Legal Questions for our Verified Lawyers #4

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maybe this has been asked before. if so direct me to the post:

why was casey given time off for good behavior even though she passed those notes? i would assume it's because good behavior is defined in a particular way.

Yeah, I had this question too. I assume that the "good behavior" time is awarded automatically unless some process is initiated at the time the "bad behavior" actually occurs to prevent the awarding of the time.
 
maybe this has been asked before. if so direct me to the post:

why was casey given time off for good behavior even though she passed those notes? i would assume it's because good behavior is defined in a particular way.

Yeah, I had this question too. I assume that the "good behavior" time is awarded automatically unless some process is initiated at the time the "bad behavior" actually occurs to prevent the awarding of the time.


The forfeitureof good/gain time is done pursuant to statutory guidelines.

That's the process that AZlawyer is talking about.

It's not because the actions of the inmate did or did not fall within acceptable guidelines. It's because there is a forfeiture process with a lot of hoops. No one did any jumping through aforementioned hoops. :Banane43:

From FL Statute 944.28:

....


b) A prisoner’s right to earn gain-time during all or any part of the remainder of the sentence or sentences under which he or she is imprisoned may be declared forfeited because of the seriousness of a single instance of misconduct or because of the seriousness of an accumulation of instances of misconduct.
(c) The method of declaring a forfeiture under paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) shall be as follows: A written charge shall be prepared, which shall specify each instance of misconduct upon which it is based and the approximate date thereof. A copy of such charge shall be delivered to the prisoner, and he or she shall be given notice of a hearing before the disciplinary committee created under the authorization of rules heretofore or hereafter adopted by the department for the institution in which he or she is confined. The prisoner shall be present at the hearing. If at such hearing the prisoner pleads guilty to the charge or if the committee determines that the prisoner is guilty thereof upon the basis of proof presented at such hearing, it shall find him or her guilty. If the committee considers that all or part of the prisoner’s gain-time and the prisoner’s right to earn gain-time during all or any part of the sentence or sentences under which he or she is imprisoned shall be forfeited, it shall so recommend in its written report. Such report shall be presented to the warden of the institution, who may approve such recommendation in whole or in part by endorsing such approval on the report. In the event of approval, the warden shall forward the report to the department. Thereupon, the department may, in its discretion, declare the forfeiture thus approved by the warden or any specified part thereof.



Soooooo,
In order for the letter-note-I need a penpal incident(s) to trigger a forfeiture of gaintime:
There has to be a written complaint about the incident.
Prisoner is given notice of the complaint.:argue:
Prisoner gets notice of hearing to be held before disciplinary committee.
If there is a guilty admission or proof of the violation, committee can recommend forfeiture of gain/good time. :nono:
This written recommendation then goes to the warden,:phone: who can approve it (the forfeiture) in whole or in part.
Not done yet. :run:
Warden forwards it up the chain for final approval.
And so it goes.

Since none of that happened, there was no forfeiture.

MH
sharing an opinion:wolf::seeya:
 
Hope I am not asking something that has been asked before... but now that DCF has concluded that Casey is responsible for Caylees death by failure to protect... can a civil suit be filed? If so, since Caylees father is unknown... could George and/or Cindy Anthony file the suit against Casey since they have been deemed next of kin by the courts? (Not that they would-just curious if they could). Thanks for your time, you guys are great!
 
Hope I am not asking something that has been asked before... but now that DCF has concluded that Casey is responsible for Caylees death by failure to protect... can a civil suit be filed? If so, since Caylees father is unknown... could George and/or Cindy Anthony file the suit against Casey since they have been deemed next of kin by the courts? (Not that they would-just curious if they could). Thanks for your time, you guys are great!

The DCF report would not be of any help in a civil suit.

In any event, George and Cindy do not have standing to file the suit. The statute in question does not allow just any "next of kin" to file--besides, G&C were determined to be "next of kin" solely for purposes of the rule of exclusion of witnesses from trial, not for any other purpose.
 
The DCF report would not be of any help in a civil suit.

In any event, George and Cindy do not have standing to file the suit. The statute in question does not allow just any "next of kin" to file--besides, G&C were determined to be "next of kin" solely for purposes of the rule of exclusion of witnesses from trial, not for any other purpose.


I take it no criminal charges can arise out of this report? :innocent:
 
The DCF report would not be of any help in a civil suit.

In any event, George and Cindy do not have standing to file the suit. The statute in question does not allow just any "next of kin" to file--besides, G&C were determined to be "next of kin" solely for purposes of the rule of exclusion of witnesses from trial, not for any other purpose.[/QUOTE


I take it no criminal charges can arise out of this report? :innocent:

The DCF report is just that----a report.

It doesn't change the facts or create new evidence. It's really not a bombshell document. Really, who is shocked by these findings?
I think there might be some confusion if we view the findings as evidence to be used to further a cause.

I would think of it more as an analysis by a state agency...an analysis of the evidence which already exists.

I cannot see anything arising from it other than more frustration.:censored:

MH
with an opinion:wolf:
 
I am out of bounds here so will post this final thought for lawyer consideration. Perhaps we need to consider what the statutes consider the definition of a prisoner to be and that is why we are having trouble finding specific authority as it pertains to pretrial inmates:

IOW< if the pretrial inmates qualify as prisoners then then the statutes would apply to them as written.

(6)&#8195;“Prisoner” means any person who is under civil or criminal arrest and in the lawful custody of any law enforcement official, or any person committed to or detained in any municipal or county jail or state prison, prison farm, or penitentiary, or to the custody of the department pursuant to lawful authority.

ttp://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0900-0999/0944/0944.html

That's actually an arguable theory.
Statutes do give the good time to "prisoners." I have no doubt that Casey was per the law, one of those prisoners.
But, because the statutes refer either to the sentenced prisoners or to the sentence of the prisoners (might be paraphrasing) when referring to good time,
I'm just thinking that the pre-trial detainee, while also a prisoner, (I agree with you) cannot qualify as a sentenced prisoner, nor a prisoner with a sentence nor a prisoner serving a sentence from which we can deduct anything.
I'm almost tempted to throw in: nor a partridge in a pear tree (since I have analyzed this to death and still have no concrete answer)...but that might get me in trouble so I most definitely will not do that.:innocent:

MH with an opinion
:wolf::seeya:
 
This has probably been asked and answered before, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I would ask again.

What would be the consequence to FICA if she violates her probation? Does she then get tossed into the county jail to complete her sentence (and what is the sentence that is hanging over her?) If more than a year, then she would not be allowed to serve it in the County jail - I don't believe. Also, is a VOP an automatic go to jail or does the system allow leeway?

Thank you so much to the sage lawyers here
 
I tried to post this as a new thread, but, alas, it didn't show up..:tears:

So, I was wondering if the state can nail KC on other charges for things that happened after Caylee died like:

Concealing a dead body.

Creating an unmarked grave.

Tampering with or damaging a dead body. , (bagging, disposing of improperly etc.) ??????

I think double jeopardy applies only to charging her with the same crime that happened at the same time right? For example, a woman serves 15 years for killing her husband. The husband turns up after the woman has served her sentence and the man is alive and well, but has been in hiding for 15 years. A year later, she really kills him. She can be tried and charged again for the same crime (killing her husband) because the crime actually occurred at a different time and place than the original fake crime.

So, what I am saying is that KC can still be charged for her actions related to mistreating Caylee's body, right? I think Florida has a law against tampering with or disturbing an unmarked grave. I think this law also includes creating an unmarked grave. Well, Caylee's grave was certainly unmarked. I actually think this crime is a felony. I may be wrong...

So, any input would be great!!! I just think there are so many things she did that happened after Caylee died, that they can still pin on her.

Is there any reason why thay haven't? Or am I way off base assuming that they can???

TIA
 
This has probably been asked and answered before, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I would ask again.

What would be the consequence to FICA if she violates her probation? Does she then get tossed into the county jail to complete her sentence (and what is the sentence that is hanging over her?) If more than a year, then she would not be allowed to serve it in the County jail - I don't believe. Also, is a VOP an automatic go to jail or does the system allow leeway?

Thank you so much to the sage lawyers here

She could be sent to jail for whatever sentence HHJS could have imposed in the first place. But that is not automatic.

I tried to post this as a new thread, but, alas, it didn't show up..:tears:

So, I was wondering if the state can nail KC on other charges for things that happened after Caylee died like:

Concealing a dead body.

Creating an unmarked grave.

Tampering with or damaging a dead body. , (bagging, disposing of improperly etc.) ??????

I think double jeopardy applies only to charging her with the same crime that happened at the same time right? For example, a woman serves 15 years for killing her husband. The husband turns up after the woman has served her sentence and the man is alive and well, but has been in hiding for 15 years. A year later, she really kills him. She can be tried and charged again for the same crime (killing her husband) because the crime actually occurred at a different time and place than the original fake crime.

So, what I am saying is that KC can still be charged for her actions related to mistreating Caylee's body, right? I think Florida has a law against tampering with or disturbing an unmarked grave. I think this law also includes creating an unmarked grave. Well, Caylee's grave was certainly unmarked. I actually think this crime is a felony. I may be wrong...

So, any input would be great!!! I just think there are so many things she did that happened after Caylee died, that they can still pin on her.

Is there any reason why thay haven't? Or am I way off base assuming that they can???

TIA

No, Casey cannot be charged with any crime arising out of the same set of events as the other crimes for which she was acquitted.
 
She could be sent to jail for whatever sentence HHJS could have imposed in the first place. But that is not automatic.



No, Casey cannot be charged with any crime arising out of the same set of events as the other crimes for which she was acquitted.

Thanks for your response. That's terrible...

But, here's the thing - If, by KC's own admission, there was no crime (the kid just drowned, right?), then couldn't the prosecution argue that the only crimes here happened after the child innocently died?

So, if a bank robber robs a bank and then uses the money to buy drugs, he can't be charged later for buying the drugs if he was acquitted of robbing the bank?

Just hanging onto hope here, lol.
 
Thanks for your response. That's terrible...

But, here's the thing - If, by KC's own admission, there was no crime (the kid just drowned, right?), then couldn't the prosecution argue that the only crimes here happened after the child innocently died?

So, if a bank robber robs a bank and then uses the money to buy drugs, he can't be charged later for buying the drugs if he was acquitted of robbing the bank?

Just hanging onto hope here, lol.


As to what AzLawyer said, DITTO to the nth degree.

Therefore, No, the prosecutors wouldn't, shouldn't and couldn't do that.

The bank robbery is a different situation. You rob the bank. There are other crimes maybe involved in that scenario. They would all be handled at the trial for the robbery...that's how it's usually done.

Buying the drugs is a different crime, different transactional series of events.

The acquittal on the robbery does not generate a lifetime get-out-of-jail-free pass.
The acquitted bank robber:put em up: can later be charged, tried, and convicted on the charges involving controlled substance crimes.

If it cheers you up, :therethere: the same deal applies to Casey.

If she makes money from her story, and takes that money to procure drugs,
she can be charged , tried and convicted on the drug charges. Maybe she will be cell mates (:iamashamed: :iamashamed:)with the fictional acquitted bankrobber.

However, if Casey's (just by way of example) drug arrest happens while she is doing the probation, there is a high likelyhood that she will be violated and incarcerated on the VOP, before the drug offenses have made it through the criminal system.

MH
:wolf:
sharing an opinion
 
The judge reads in a Orlando newspaper that a poll conducted by E-Market Research ststes that 94% of those surveyed dislike Casey Anthony. Judge Perry uses this "evidence" to justify keeping Casey's probation address sealed to protect her. Was it proper judicial proceedure to referance this poll in his ruling? Maybe we should use pollsters to determine guilt or innocence instead of a trial.
 
As to what AzLawyer said, DITTO to the nth degree.

Therefore, No, the prosecutors wouldn't, shouldn't and couldn't do that.

The bank robbery is a different situation. You rob the bank. There are other crimes maybe involved in that scenario. They would all be handled at the trial for the robbery...that's how it's usually done.

Buying the drugs is a different crime, different transactional series of events.

The acquittal on the robbery does not generate a lifetime get-out-of-jail-free pass.
The acquitted bank robber:put em up: can later be charged, tried, and convicted on the charges involving controlled substance crimes.

If it cheers you up, :therethere: the same deal applies to Casey.

If she makes money from her story, and takes that money to procure drugs,
she can be charged , tried and convicted on the drug charges. Maybe she will be cell mates (:iamashamed: :iamashamed:)with the fictional acquitted bankrobber.

However, if Casey's (just by way of example) drug arrest happens while she is doing the probation, there is a high likelyhood that she will be violated and incarcerated on the VOP, before the drug offenses have made it through the criminal system.

MH
:wolf:
sharing an opinion

Thanks for explaining it, but, I am still hanging on here...So, the guy robs the bank - that is the main crime, like KC murdering her baby is the main crime.

The guy goes immediately out to the streets to buy oodles of drugs with his newly-stolen monies. The catalyst for the 2nd crime is the first crime.

Now, I think he would be charged in his trial for the robbery with things like illegally obtained firearms, shooting a police officer in the foot during the commission of the crime, damage to the bank property, using a stolen vehicle as a get away car, fleeing from the police, etc.

I don't think he would be charged with what he did with the money after he got the money, but before arrest. I can't see the drug purchase listed as part of the charges in the bank robbery trial.

It is the same thing with KC. She had a dead body because the body was a product of a crime. The robber had money that was a product of his crime.

What they each do with these products after the crime are not the same thing as doing the crime itself. The robber bought drugs with his product and KC mistreated and illegally disposed of her product.

Am I making any sense here? lol.

So, what happens after the main crime is not the same thing as the crime itself.

See, what is fuzzy for me is that it would lead me to believe that KC can commit any number of additional crimes, as long as those crimes would not have been committed unless Caylee was dead. Therefore, anything criminal she does from here on out, as long as it is a direct result of Caylee's death is considered double jeopardy? Say that's not so.

And where does it end? If she would have kept the body in a meat locker for the whole time KC was in jail awaiting trial, could she then stuff Caylee in a bag and throw her in the forest and still not be able to be convicted for doing so simply because she was acquitted of the actual murder of Caylee and that would be a related crime?

Thank you for bearing with me here. I have this issue stuck in my head and I am trying to wrap my little brain around it before I can be at peace, lol.

So there is no chance then of this happening?
 
Couple of questions.
When DT take this HHJP probation order to an appellate court, can they refuse even to hear it if it has no merit.
Could they put a temporary stay on it. And for how long.

If the probation stands and if a serious violation occurs, could those 7 charges on the back burner get sentences attached. Would the original Judge Strickland handle that.
Could that result in several years of prison. Can the DT even appeal such ruling as a result of a VOP.
 
In HHJP's probation order, he cited 12 cases from FL (some from appellate court), 1 OH case, and 1 from the US Supreme Court as arguments to the DT's case.

Based on his findings, what do you think the FL appellate court will do with the DT's appeal?

I know you can't be sure, but having your legal opinion is very important to many of us and I greatly appreciate all that you do and value your opinion highly.

Thank You!!
 
Thanks for explaining it, but, I am still hanging on here...So, the guy robs the bank - that is the main crime, like KC murdering her baby is the main crime.

The guy goes immediately out to the streets to buy oodles of drugs with his newly-stolen monies. The catalyst for the 2nd crime is the first crime.

Now, I think he would be charged in his trial for the robbery with things like illegally obtained firearms, shooting a police officer in the foot during the commission of the crime, damage to the bank property, using a stolen vehicle as a get away car, fleeing from the police, etc.

I don't think he would be charged with what he did with the money after he got the money, but before arrest. I can't see the drug purchase listed as part of the charges in the bank robbery trial.

It is the same thing with KC. She had a dead body because the body was a product of a crime. The robber had money that was a product of his crime.

What they each do with these products after the crime are not the same thing as doing the crime itself. The robber bought drugs with his product and KC mistreated and illegally disposed of her product.

Am I making any sense here? lol.

So, what happens after the main crime is not the same thing as the crime itself.

See, what is fuzzy for me is that it would lead me to believe that KC can commit any number of additional crimes, as long as those crimes would not have been committed unless Caylee was dead. Therefore, anything criminal she does from here on out, as long as it is a direct result of Caylee's death is considered double jeopardy? Say that's not so.

And where does it end? If she would have kept the body in a meat locker for the whole time KC was in jail awaiting trial, could she then stuff Caylee in a bag and throw her in the forest and still not be able to be convicted for doing so simply because she was acquitted of the actual murder of Caylee and that would be a related crime?

Thank you for bearing with me here. I have this issue stuck in my head and I am trying to wrap my little brain around it before I can be at peace, lol.

So there is no chance then of this happening?


Well then, :yourock: because you are trying to ask the same question in a different way in order to get a different result.

Believe me, I'm on your side!

But again, I have to echo that I agree with what Azlawyer said to the nth degree and also to infinity.

I see what you are saying in the question, but there are subtle differences between the bank robber with the drugs and the murderer with the body.

I have to mention as an aside, lesson for bank robbers included in your question.i.e. it is never a good idea to interrupt the frenzied getaway to do some casual shopping:escape:.......for drugs or anything else. Well, maybe pretty shoes.
Anyway, back to the subtle difference:

The committing of a bank robbery does not always necessarily include the factual existence of drugs.
On the other hand, the commission of a murder, always, 100 % of the time, ends with at least one death. There is a body. Whatever happens to the body, the essence of murder is the unlawful taking of a life.
Now the essence of bank robbery does not have any elements suggesting controlled substances.
You can have a robbery without drugs--oodles or not.
You cannot have the murder without the proof that someone dies.
Since the elements needed to prove the bank robbery are different from the elements of a drug offense,
the robber will have separate charges delineating the robbery and then the drug stuff.
But in your murderer example, you have to prove the element of the death in order to prosecute the murder. That death presupposes the existence of a body.
Therefore, whatever flows from the disposal, the hiding, or otherwise involves the body is going to be subject matter that should be included at the murder trial.
It's because the elements of the crimes are "commingled." There are intrinically interconnected. Not so for the robbery/drug incidents.

You don't need a drug to prove a bank robbery.
You do need a dead body (whether decomposed or otherwise) to prove a murder occurred.
Yes you can prove a murder in Court without the recovery of the body.
But it is still essential that the jury find that a death occurred.

I hope I have explained it more clearly.

MH sharing an opinion:wolf:
 
Well then, :yourock: because you are trying to ask the same question in a different way in order to get a different result.

Believe me, I'm on your side!

But again, I have to echo that I agree with what Azlawyer said to the nth degree and also to infinity.

I see what you are saying in the question, but there are subtle differences between the bank robber with the drugs and the murderer with the body.

I have to mention as an aside, lesson for bank robbers included in your question.i.e. it is never a good idea to interrupt the frenzied getaway to do some casual shopping:escape:.......for drugs or anything else. Well, maybe pretty shoes.
Anyway, back to the subtle difference:

The committing of a bank robbery does not always necessarily include the factual existence of drugs.
On the other hand, the commission of a murder, always, 100 % of the time, ends with at least one death. There is a body. Whatever happens to the body, the essence of murder is the unlawful taking of a life.
Now the essence of bank robbery does not have any elements suggesting controlled substances.
You can have a robbery without drugs--oodles or not.
You cannot have the murder without the proof that someone dies.
Since the elements needed to prove the bank robbery are different from the elements of a drug offense,
the robber will have separate charges delineating the robbery and then the drug stuff.
But in your murderer example, you have to prove the element of the death in order to prosecute the murder. That death presupposes the existence of a body.
Therefore, whatever flows from the disposal, the hiding, or otherwise involves the body is going to be subject matter that should be included at the murder trial.
It's because the elements of the crimes are "commingled." There are intrinically interconnected. Not so for the robbery/drug incidents.

You don't need a drug to prove a bank robbery.
You do need a dead body (whether decomposed or otherwise) to prove a murder occurred.
Yes you can prove a murder in Court without the recovery of the body.
But it is still essential that the jury find that a death occurred.

I hope I have explained it more clearly.

MH sharing an opinion:wolf:

No, no - :yourock:because I think you finally explained it to me in a way I can understand! Thank you for that!!! :blowkiss:


It is still a shame and it seems like there should be something else we can do.

Hey, can Cindy and her mom still get her for stealing money from them?? As if that were going to happen, lol.

Ok, I'll keep thinking and be back with more questions. Thanks again!
 
Sorry if this has been asked and answered already.....
Is there any way to charge someone in this case for abuse of a corpse, unlawful disposal of a corpse or anything along those lines to get to the bottom of how/where Caylee was placed and by whom?

It sure bothers me that no one will pay for that, whether Caylee's death was an accident or murder, she certainly didn't deserve what happened to her remains after her death.


ETA: I guess what's behind my question is that JB was allowed to stand up and give that opening statement to "explain" why Casey acted like she did......if it truly was an accident, why not also tell us who did what with her body after Caylee died?
 
The judge reads in a Orlando newspaper that a poll conducted by E-Market Research ststes that 94% of those surveyed dislike Casey Anthony. Judge Perry uses this "evidence" to justify keeping Casey's probation address sealed to protect her. Was it proper judicial proceedure to referance this poll in his ruling? Maybe we should use pollsters to determine guilt or innocence instead of a trial.

Well, it was Baez/Mason who submitted the poll as evidence--the judge just mentioned that they had submitted it. I think the judge was doing what we call "taking judicial notice" that there are people who want Casey dead. ;) He can do that if he thinks it's so obvious that no evidence (no REAL evidence anyway) is needed.

No, no - :yourock:because I think you finally explained it to me in a way I can understand! Thank you for that!!! :blowkiss:


It is still a shame and it seems like there should be something else we can do.

Hey, can Cindy and her mom still get her for stealing money from them?? As if that were going to happen, lol.

Ok, I'll keep thinking and be back with more questions. Thanks again!

I think we checked on that and the statute of limitations had expired.
 

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