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UKGuy,
My apologies for not replying to you post earlier. Have been very busy.

In regards to PR staging herself out of a homicide this is MOO: We both know PR didn’t put the size 12’s in JB bathroom drawer. They were downstairs in the laundry room. She is really the only one that knew their location. They were for her niece. She knew if they were wrapped or not. Why would BR or JR have knowledge of such info? She could have used them thinking she was again throwing somebody under the bus. She would profess to never dress her daughter in them.



Don Paugh also watched the children overnight for JR and PR at his condo. This condo actually belonged to Access Graphics. It is where the R’s first lived when they moved to Atlanta. I have always wondered why they did not stay there after the murder. Apparently they felt the need to be cared for or under supervision. Why did DP fly standby? Were JR’s plane’s being used?



Exactly.

O/T Can I just take a moment to say that a package of size 12 underwear, tights, longjohns, or anything resembling the same, is an incredibly lame gift for a niece, particularly when one considers how wealthy the R's were/are. Ranks right up there with socks! It's one thing if that's what they could afford, or if the niece was running around on her last pair of underwear. But I don't think so, on either count. And just because they've got Bloomingdales slapped across them, they're still underwear.

He may have been an expert at business and she an expert at pageants, but gift buying? Ughgh!! Okay, I feel a little better now. Thank you for letting me rant. I've been wanting to share that thought for 25 years!
 
Haha :-D This gave me a chuckle. Hey....I'd be happy to receive a pack of underwear from Bloomingdales. Even as a kid. I have a memory etched in my brain from my childhood. I was sick. Don't remember with what but my dad had taken me to get bloodwork and when I came home, my mother (who had been home with my brother who was also sick) had laid out across my bed a brand new powder blue robe, powder blue nightgown, and powder blue fuzzy slippers. OMG it made my day. I will never forget that. But....with the types of elaborate gifts the Ramseys gave to family and friends, I would imagine that Patsy's niece was getting other gifts from them besides the underwear. And.....maybe......her niece was not from the same income bracket family and might have never had a pair of underwear from Bloomingdales if it wasn't for Patsy. Just sayin' :-D
 
O/T Can I just take a moment to say that a package of size 12 underwear, tights, longjohns, or anything resembling the same, is an incredibly lame gift for a niece, particularly when one considers how wealthy the R's were/are. Ranks right up there with socks! It's one thing if that's what they could afford, or if the niece was running around on her last pair of underwear. But I don't think so, on either count. And just because they've got Bloomingdales slapped across them, they're still underwear.

He may have been an expert at business and she an expert at pageants, but gift buying? Ughgh!! Okay, I feel a little better now. Thank you for letting me rant. I've been wanting to share that thought for 25 years!
Lol. Let it out.

Having worn the underwear from Bloomingdales I will mention that they were a somewhat special status symbol. Good quality. Like $26 for 7 pairs. Particularly if you traveled to THE NYC Bloomingdales, like THE FAO Schwartz, it was a special souvenir. I have clear memories of that toy store in the mid 90s. The stuff wealthy moms could bestow upon Princess daughters and nieces. There may have been a cosmetics sample or something else to go with the underwear.

From a cultural standpoint, this was all in the same privileged 90s little girl category; pink Skip it in the Ramsey yard, iron on perla beads mistaken for pineapple/popcorn in the bedroom, American girl dolls, bloomies, the creative crafts brand had a paper bead twirling kit I remember distinctly.

For sure, it is a stupid gift, but one that nostalgically makes sense, at least to me. I don’t even recall where mine came from.

Also when you shop in NY you have to carry the purchases with you. Compact gift, easy to carry into Barney’s and to lunch.

I’ll add about Pam nabbing Molly doll and possibly a catalogue during her crime scene raid, it’s possible she didn’t need one. At the back of each and every American Girl Doll book (that Pam was said to have read to JonBenet) there is a tear out order form for a catalogue along with customer service telephone number for ordering! You could call and order a doll by phone this way, wouldn’t need a catalogue.

Also, tonight I decapitated my Molly doll. I triple knotted the rope as a child and the duct tape piece from 94/95 was not very sticky anymore. There were synthetic white fibers, tan fibers, and brown synthetic hair all over the tape. There was a large handful of synthetic stuffing, but no animal hairs found inside. It seems to match the picture in the wine cellar, but Christmas is bursting with synthetic Santa beard fluff, fake snow, and similar stuffing- type material.

Perhaps the unmatched animal hairs on JonBenet’s hands and clothing were from one of the perpetrators’ clothing during touch transfer, so the question would be, which of her playmates/ neighbors had pets? She was on the floor of the Whites, as shown in the final photo taken of her at the party. This was not the last photo of JonBenet though, was it? The cutesy one was? What does “cutesy” mean? She was posing. I don’t like that word.

Alternatively, the hairs could be from the leather jacket with the fur collar hanging on a chair by the kitchen island in some crime scene photos. It seems Burke walked out wearing hiTecs, Patsy walked out wearing beaver boots, and John walked out wearing a jacket with a fur collar? It seems we will never know. RIP JonBenet. And what a ride it’s been trying to unravel your mystery. <3 if you only knew how much the world still cares, RIP baby girl.
 
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Lol. Let it out.

Having worn the underwear from Bloomingdales I will mention that they were a somewhat special status symbol. Good quality. Like $26 for 7 pairs. Particularly if you traveled to THE NYC Bloomingdales, like THE FAO Schwartz, it was a special souvenir. I have clear memories of that toy store in the mid 90s. The stuff wealthy moms could bestow upon Princess daughters and nieces. There may have been a cosmetics sample or something else to go with the underwear.

From a cultural standpoint, this was all in the same privileged 90s little girl category; pink Skip it in the Ramsey yard, iron on perla beads mistaken for pineapple/popcorn in the bedroom, American girl dolls, bloomies, the creative crafts brand had a paper bead twirling kit I remember distinctly.

For sure, it is a stupid gift, but one that nostalgically makes sense, at least to me. I don’t even recall where mine came from.

Also when you shop in NY you have to carry the purchases with you. Compact gift, easy to carry into Barney’s and to lunch.

BINGO on all counts. And this set of Bloomies underpants had day-of-the-week appliqués on them. That was a cool gift for a little girl. But Size 12s weren’t for very young ladies, was it? I forget how my sizes ran when I was a kid. After 7 or 8, something like that becomes a bit of a groaner — possibly more appreciated by the girl’s mother then the girl herself. Oh well. I have a feeling PR selected the value of gifts based on how much she valued the relationship. Tickets to ride, s it were.
 
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I don’t like to throw around the word “zeitgeist” for fear of breaking a (basement) window, but the bloomies were a perfect gift/ stocking stuffer for little girls, and for tweens as well during that era.

I suppose Patsy knew her niece’s size, it definitely was a pack intended for an older/ larger child. And an adolescent mind replaced the underwear during phase 1 staging, I guess? there is the black hole of guesses…
 
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If I would have received underwear as a gift from anyone but my parents I would have been totally creeped out and very disappointed, specially if it were from a rich family member. What girl of any age really wants underwear for Christmas? It reminds me of Donald and Marla Trump. Mary Trump states in her recent book that they gave her underwear as a Christmas gift too.
 
O/T Can I just take a moment to say that a package of size 12 underwear, tights, longjohns, or anything resembling the same, is an incredibly lame gift for a niece, particularly when one considers how wealthy the R's were/are. Ranks right up there with socks! It's one thing if that's what they could afford, or if the niece was running around on her last pair of underwear. But I don't think so, on either count. And just because they've got Bloomingdales slapped across them, they're still underwear.

He may have been an expert at business and she an expert at pageants, but gift buying? Ughgh!! Okay, I feel a little better now. Thank you for letting me rant. I've been wanting to share that thought for 25 years!
Yes, it's really weird. Donald and Marla Trump did the same thing to their niece, Mary. One thing I've always noticed and no one seems to think weird either, is their house is a complete mess. There's stuff laying around everywhere. Nothing like I would expect rich people to live like. All the rooms are cramped and dark and full of crap. It's all so weird. I hope to live long enough to see it solved once and for all, but don't expect to. Rich people live in a different world with different rules. Unless and until something happens for it to benefit them, we'll never know for sure.
 
Yes, it's really weird. Donald and Marla Trump did the same thing to their niece, Mary. One thing I've always noticed and no one seems to think weird either, is their house is a complete mess. There's stuff laying around everywhere. Nothing like I would expect rich people to live like. All the rooms are cramped and dark and full of crap. It's all so weird. I hope to live long enough to see it solved once and for all, but don't expect to. Rich people live in a different world with different rules. Unless and until something happens for it to benefit them, we'll never know for sure.

Becky Starkey,
One thing I've always noticed and no one seems to think weird either, is their house is a complete mess. There's stuff laying around everywhere.
Sure, lots of rich folks are just like this. They are always racing to buy the next cool thing, then its dumped anywhere and off they go looking at the next fabulous thing to buy. The older they are the worse it becomes as acquisition becomes a way of life, i.e. you have a Hummer, well I have a Tesla Model XYZ.

The size-12, or the Bloomingdale's purchases are a curiosity in themselves. The BPD has released no information on the status of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer, i.e. were they size-6 Bloomingdales, Day of the Week pants, was the Wednesday pair missing?

For JonBenet the White's Christmas Party was a big deal, she and Patsy had been out shopping for clothes leading up to Christmas so she was going to dress as she liked for it, i.e. White Gap Top, Velvet Black Pants, etc. If Patsy had purchased for JonBenet, as she claimed in her BPD interview, a pack of size-6 Bloomingdale's, why would JonBenet not want to wear a Wednesday pair?

Whatever she wore went missing as she was found in the size-12s!

1. Did BPD verify Patsy's purchases at Bloomingdales, i.e. via Credit Card or Bloomingdale's Customer Account records?

2. Did Patsy really purchase the size-12's at Bloomingdale's as claimed, as BPD say none were found in the house, anywhere?

3. The Bloomingdale's handed in by the Ramsey's, i.e. found in a packing crate, months later could just as easily been purchased on say eBay.

There were suggestions Patsy wore the size-12's to entertain JR who was demanding in this area?

All this means, just like the contents of the wine-cellar, that Patsy's account regarding the size-12's is likely to be ficticious?

.
 
Becky Starkey,

Sure, lots of rich folks are just like this. They are always racing to buy the next cool thing, then its dumped anywhere and off they go looking at the next fabulous thing to buy. The older they are the worse it becomes as acquisition becomes a way of life, i.e. you have a Hummer, well I have a Tesla Model XYZ.

The size-12, or the Bloomingdale's purchases are a curiosity in themselves. The BPD has released no information on the status of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer, i.e. were they size-6 Bloomingdales, Day of the Week pants, was the Wednesday pair missing?

For JonBenet the White's Christmas Party was a big deal, she and Patsy had been out shopping for clothes leading up to Christmas so she was going to dress as she liked for it, i.e. White Gap Top, Velvet Black Pants, etc. If Patsy had purchased for JonBenet, as she claimed in her BPD interview, a pack of size-6 Bloomingdale's, why would JonBenet not want to wear a Wednesday pair?

Whatever she wore went missing as she was found in the size-12s!

1. Did BPD verify Patsy's purchases at Bloomingdales, i.e. via Credit Card or Bloomingdale's Customer Account records?

2. Did Patsy really purchase the size-12's at Bloomingdale's as claimed, as BPD say none were found in the house, anywhere?

3. The Bloomingdale's handed in by the Ramsey's, i.e. found in a packing crate, months later could just as easily been purchased on say eBay.

There were suggestions Patsy wore the size-12's to entertain JR who was demanding in this area?

All this means, just like the contents of the wine-cellar, that Patsy's account regarding the size-12's is likely to be ficticious?

.
Regarding Patsy purchasing the size 12 bloomies to entertain John in the bedroom, and I’m sure this point has been exhausted many times before, but 1) ew and what was found on the Access computers 2) I don’t think they would fit her.

Maybe undergoing chemo where she dropped so much weight she said she could finally wear a backless dress to a special event and feel empowered, maybe after the crime where she appears visibly gaunt from grief and fasting (CNN, memorial church door exit, Ramsey infomercial) but Christmas 1996 Patsy appears to be at the smallest a muffin top 6, or more likely an 8/10. BPD would know her pants and suit size.

Size 12 girls underwear: according to Fruit of the Loom is a 26 waist intended for a child 85-95 lbs. Girl's Brief Underwear - Briefs for Girls | Fruit of the Loom

A size 6 womens size is 28-29.5 waist plus a 38-39.5 hip intended for a woman certainly over 100 lbs. Even with stretch factor, mostly cotton underwear too small and too tight is not a recipe for bedroom romance or confidence. It’s a recipe for accentuated muffin top and turn the lights off, I’ll tell you what.

Patsy had a large abdominal scar from her cancer surgery, her hips widened from carrying 2 children, and according to Prince Charming John Ramsey spoken to the press, wouldn’t be caught dead in a two piece swim suit. He also allegedly purchased his Arizona mail order mistress lingerie (which is never cotton) and told her how to paint her nails and what to wear. She was a petite blonde. Maybe they were for her, I doubt it.

I believe they were a gift for the niece which is why they were allegedly stored in the basement by the wrapping paper and other gifts and not in the bedroom in a (goodie) or undergarment drawer? Who knows.
 
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Respectfully snipped for focus

Becky Starkey,

3. The Bloomingdale's handed in by the Ramsey's, i.e. found in a packing crate, months later could just as easily been purchased on say eBay.

Our time frame is a bit early for eBay — but that said, your surmise that PR might have made up the Bloomies underwear story is as likely to be correct as not.
 
Respectfully snipped for focus

Size 12 girls underwear: according to Fruit of the Loom is a 26 waist intended for a child 85-95 lbs. Girl's Brief Underwear - Briefs for Girls | Fruit of the Loom

I think there must be something wrong with the size guide at that site. A 26” waist seems large for an 85-95 lb. girl. When I was a senior in high school, at 5’7” tall and 120 lbs, my waist measurement was 23”. I remember because Seventeen magazine said the optimal measurements for models was a waist ten inches smaller than bust and hip measurements, which should be the same. I was 32-23-32, which annoyed me. What I wouldn’t give to have those measurements again, as long as I didn’t have to trade my health for them.

The idea that HR and PR might have gotten up to some “Daddy’s girl” cosplay in their third-floor aerie is really revolting under the circumstances, but it’s possible.
 
Respectfully snipped for focus

Size 12 girls underwear: according to Fruit of the Loom is a 26 waist intended for a child 85-95 lbs. Girl's Brief Underwear - Briefs for Girls | Fruit of the Loom

I think there must be something wrong with the size guide at that site. A 26” waist seems large for an 85-95 lb. girl. When I was a senior in high school, at 5’7” tall and 120 lbs, my waist measurement was 23”. I remember because Seventeen magazine said the optimal measurements for models was a waist ten inches smaller than bust and hip measurements, which should be the same. I was 32-23-32, which annoyed me. What I wouldn’t give to have those measurements again, as long as I didn’t have to trade my health for them.

The idea that HR and PR might have gotten up to some “Daddy’s girl” cosplay in their third-floor aerie is really revolting under the circumstances, but it’s possible.
Absolutely, understood. Body types and figures vary. Sizing preference varies. Average sizing and measurements and sample sizes by brand do vary. But this is what Patsy looked like in Winter 96, the camera adds 5+lbs and holiday indulgence- salt sugar and booze will puff you up in the face, but look at her wrists. I don’t think she could fit into girls size, nor would they find it sexy, but who knows. Wild things spark joy. And that family was yearning for spark in high and low places. Google Image Result for https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/OP2QgaHUqptNpdF3nXqVXK05wCA=/576x753/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/GWQCKYSLZFOAU7OVX4AQY2SZXM.jpg
 
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