Lies point us to the truth #2

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

If JonBenet's snatching pineapple from Burke had been the catalyst for the initial attack, the parents would have known of its importance, as BR had to tell what occurred. They'd remove the bowl, and would have been prepared better to answers questions after the autopsy. Instead, they wound up with an unlikely timeline of their own devising.

proust20,
Perhaps it wasn’t the/or the only catalyst.

 

[Assassino]

This seems to be the main thread where people debate/discuss the family involvement? Wanted to share some thoughts. And anyone can make corrections to things I got wrong, things I missed, something that doesn't make sense based on details I've missed, etc.

First of before I do, I wanted to state a few things. I have not obsessively pored over every detail of this case, so if my theories are based on some facts I missed I don't have correctly, I'll do a preemptive "my bad" on that. Also: I am not adamant in this theory. I'm always open to changing my mind if I'm correct on some facts or more information comes out. A lot of this stuff is all gut feelings anyway, right? It's a cold case, and with cold cases, as amateur online sleuths who just read about true crime as a hobby, sometimes you go with your gut.

I've gone back and forth on this case over the years, but my most recent position is feeling the family didn't do it. I've heard the arguments for it, and they definitely are strong and have merit, but several things have never sat right with me.

Hypothetically speaking, say either JR, BR, or PR were responsible. Unless it was a long premeditated act, meaning meticulous planning over days if not longer, if a spur of the moment incident were to occur that night, I can't see any parent being in that mental state... (and I don't just mean grief, but freaking out about what just occurred and the wide ranging ramifications of a killing/death)... being in a mental state to where they could think clearly enough to cover it up to such an elaborate degree. Now maybe they did, and this is a super rare instance. But 999/1000 times, if a parent killed a child, whether it be accidentally or purposefully, the cover up is going to be sloppy and amateurish. The Ramseys are not criminal masterminds who have many instances of practice in covering up homicides here. IMO, it's likely they would have done something like place JonBenet at the bottom of the stairs, call 911 and say she fell and hit her head and tried to cover it up that way. Or tried to hide the body outside somewhere and say she disappeared and they don't know what happened to their daughter.

But a garrote? A ransom note? Redressing a body? All while under the intense incredible stress and anxiety and panic of that particular situation? It's something I could never get past. In addition, how many everyday people even know what a garrote is? If you walked up to random people on the street and asked them what is was, how many would even know? I'm guessing very few, let alone how to make one. This seems like an instrument that someone would have experience making. That they're comfortable with using. Almost a "weapon of choice" type of a thing. Something someone has used before and has experience with using for a similar purpose. IMO someone in the process of committing an act like this for the first time and wanted an impromptu device would just grab a shoe lace or a phone cord or something similar. How many people would even think of a garrote in that moment without having it in the back of their mind as a go-to?

As for the ransom note, that's even more elaborate. That was a lengthy note that took a long time to write. For the same logic as above, while I can never rule anything out, I think it would be highly unlikely for a parent to be composed enough to write that letter under such distress.

I'm not saying these things supersede any of the other details about the case, just that those are things I've never been able to get past. Maybe one day that will prove to make me naive and JR and/or PR were just that cunning.

One thing I'm not certain of is if the genital trauma was ever declared to be pre or post mortem.

But I've heard a lot of different takes of this case over the years, and those are some thoughts I have. Maybe a bit more general than most, but things I've never been able to shake, even when I leaned the other way about this case.

I think now someone who knew the family was obsessed with JonBenet broke in and attempted to abduct her for sexual purposes. Something went wrong during the attempted abduction, that person killed her, and tried to stage it as an abduction to throw the scent off of it being a sexually motivated crime.

Any rebuttals, corrections welcome. Like I said, this isn't a case where I have memorized every detail and keep up with on a day to day or weekly basis. And no outcome if ever solved would surprise me.

 

[Eddie99]

Read the last few posts on here.

Its important to point out that when someone is questioned by the police, and the answers they give don't match with evidence; that is not same thing as "Contradicting a story".

There are also a number of bombastic claims that are stated as fact, that there is NO VERIFICATION for Whatsoever, except reddit.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Read the last few posts on here.

Its important to point out that when someone is questioned by the police, and the answers they give don't match with evidence; that is not same thing as "Contradicting a story".

There are also a number of bombastic claims that are stated as fact, that there is NO VERIFICATION for Whatsoever, except reddit.

Eddie99,

There are also a number of bombastic claims that are stated as fact, that there is NO VERIFICATION for Whatsoever, except reddit.

Would you mind giving us your examples of the bombastic claims which are stated as fact with no verification, please?

 

[Eddie99]

Let's see.

1. Housekeeper rumors.
2. Patsy rejecting JR sexual requests.
3. All 3 participated in staging.
4. Twisting the Q&A with police.
5. Simultaneously saying JR staged the scene. Then claiming he purposely set out to find the body and disturb the scene.
6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
7. Claiming as a statement of fact JR wiped JBR.
8. Claiming PR taking JBR to the doctor suggests she was molested.
9 At least 300 posts about the pineapple and underwear.
10. Claims that patsy handwriting matched the Ransom note.

Again, I'm not trying to start a fight, or be rude. I'm just not interested seeing this site become what reddit is.

Final point - It's hard to see how some of these things matter at all. But if some of the other things were even remotely true, BPD would have convicted the parents years ago.

 

[UKGuy]

Let's see.

1. Housekeeper rumors.
2. Patsy rejecting JR sexual requests.
3. All 3 participated in staging.
4. Twisting the Q&A with police.
5. Simultaneously saying JR staged the scene. Then claiming he purposely set out to find the body and disturb the scene.
6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
7. Claiming as a statement of fact JR wiped JBR.
8. Claiming PR taking JBR to the doctor suggests she was molested.
9 At least 300 posts about the pineapple and underwear.
10. Claims that patsy handwriting matched the Ransom note.

Again, I'm not trying to start a fight, or be rude. I'm just not interested seeing this site become what reddit is.

Final point - It's hard to see how some of these things matter at all. But if some of the other things were even remotely true, BPD would have convicted the parents years ago.

Eddie99,

1. Housekeeper rumors.
2. Patsy rejecting JR sexual requests.
3. All 3 participated in staging.
4. Twisting the Q&A with police.
5. Simultaneously saying JR staged the scene. Then claiming he purposely set out to find the body and disturb the scene.
6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
7. Claiming as a statement of fact JR wiped JBR.
8. Claiming PR taking JBR to the doctor suggests she was molested.
9 At least 300 posts about the pineapple and underwear.
10. Claims that patsy handwriting matched the Ransom note.

Most of the above can be substantiated with either forensic evidence or reference to Ramsey Statement.

1. Housekeeper rumors.
True.

2. Patsy rejecting JR sexual requests.
True, LHP posted her account online, its still available. She was disallowed from publishing her book, wrt GJ rules, etc

3. All 3 participated in staging.
True. No doubt about it. There is forensic evidence and postmortem statements made by the family, e.g. 911 call where BR can be heard talking, the parents later amended their account to say BR was wide awake during the 911 call. Susan Stine reported BR and DS to the police as she overheard them discussing what allegedly took place.

4. Twisting the Q&A with police.
True. JR lying on numerous occassions, i.e. contradicted by PR. PR and JR regularly develop bouts of AMNESIA.

5. Simultaneously saying JR staged the scene. Then claiming he purposely set out to find the body and disturb the scene.
True. You should read up on staging. This is what all killers do. They MAGICALLY find the body. LEA know this, only amateurs like the Ramsey's don't!

6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
It matters because the parents said BR had been in bed all night until he awoke to the noise of the responding officers. The parents retracted the above account, after listening to the enhanced 911 call, and agreed BR was awake before, during and after the 911 call!
The difference it makes: is that it demonstrates all three Ramsey's were engaged in postmortem staging. i.e. BR was playing possum, only later was it evident both the parents and BR had been lying!

7. Claiming as a statement of fact JR wiped JBR.
True. JR's shirt fibers are all over JonBenet's private parts Its an isolated crime-scene, i.e. the wine-cellar, his fibers should NOT be present at all.

8. Claiming PR taking JBR to the doctor suggests she was molested.
It might be true, it might be false. Yet, JonBenet DOES have internal healing scars which demonstrate CHRONIC abuse.

9 At least 300 posts about the pineapple and underwear.
thats because the pineapple contradicts the parents version of events. As does the underwear its a Red Flag.

10. Claims that patsy handwriting matched the Ransom note.
Why not, its in her house, on her paper, written with one of her pens.
NO RN was required, phoning the next day to say We Want a Million Dollars would work just fine.

There is more to the case than simply thinking an Intruder Did It.

.

 

[UKGuy]

This seems to be the main thread where people debate/discuss the family involvement? Wanted to share some thoughts. And anyone can make corrections to things I got wrong, things I missed, something that doesn't make sense based on details I've missed, etc.

First of before I do, I wanted to state a few things. I have not obsessively pored over every detail of this case, so if my theories are based on some facts I missed I don't have correctly, I'll do a preemptive "my bad" on that. Also: I am not adamant in this theory. I'm always open to changing my mind if I'm correct on some facts or more information comes out. A lot of this stuff is all gut feelings anyway, right? It's a cold case, and with cold cases, as amateur online sleuths who just read about true crime as a hobby, sometimes you go with your gut.

I've gone back and forth on this case over the years, but my most recent position is feeling the family didn't do it. I've heard the arguments for it, and they definitely are strong and have merit, but several things have never sat right with me.

Hypothetically speaking, say either JR, BR, or PR were responsible. Unless it was a long premeditated act, meaning meticulous planning over days if not longer, if a spur of the moment incident were to occur that night, I can't see any parent being in that mental state... (and I don't just mean grief, but freaking out about what just occurred and the wide ranging ramifications of a killing/death)... being in a mental state to where they could think clearly enough to cover it up to such an elaborate degree. Now maybe they did, and this is a super rare instance. But 999/1000 times, if a parent killed a child, whether it be accidentally or purposefully, the cover up is going to be sloppy and amateurish. The Ramseys are not criminal masterminds who have many instances of practice in covering up homicides here. IMO, it's likely they would have done something like place JonBenet at the bottom of the stairs, call 911 and say she fell and hit her head and tried to cover it up that way. Or tried to hide the body outside somewhere and say she disappeared and they don't know what happened to their daughter.

But a garrote? A ransom note? Redressing a body? All while under the intense incredible stress and anxiety and panic of that particular situation? It's something I could never get past. In addition, how many everyday people even know what a garrote is? If you walked up to random people on the street and asked them what is was, how many would even know? I'm guessing very few, let alone how to make one. This seems like an instrument that someone would have experience making. That they're comfortable with using. Almost a "weapon of choice" type of a thing. Something someone has used before and has experience with using for a similar purpose. IMO someone in the process of committing an act like this for the first time and wanted an impromptu device would just grab a shoe lace or a phone cord or something similar. How many people would even think of a garrote in that moment without having it in the back of their mind as a go-to?

As for the ransom note, that's even more elaborate. That was a lengthy note that took a long time to write. For the same logic as above, while I can never rule anything out, I think it would be highly unlikely for a parent to be composed enough to write that letter under such distress.

I'm not saying these things supersede any of the other details about the case, just that those are things I've never been able to get past. Maybe one day that will prove to make me naive and JR and/or PR were just that cunning.

One thing I'm not certain of is if the genital trauma was ever declared to be pre or post mortem.

But I've heard a lot of different takes of this case over the years, and those are some thoughts I have. Maybe a bit more general than most, but things I've never been able to shake, even when I leaned the other way about this case.

I think now someone who knew the family was obsessed with JonBenet broke in and attempted to abduct her for sexual purposes. Something went wrong during the attempted abduction, that person killed her, and tried to stage it as an abduction to throw the scent off of it being a sexually motivated crime.

Any rebuttals, corrections welcome. Like I said, this isn't a case where I have memorized every detail and keep up with on a day to day or weekly basis. And no outcome if ever solved would surprise me.

Assassino,
Absolutely nothing wrong with theory, other than it can be shown to be at varaiance with the crime-scene evidence.

You should read a good book on the case, James Kolar's book: Foreign Faction covers all the angles, e.g. where is all the forensic evidence that shows a Foreign Faction were in the house that night. There is ZERO forensice evidence linking to anyone outside of the Ramsey Household. He will tell you the DNA Sample was an admixture of more than one person, i.e. of NO criminal value.

.

 

[InstantProof]

Let's see.

1. Housekeeper rumors.
2. Patsy rejecting JR sexual requests.
3. All 3 participated in staging.
4. Twisting the Q&A with police.
5. Simultaneously saying JR staged the scene. Then claiming he purposely set out to find the body and disturb the scene.
6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
7. Claiming as a statement of fact JR wiped JBR.
8. Claiming PR taking JBR to the doctor suggests she was molested.
9 At least 300 posts about the pineapple and underwear.
10. Claims that patsy handwriting matched the Ransom note.

Again, I'm not trying to start a fight, or be rude. I'm just not interested seeing this site become what reddit is.

Final point - It's hard to see how some of these things matter at all. But if some of the other things were even remotely true, BPD would have convicted the parents years ago.

6. The Ramseys eventually admitted Burke was awake for the 911 call in an interview with The Enquirer. It matters because they said he was in bed/ asleep, why lie about anything? (personally, I think this ties into their narrative of "move along nothing to see here" where JonBenet is asleep before she even got home that night and Burke is asleep in the morning.)

 

[FergusMcDuck]

3. All 3 participated in staging.
True. No doubt about it. There is forensic evidence and postmortem statements made by the family, e.g. 911 call where BR can be heard talking, the parents later amended their account to say BR was wide awake during the 911 call. Susan Stine reported BR and DS to the police as she overheard them discussing what allegedly took place.

6. Claiming it's a proven fact BR is on the 911 call. When there is no legitimate source for this whatsoever. *besides what difference does that make?
It matters because the parents said BR had been in bed all night until he awoke to the noise of the responding officers. The parents retracted the above account, after listening to the enhanced 911 call, and agreed BR was awake before, during and after the 911 call!
The difference it makes: is that it demonstrates all three Ramsey's were engaged in postmortem staging. i.e. BR was playing possum, only later was it evident both the parents and BR had been lying!

6. The Ramseys eventually admitted Burke was awake for the 911 call in an interview with The Enquirer. It matters because they said he was in bed/ asleep, why lie about anything? (personally, I think this ties into their narrative of "move along nothing to see here" where JonBenet is asleep before she even got home that night and Burke is asleep in the morning.)

BBM. I looked up the interview with the Enquirer, and that's not really what was said.

In an exclusive ENQUIRER interview, the nation's most infamous murder suspects say Burke was jolted awake by screams in their Boulder, Colo. home. "Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake. "Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on." Until being questioned by The ENQUIRER, the Ramseys had always insisted that Burke was still sleeping when police arrived at their home after Patsy's 911 call. But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police. In the Ramsey's face-to-face, in-depth interview with The ENQUIRER: * The Ramseys - who still staunchly proclaim their innocence - broke their silence about what Burke knows of the murder and revealed fears their son will explode emotionally from keeping "a lot inside." * Even though it's almost inconceivable that John and Patsy wouldn't talk to Burke about the murder, they say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later!

Burke has been strangely quiet about his sister's murder, the Ramseys reveal. They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived - - but was pretending to be asleep. "Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

But Patsy still insists: "When I made that phone call, burke Ramsey was nowhere in the vicinity of the telephone."

So the National Enquirer is trash, and everyone working for it and reading it should feel bad. I honestly feel like taking a shower after reading this article.

But it's clear if you disregard the sensationalistic writing that the Ramseys say Burke was awakened by the screaming of his parents, then lay awake in bed until the police arrived. His parents didn't know he was awake that early until much later. But he didn't get out of bed and he wasn't present for the 911 call. As far as I know, Burke has always stood by this. They didn't really change their story here, there was just something they weren't aware of before.

Steve Thomas said in his deposition that the FBI and the Secret Service tested the tape and found nothing, only one third party firm did. NBC also tested the tape, and two experts similarly found nothing. I think the idea that there are multiple voices at the end of the 911 call is shaky at best.

 

[Eddie99]

Another thing,

Whenever they quote one of the R's they use pejorative language, such as:

"Patsy admitted"
John "contradicticted"

No, they made a statement. That's all.

 

[proust20]

If the pineapple snatch is eliminated as Burke's motive, what's left is SA. That returns to BR being both the abuser and killer, which seems intrinsic to BDI.

Still, I do not understand why the parents would not remove the long johns, if they were part of BR's first staging. Certainly, this was a direct link to the CS. (Greater priority was given to getting the white blanket.) Likewise, why would Patsy incriminate herself with her own brush as part of staging? It'd appear that as much was done to include family members as to exclude them. So - Burke whacked JonBenet on the head, and about 45 minutes later, PR decided to cover her comatose state by asphyxiating JB by making a ligature with her own paintbrush, and brutally strangled her daughter in order to have the CS look 'right', while either being aware or not of its connection to the final assault, which also may be staged?? Too many moving parts.

 

[anonymiss]

FW not talking to JR any longer proves that FW thinks RDI or FW knows who did it and had a problem with how JR handled it, imo. Why would FW stop talking to a close friend whose daughter was just murdered by an intruder? It makes no sense.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM. I looked up the interview with the Enquirer, and that's not really what was said.





So the National Enquirer is trash, and everyone working for it and reading it should feel bad. I honestly feel like taking a shower after reading this article.

But it's clear if you disregard the sensationalistic writing that the Ramseys say Burke was awakened by the screaming of his parents, then lay awake in bed until the police arrived. His parents didn't know he was awake that early until much later. But he didn't get out of bed and he wasn't present for the 911 call. As far as I know, Burke has always stood by this. They didn't really change their story here, there was just something they weren't aware of before.

Steve Thomas said in his deposition that the FBI and the Secret Service tested the tape and found nothing, only one third party firm did. NBC also tested the tape, and two experts similarly found nothing. I think the idea that there are multiple voices at the end of the 911 call is shaky at best.

FergusMcDuck,

BBM. I looked up the interview with the Enquirer, and that's not really what was said.

Well, whatever they "said". The bottom line is that BR being heard on the 911 call was enough for the Ramsey's to CHANGE their version of events from BR sleeping through all the chaos and mayhem to him being awake during the 911 call.

This means BR was FAKING being asleep when the responding officers arrived. It also means he was acting out a script, one devised no doubt by his parents.

From all the above, you can minimally demonstrate all three Ramseys were engaged in postmortem staging.

i.e. Patsy is dramatising a 911 call. John is creeping about in his underwear. Burke is sound asleep in his bed.

All patently false!

.

 

[UKGuy]

If the pineapple snatch is eliminated as Burke's motive, what's left is SA. That returns to BR being both the abuser and killer, which seems intrinsic to BDI.

Still, I do not understand why the parents would not remove the long johns, if they were part of BR's first staging. Certainly, this was a direct link to the CS. (Greater priority was given to getting the white blanket.) Likewise, why would Patsy incriminate herself with her own brush as part of staging? It'd appear that as much was done to include family members as to exclude them. So - Burke whacked JonBenet on the head, and about 45 minutes later, PR decided to cover her comatose state by asphyxiating JB by making a ligature with her own paintbrush, and brutally strangled her daughter in order to have the CS look 'right', while either being aware or not of its connection to the final assault, which also may be staged?? Too many moving parts.

proust20,

If the pineapple snatch is eliminated as Burke's motive, what's left is SA.

Sure, as long as the SA has not been staged?

Still, I do not understand why the parents would not remove the long johns, if they were part of BR's first staging.

They never had enough time to rearrange everything, i.e. where do they hide the long johns, do they also remove the size-12's too?

Also there might be more than, say two staging events, to simplify you can break the crime-scene into two phases: 1. BR and the 2. PARENTS.

The parents alike BR being amateurs, leave all the usual forensic markers behind.

The main questions arising from this scenario is:

Did BR move JonBenet to the basement, smash a window, and fake some sort of crime-scene?

Did BR engage with the ligature, wrist-restraints, and paintbrush, or was this all the parents work?

There is more than one reason to think BR staged JonBenet in the basement. This was followed up with the parents tweaking the staging to reflect a more ADULT theme?

If the SA was the primary motive, did this include the use of the paintbrush?

Kolar in his book does suggest the BR was dysfunctional for his age.

.

 

[UKGuy]

FW not talking to JR any longer proves that FW thinks RDI or FW knows who did it and had a problem with how JR handled it, imo. Why would FW stop talking to a close friend whose daughter was just murdered by an intruder? It makes no sense.

anonymiss,

FW not talking to JR any longer proves that FW thinks RDI or FW knows who did it and had a problem with how JR handled it, imo.

I reckon you are right here.

Why would Fleet White need to return down to the wine-cellar to inspect it, if everything was OK, i.e. JR finding JonBenet as he did.

Has to have something to do with Fleet White looking into the wine-cellar earlier that morning, before JR arrived, minimally he must have thought "How could I have missed JonBenet wrapped up in a WHITE blanket, along with a PINK barbie nightgown beside her, never mind any smell of urine, decomposition, etc."

I think Fleet White knows who killed JonBenet, but due to the Grand Jury rules, and Colorado Statutes he cannot name anyone publicly?

Fleet White is the most IMPORTANT witness BPD have. He helped BR get dressed and saw JR finding JonBenet after he had looked in the same location and saw nothing.
.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

FergusMcDuck,

Well, whatever they "said". The bottom line is that BR being heard on the 911 call was enough for the Ramsey's to CHANGE their version of events from BR sleeping through all the chaos and mayhem to him being awake during the 911 call.

No, the bottom line is that the Ramseys "changed" their story after Burke revealed he was lying awake in bed, having woken earlier than they thought but still being in the same place, at the 1999 Grand Jury hearings. And it's not really a change if it's something they weren't aware of before.

That is what is actually being said. The idea that they changed the story due to the "voices" on the 911 call is solely an invention of the National Enquirer, widely regarded as the most dishonest, disgusting and disreputable tabloid in the USA. It doesn't even make sense - the Ramseys still insist Burke never left his bed, so what would him being awake during the 911 call prove? He wouldn't be there to be one of the "voices" anyway.

This means BR was FAKING being asleep when the responding officers arrived. It also means he was acting out a script, one devised no doubt by his parents.

Or it means he was a scared kid lying awake in bed hearing his parents freaking out, knowing something was wrong. This is not exactly something that's rare among children. There is not the slightest indication that he was "acting out a script".

From all the above, you can minimally demonstrate all three Ramseys were engaged in postmortem staging.

Not really. When it requires accepting the National Enquirer's dishonest framing, nothing can be reliably demonstrated.

 

[UKGuy]

No, the bottom line is that the Ramseys "changed" their story after Burke revealed he was lying awake in bed, having woken earlier than they thought but still being in the same place, at the 1999 Grand Jury hearings. And it's not really a change if it's something they weren't aware of before.

That is what is actually being said. The idea that they changed the story due to the "voices" on the 911 call is solely an invention of the National Enquirer, widely regarded as the most dishonest, disgusting and disreputable tabloid in the USA. It doesn't even make sense - the Ramseys still insist Burke never left his bed, so what would him being awake during the 911 call prove? He wouldn't be there to be one of the "voices" anyway.



Or it means he was a scared kid lying awake in bed hearing his parents freaking out, knowing something was wrong. This is not exactly something that's rare among children. There is not the slightest indication that he was "acting out a script".



Not really. When it requires accepting the National Enquirer's dishonest framing, nothing can be reliably demonstrated.

FergusMcDuck,
Nice try, but NO cigar. Blaming the messenger is an old trick, but does not wash here. Websleuths have heard the same old excuses for the Ramsey's, "Oh, Burke was really wide awake, and WE did not know, WE reckon he was scared?"

Oh, sure no problem, a short time later he was leaving the house carrying his Electronic Game and leaving his parents behind, scared or relieved?

Answers on a postcard to The Ramsey Foundation, Colorado State.

The bottom line is the Ramsey's changed their version of events from BR being sound asleep to BR being WIDE AWAKE!

This means they all COLLUDED in postmortem staging to fake a crime-scene.

Nothing unusual here, JR later stated PR knew nothing about the gifts in the wine-cellar.

Then a short period later PR states she opened the Partially Opened Gifts?

Then Kolar states in his book, it was BR who opened these gifts on his walk through the basement on Christmas Day afternoon.

So what is the correct version of events?

Parents say they put JonBenet, SLEEPING, straight to bed.

BR says JonBenet WALKED in through the front door on returning from the White's Party?

At autopsy JonBenet's stomach was found to contain some partially digested pineapple.

All the above contradict the Ramsey Version Of Events, including that of BR.

Which means, minimally they all colluded in postmortem staging to FOOL folks just like YOU.

.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

FergusMcDuck,
Nice try, but NO cigar. Blaming the messenger is an old trick, but does not wash here. Websleuths have heard the same old excuses for the Ramsey's, "Oh, Burke was really wide awake, and WE did not know, WE reckon he was scared?"

What trick? The NE is trying to make it sound like they changed the story to accomodate the phantom voices supposedly on the 911 call, but their words are plain as day - Burke was in his bed the whole time, they thought he was asleep but he was actually awake. This was confirmed by the Schuler interview where Burke says the same thing.

Since none of the Ramseys claim Burke was present for the call, there's no point to them "changing" (i.e. adding information they didn't have earlier) the story. It's just the NE's dishonest framing of the story, and I'm only too happy blaming the messenger here - NE is trash.

Oh, sure no problem, a short time later he was leaving the house carrying his Electronic Game and leaving his parents behind, scared or relieved?

That wasn't exactly his own choice.

The bottom line is the Ramsey's changed their version of events from BR being sound asleep to BR being WIDE AWAKE!

Since they didn't know he was awake in bed, but pretending to be asleep until much later. Burke being asleep or awake doesn't affect their version of events, since he faked being asleep - the only thing that changes is Burke's perception of events, not the accounts of his parents.

This means they all COLLUDED in postmortem staging to fake a crime-scene.

It does no such thing.

Parents say they put JonBenet, SLEEPING, straight to bed.

BR says JonBenet WALKED in through the front door on returning from the White's Party?

Well, Steve Thomas claims that's what Burke said. The relevant part of the Schuler interview transcript has never been released. I'm a bit skeptical since Thomas fudged the accounts from the Schuler interview elsewhere, but it'd be interesting to read the full transcript.

At autopsy JonBenet's stomach was found to contain some partially digested pineapple.

All the above contradict the Ramsey Version Of Events, including that of BR.

I'd say the pineapple is a red herring. Either way, it hardly contradicts JonBenet being asleep when she arrived home.

 

[Luna20]

Rain on my Parade,

Sure, did Burke see this, hence the query "What did you find"?

A red flag for me was when JR said "PR never knew about the gifts in the wine-cellar". I realized he was 100% hands on, manipulating who said what, when, etc.

PR never knew about the size-12's, did she knew about the broken window?


All lies. You cannot believe a word that comes out of JR's mouth. One of them killed JonBenet then they ALL assisted in the postmortem staging.

So for JR to offer his underwear version of events demonstrates how he has such a low regard for our intelligence.


Yes, dysfunctional is the right word. You have to wonder this Playing Doctor, was BR abusing JonBenet, or is it all simply inquisitive kids growing up?

For me the big clue is JonBenet doing pageants along with the sleepovers, including Burke and JonBenet sharing beds.

Something wrong there?

.

‘The big clue was JB doing pageants’
Can you please elaborate? TIA

 

[Luna20]

I am trying to locate the post that said JR is getting up in age-paraphrasing. Can someone point me to it?