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UKGuy,
You don’t make hot tea in a glass. This is what I find to be unusual.



That information is probably intentionally lost or destroyed.



JR was seldom @ home. I don’t find it usual that he missed this.



Yep, considering this case the dogs were pulled per instructions = further coverup.



I checked this book out 3 times and read it in its entirety each time. I don’t recall this reference. Do you think you could help? I’d appreciate it!



I still don’t by the extra ponytail was added before the staging took place. And JB could have worn the Barbie nightgown. It’s presence in the WC with her blood on it, is hard to explain otherwise. As we only have the pink top present and no bottoms; it would make seem logical to assume that this is what she wore that night.







I don’t believe ST had access to all the facts in this case.



Are these people still alive? I thought they were either murdered or had passed.



BDI:
Let’s keep out fingers crossed this comes to pass.

Rain on my Parade,
UKGuy,
You don’t make hot tea in a glass. This is what I find to be unusual.
It was likely used to deposit the used teabag, although some southern folks like cold tea sipped from a glass.

More relevant is this:
Ventus Publishing Foreign Faction Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet 2012
Moreover, by the time of this interview, investigators had developed latent fingerprints on the drinking glass on the dining room table that belonged to Burke. Latent fingerprints found on the bowl of pineapple were identified as belonging to Patsy.
Burke was recognized as the tea drinker in the house, this might be germane to any fetish theory relating to Burke.

That information is probably intentionally lost or destroyed.
Sure, or just not released.

JR was seldom @ home. I don’t find it usual that he missed this.
OK, so Patsy had to know?

Yep, considering this case the dogs were pulled per instructions = further coverup.
Good point, who knows what was going on.

I checked this book out 3 times and read it in its entirety each time. I don’t recall this reference. Do you think you could help? I’d appreciate it!
No , you are right I mixed this up with the fecally soiled pajama bottoms. Although in my minds eye, I assumed he must have derived BR's account from some official police report, otherwise he is just inventing stuff.

Ventus Publishing Foreign Faction Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet 2012
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
Note the plural reports.

Ventus Publishing Foreign Faction Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet 2012
I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke’s upcoming January birthday.

I didn’t give much thought about the presence of the Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.
Vague language from Kolar here, e.g. I learned, must means he definitely knows stuff he cannot publicly reveal?

Ventus Publishing Foreign Faction Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet 2012
Photo 27 - Torn Christmas presents in the Wine Cellar next to the body of JonBenét. The wrapping on these presents are the same as those depicted in photographs of JonBenét and Burke in front of their Christmas tree on the morning of December 25, 1996. Source: Boulder PD Case File / Internet
I reckon Kolar is hinting here that the wine-cellar Partially Opened gifts came from upstairs, i.e. the Ramsey account about Burke's birthday is fake?

Think about it, JR or Patsy can just phone order Burke's Birthday gifts closer to his birthday?

As we only have the pink top present and no bottoms; it would make seem logical to assume that this is what she wore that night.
I'm with you on this, the rest is staging and revision, with barbie gown likely being dumped precisely because it was bloodstained, i.e. demonstrates a bedroom assault, as she was put to bed in the gown [sic].

I don’t believe ST had access to all the facts in this case.
I agree. He was stitched up. Deliberately given a job he had never undertaken before, plenty drug enforcement experience but no homicide cases.

Are these people still alive? I thought they were either murdered or had passed.
I believe so, even still practising, use your favorite search engine to cross-reference who it might be.

Also their records will be extant, unless JR get his Private Detectives to hunt them down and remove them?

BDI:
Let’s keep out fingers crossed this comes to pass.
Holly Smith is my candidate for a book on the case, she has inside information, is professional, knows where the skeletons are buried and has a score to settle with the Ramsey's?

Another curious aspect is Susan Stine reporting Doug Stine and Burke Ramsey to the police. She overheard them discussing if JonBenet had been been manually strangled?

Get that 9-10 year old boys debating the finer points of a homicide?

Manually, only the assailant would know, unless someone else staged the assailants manual assault away?

Leaving the assailant convinced JonBenet was manually strangled because the asailant was present!

Did Doug Stine read or hear some media reference to ligature asphyxiation somewhere?

.
 
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Also, Burke was in boy scouts, learned to tie all sorts of knots, using knives, etc. <snip>

Whereas John, having been stationed as a Civil Engineer Corps officer in the Navy in the Philippines where they used rods as twisters to tighten garrotes would be 100% inept and clueless as how to construct one?
 
Also, Burke was in boy scouts, learned to tie all sorts of knots, using knives, etc. <snip>

Whereas John, having been stationed as a Civil Engineer Corps officer in the Navy in the Philippines where they used rods as twisters to tighten garrotes would be 100% inept and clueless as how to construct one?
 
Tea served in a glass is Eastern European/Russian, but the Rs are neither. Caffeine seems unsuitable as a night time drink for kids who have to be up at the crack of dawn, or was it herbal? But how long was the glass there on the bar? It's possible JB could have had pineapple from somewhere else than the now notorious bowl, and that was cleaned up?

ST worked in earnest. He was limited by higher ups all along. Although, I think that he could have played his hand more slyly. There were many questions that the Rs were never asked. He didn't use the media to his advantage.

Kolar teases with the torn packages. His wording is vague; but, the inclusion of a photo of them in the WC indicates that he considers them meaningful. He's right - Why would PR lie about them?
 
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OK, so Patsy had to know?

UKGuy,
Yes, according to Friends of the R’s they noticed JB being clingy with her Mom just prior to her murder. PR took care of the household as it was her job per the housekeeper’s. I believe they knew what was going on in that house more then anyone else. I do not know why LHP wanted to write her story stating it was PR whom murdered her daughter.

I reckon Kolar is hinting here that the wine-cellar Partially Opened gifts came from upstairs, i.e. the Ramsey account about Burke's birthday is fake?

Yes, this definitely could be the case. He probably partially opened the gift Christmas morning before the gifts were taken down to the basement on the 26th. But, why move them to basement for staging?

I believe so, even still practising, use your favorite search engine to cross-reference who it might be.

Also their records will be extant, unless JR get his Private Detectives to hunt them down and remove them?

Dr. Jaffe is still in practice in Atlanta. Wonder how that worked with his therapist in Georgia and not Colorado?
I found this with the search engine:
Overview
Dr. Steven Jaffe, MD is a Child & Adolescent Psychiatry Specialist in Atlanta, GA and has over 56 years of experience in the medical field.
CONDITIONS TREATED


Psychiatrists diagnose and treat mental illness, such as depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and schizophrenia. Most psychiatrists rely on a mix of medications and psychotherapy.
SPECIALTIES


Did Doug Stine read or hear some media reference to ligature asphyxiation somewhere?

DS is the same age as BR. If this conversation shocked SS enough to seek and and share this story with MK, I highly doubt DS overheard such information from the media!
 
Tea served in a glass is Eastern European/Russian, but the Rs are neither. Caffeine seems unsuitable as a night time drink for kids who have to be up at the crack of dawn, or was it herbal? But how long was the glass there on the bar? It's possible JB could have had pineapple from somewhere else than the now notorious bowl, and that was cleaned up?

ST worked in earnest. He was limited by higher ups all along. Although, I think that he could have played his hand more slyly. There were many questions that the Rs were never asked. He didn't use the media to his advantage.

Kolar teases with the torn packages. His wording is vague; but, the inclusion of a photo of them in the WC indicates that he considers them meaningful. He's right - Why would PR lie about them?

It makes more sense that JB bowl was cleaned up. After all, she had a fruit cocktail detected during autopsy. Only the pineapple was matched to the rind of that in the R’s fridge. I believe what was in her intestines was not given any thought. There were to many other things that needed to be dealt with as a part of the cover up.

Why are the torn packages in the WC and the bloody Barbie nightgown. The Bonita papers state that BR knife was found in there as well. PR probably lied to distance BR from the WC. Back to the Barbie nightgown and knife then …
 
UKGuy,
Yes, according to Friends of the R’s they noticed JB being clingy with her Mom just prior to her murder. PR took care of the household as it was her job per the housekeeper’s. I believe they knew what was going on in that house more then anyone else. I do not know why LHP wanted to write her story stating it was PR whom murdered her daughter.



Yes, this definitely could be the case. He probably partially opened the gift Christmas morning before the gifts were taken down to the basement on the 26th. But, why move them to basement for staging?



Dr. Jaffe is still in practice in Atlanta. Wonder how that worked with his therapist in Georgia and not Colorado?
I found this with the search engine:
Overview
Dr. Steven Jaffe, MD is a Child & Adolescent Psychiatry Specialist in Atlanta, GA and has over 56 years of experience in the medical field.
CONDITIONS TREATED


Psychiatrists diagnose and treat mental illness, such as depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and schizophrenia. Most psychiatrists rely on a mix of medications and psychotherapy.
SPECIALTIES




DS is the same age as BR. If this conversation shocked SS enough to seek and and share this story with MK, I highly doubt DS overheard such information from the media!

Rain on my Parade,
DS is the same age as BR. If this conversation shocked SS enough to seek and and share this story with MK, I highly doubt DS overheard such information from the media!
DS and BR were debating whether JonBenet had been manually strangled?

We know, e.g. see Autopsy Report, that JonBenet had been Ligature Asphyxiated.

Why would DS or BR need to talk about this, unless they disagreed, i.e. one of them was present and had first hand knowledge?

What if DS said JonBenet was Ligature Asphyxiated and BR said No, she was Manually Strangled?

If neither were present the answer is moot.

I do not know why LHP wanted to write her story stating it was PR whom murdered her daughter.
Could be she honestly thinks the case is PDI, or she has a score to settle with Patsy for making her a suspect?
 
Rain on my Parade,

NE Page 83 (04-30-1997 Interviews)

Tom Trujillo: "... Patsy, has anybody, that you can remember, um, spent time in the basement, um, how many people have had access to the basement know about that basement cellar?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Well, my cleaning lady and her husband."

Tom Trujillo: "Linda and Mervin?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yeah, would definitely be one couple, because I had asked them at Thanksgiving time, we were going to be in Atlanta and I had hired them to put out the Christmas trees and some of the Christmas decorations and the big artificial Christmas trees were back in that room..."

"And, uh, they also washed the windows, so they may be able to recall whether that window, and he was going to do some odd jobs."

NE Page 84 (04-30-1997 Interviews)

Tom Trujillo: "Okay. Um, other than Linda and Mervin, anybody else know about that cellar room down there?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Um. We had people come and let's see, like plumbers and stuff, but I don't know if they would go down there. I can't think who might, who had reason to know about that."

Tom Trujillo: "Okay. You say that the artificial Christmas trees were stored in that room?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yeah, uh huh."

Tom Trujillo: "Okay. How do they..."

Patsy Ramsey: "Oh, well, you know, Christmas before last, the guys that put them down there put the trees into the closed, into the cellar room there, would have been Bob, uh, Bob Wallace."

Tom Trujillo: "With the goatee?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yes, right"

Tom Trujillo: "Okay."

Patsy Ramsey: "Bob Wallace and one of this friends. I don't remember what his name was."
 
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Could be she honestly thinks the case is PDI, or she has a score to settle with Patsy for making her a suspect?

UKGuy,
I lean more towards … the don’t get mad; get even bent. After all, it was PR who had started pointing fingers right and left at LHP. Interesting, that during the memorial service, LHP is seen walking next to PR. She didn’t have a clue at that point.
 
UKGuy,
I lean more towards … the don’t get mad; get even bent. After all, it was PR who had started pointing fingers right and left at LHP. Interesting, that during the memorial service, LHP is seen walking next to PR. She didn’t have a clue at that point.


Rain on my Parade,
Yes, she has no incentive to back PR up at all. Just flung under the bus by the Ramsey's, total disregard for LHP's family and the impact such accusations would have on their ability to earn an income.

LHP is patently biased on this issue and would funnel most of the evidence towards a PDI outcome.

I don't blame her, just that, IMO looks more like Patsy staging away a BDI case?

Unrelated but thought I might post this as a counter to all those he suggest Fleet White would have been cognitively unable to see JonBenet in the wine-cellar.

07-09-1998 A&E Documentary - 'Who Killed JonBenet’ by Michael Tracy and David Mills
John Ramsey: "As I was going through the basement, I opened the door and knew immediately that I'd found her because I saw a white blanket. Her eyes were closed, I feared the worse yet I'd found her and she was back in our safe protection again. And yet when I found her, even though there was this rush that I'd found her, I was fearful that she wasn't OK and just, I couldn't say anything, I screamed to attract attention and carried her upstairs. The detective was there that had helped us that morning, spent a minute with her and looked at me and said to me, she's dead. I think up to that point, I just kind of hoped we could bring her back that she was just asleep."
So if JR could see her, with his poor eyesight then surely Fleet White would have seen her also?

The reply is of course that JR is lying through his teeth, anything new here?

.
 
The funeral was another pageant.

Proust20,

Serious actors upon that stage!

Boxing Day: JR in his button down and khakis; cool as a cucumber. PR in her cloths from the night before; hysterical. BR pretending to be asleep and staying in his room like a good little boy?
 
The reply is of course that JR is lying through his teeth, anything new here?

UKGuy,
Nope. And there won’t be until some more light is shed on this case. Who comes forward and when? Perhaps, FW? If he knows it’s BDI, how will he step forward?
 
It's curious that FW felt the need to make BR's bed before they left the house.
 
It's curious that FW felt the need to make BR's bed before they left the house.

proust20,
Maybe FW just wanted some sort of order in the madness of the day. But then again, maybe he was covering up something in BR bed. I doubt this was the case.

FW obviously saw something that wasn’t right since he had a confrontation with JR @ Fat Cat’s house. Apparently Fat cat was concerned enough to conceal a deadly weapon under the couch cushions, just in case. I suspect it was something related to the basement.
 
From UKGuy:

Think about it, JR or Patsy can just phone order Burke's Birthday gifts closer to his birthday?

(Sorry, I’m a very infrequent poster, I don’t know how to embed the quotes yet)

I agree there’s something fishy about these gifts, but just to play devil’s advocate, the fact there were birthday gifts already there in the basement prior to Christmas really doesn’t surprise me. They were leaving for vacation in Michigan (and then a cruise, right?) the day after Christmas so PR likely thought ahead about being all ready for the birthday when they returned home knowing the birthday would be upon them as soon as they were done traveling. As a mom, that’s exactly how I’d handle, especially in the pre-Amazon days when you couldn’t get everything in 2 days, and I wouldn’t want to have to fuss with ordering gifts while on vacation!

While there are many obvious staging issues and other oddities in that basement pointing to RDI (and IMO, given all circumstances, I believe BDI), the presents don’t cause me much heartburn.
 
UKGuy,
Nope. And there won’t be until some more light is shed on this case. Who comes forward and when? Perhaps, FW? If he knows it’s BDI, how will he step forward?

Rain on my Parade,
If the case is BDI then Fleet White will know, apart from Patsy and John he is only person to have eyeballs on Burke Ramsey before he left the house?

Assuming BDI I doubt Fleet White can state BDI with proof in public as he would then be violating Colorado Child Safety Statutes.

I reckon Fleet White knows because he was present in Burke's bedroom that fateful morning, only FW's memory would prevent disclosure along with the above statutes.

.
 
He was on the verge of being 10. In my opinion only, that's much past any age at which smiling at the funeral for your recently murdered little sister would be appropriate. Again, JMOO.

I do trust you will be able to provide proof of Burke smiling at JonBenet's funeral at Peachtree Presbyterian Church in Atlanta, GA on 31 Dec 96.
 
From UKGuy:

Think about it, JR or Patsy can just phone order Burke's Birthday gifts closer to his birthday?

(Sorry, I’m a very infrequent poster, I don’t know how to embed the quotes yet)

I agree there’s something fishy about these gifts, but just to play devil’s advocate, the fact there were birthday gifts already there in the basement prior to Christmas really doesn’t surprise me. They were leaving for vacation in Michigan (and then a cruise, right?) the day after Christmas so PR likely thought ahead about being all ready for the birthday when they returned home knowing the birthday would be upon them as soon as they were done traveling. As a mom, that’s exactly how I’d handle, especially in the pre-Amazon days when you couldn’t get everything in 2 days, and I wouldn’t want to have to fuss with ordering gifts while on vacation!

While there are many obvious staging issues and other oddities in that basement pointing to RDI (and IMO, given all circumstances, I believe BDI), the presents don’t cause me much heartburn.

KansasJD,
You might have to endure a fuss over ordering gifts. The Ramsey's are in the moneyed class, super-rich, they can simply phone order what they want and have it delivered to their door, as not quite then, amazon prime delivery.

I used to think along similar lines to yourself regarding the gifts down in the basement, but after parsing the evidence, I reckon they have been dumped into the wine-cellar with the Birthday Story as backup.

Originally JR said PR never knew about the gifts in the wine-cellar, i.e. only he did.

Later in another BPD interview Patsy claims she knew about the gifts because she put them there for BR's birthday, etc.

This is the same routine we faced over the size-12 underwear and Burke's long johns, i.e. Patsy claims she redressed JonBenet, and put the size-12 Bloomingdale's underwear into JonBenet's drawer for her to use.

Which suggests JonBenet could have 13 pairs of size-12 Bloomingdale's underwear in her drawer, i.e. the set Patsy purchased for JonBenet and the set purchased for Patsy's niece, Jenny?

Except when BPD took a look there was no size-12 underwear to be found in her drawer or anywhere in her house!

Another Christmas gift anomaly is Burke's bike, where did it go, why do the parents not want to acknowledge its existence?

So an alternative to the pineapple snack whacking theory might be a curious JonBenet messing up Burke's Christmas gift as he constructs it, so an angry BR whacks JonBenet.

Parents clean up the crime-scene and dump the gifts along with other items into the wine-cellar, then concoct some birthday tale to cover for them being located in the wine-cellar and not upstairs?

Curiously BR goes along with the alleged parents staging according to Kolar's remarks on this subject, its in his book.

.
 
<snip>Kolar teases with the torn packages. His wording is vague; but, the inclusion of a photo of them in the WC indicates that he considers them meaningful. He's right - Why would PR lie about them?

"Then Haney asked if I remembered what JonBenet had gotten me for Christmas, and I became very emotional. I remembered a little green construction paper ornament JonBenet had made in her class at school. When I had opened it on December 25, 1996, I saw her school picture with the message: "your gift is ME." How true, how very, very true. I had thought the ornament was lost in the shuffle, but Trip DeMuth assured me they had it in their possession. Of all the hundreds of items that were confiscated from both of our homes, that is the one item I most want returned."

crimescene-christmasday.htm

No one but Patsy would equate JonBenet with being a gift and either place her or have her placed in the wine cellar with other gifts.
 
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