first for science. I don't think issue results in court overturning conviction.

3. Video of Cayllee, skull and duct tape. I don't think court finds too prejudicial.

4. K-9s. Won't be a problem.

5. Ineffective assistance of counsel based on untimely objections to jail tapes. Not sure about this one. If the court finds that the outcome of the trial would have been different if tapes were excluded, could be basis for overturning conviction.

These are just some off the top of my head. I'll post more if I think of them.

+1 to beachbumming distinguishing between a potential appellate issue and a successful appeal.

It may also be worth mentioning that even if an appeal is successful, the remedy is usually a new trial. Casey is a flight risk due to her lack of ties to the community (no job, doesn't own any property e.g. real estate, bank accounts, strong likelihood of conviction if previously convicted, etc.) so she would most likely stay in jail awaiting retrial. I don't think we've seen the kind of egregious wrongdoing on the part of the prosecution (waterboarding a confession, falsifying evidence, jury tampering) which would cause an appellate court to actually reverse the verdict with prejudice (i.e. no further prosecution on those charges) rather than merely overturn/vacate the verdict and order a new trial. From what I have seen, defendants tend to do worse the second time around. By way of example, the Menendez brothers and Phil Spector had worse outcomes.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sorry is this has already been asked and answered, but I'm trying to satisfy my mind on something, and since my reading of law is NOT all that good, I'm hoping I can get one of our lawyers to weigh in on this for me.

From what I'm reading regarding FL's requirements for First Degree murder, there does not have to be premeditation or intent. If someone dies (in this case a child) during the commision of a crime against them (in this case aggravated child abuse), doesn't that also fit the requirements for First Degree Murder under FL law?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The sticker empty sheets and the heart sticker were introduced into evidence. Will the jury be able to test those and see if they fit during deliberations?

The cans with the stinking carpet samples in them are being put into evidence today. Can the jury open them during deliberations?

 

[Macushla]

HHJP was very firm in his instructions to the jury about waiting to hear all the evidence presented before making up their minds and to NOT talk about the trial with one another before deliberations began.

I was shocked yesterday when HHJP said the jurors wanted to see the heart shaped sticker AND they requested a list of all the evidence to be provided to them when they start deliberations. To me this sounds like at least 2 of them have been discussing the case already. I was really surprised that neither CM nor JB jumped up and called for an immediate mistrial due to jury misconduct then and there.

Am I making too much of the jury's request?

 

[okiedokietoo]

Howdy and Thank you -
If the cell phone pings (or any specific case evidence) has not been entered into court evidence, can it be discussed by the State during Defense Case - i.e. to impeach or whatever the terminolgy. (Hope this makes sense)

 

[ZsaZsa]

Someone on another thread asked this question, but I will borrow it as it sounded interesting.
If the Jury asks to smell the carpet/odor will they be allowed to do so?.

 

[reeseeva]

After all these days of testimony, I find myself needing to go back over testimony and evidence, and that's with listening and discussing this case everyday, which the jury has not been allowed to do. My question is, is the jury allowed to request any and all testimony and evidence to review, once deliberations begin, especially where it's been reported that not many of them took notes.

Also, can they request to listen to any audio portions of the trial, such as the 911 calls and jallhouse calls?

TIA

 

[Solace]

If the DT withdrew their expert prior to the state having the opportunity to depose them, DT would not be allowed to call them. I guess if the DT decided the expert was extremely necessary HHJP could allow time for SA to depose him/her. I don't see that happening.

Thanks so much - you answered my question perfectly. Appreciate it.

 

[Mom who cares]

My apologies if this has been asked: Does the jury know Casey was not initially read her Miranda rights?

 

[mombomb]

If the Defense gets up tomorrow morning and says they are not putting on a CIC - which some THs have said they should do, but won't because they have to back up their crazy theory given in OS, would the State then be required to immediately give their Closing Arguments? In your experience, do they already have one written in case that happens? I can't imagine it would look good if the State was not prepared and the Jury had to go back to their hotel for a second day.

Thanks so much for your patience with my questions:innocent:

 

[Solace]

I heard yesterday that there was a "bombshell" regarding a missing laundry bag - that Cindy said that on the stand. I can't find it anywhere (supposedly she said one bag was missing - they had four). Can anyone help PLEASE.

 

[Hisimage]

Thanks to you all for your willingness to answer questions.
My question would be: what happens to the alternate jurors who have been through the duration of this trial. I would think when it comes time for deliberations they would not be able to participate. Are they allowed to at least sit in on the deliberations?
Thanks!