Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!

[cali_mommy]

I am new to this thread,so I have no theory yet. But I have a gut feeling that she is alive. I am no psychic nor do I claim to be,so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Paige SC]

Mom's don't give up on their babies if there's an accident .They get help. They do everything they can to get that child breathing ,unless there is criminal activity involved ,IMO. Even then,most mom's would get help .

I've told the story in Caylee's thread how my husband worked so hard on our son until EMS came ,and he had no signs of life.Still ,my husband had hope. You just don't automatically get to "he/she's dead" Your brain won't let you.He was hopeful with me on the phone and I had no idea my son was dead. I was at the ER door when the ambulance arrived and wanted to go back with him.The dr said "first let me see if there is anything I can do for him". Still ,I knew they could save him and I would yell at my son for scaring us . But he was gone. I wanted them to keep trying . It was unfathomable the dr would stop.

When I was growing up we knew a family who's little boy was backed over in the driveway by a delivery truck and was decapitated.His mom tried to put his head back on. Mom's don't give up and they don't let go. They don't make an accident look like a kidnapping . They don't nap with kittens hours later ,unless it was intentional. JMO

It still could be a kidnapping .I'm not ruling that out ,yet.But not an accident IMO.

I am so sorry for your loss. I agree with you 100%. I try to be mindful and respectful of everyone's POV but when it comes to "it was probably an accident, the parents panicked and tried to conceal it" - Its very hard to keep quiet. VERY. Concealing an accident of your own child's death isn't a normal human reaction. It just doesn't happen.

 

[MissJames]

I am so sorry for your loss. I agree with you 100%. I try to be mindful and respectful of everyone's POV but when it comes to "it was probably an accident, the parents panicked and tried to conceal it" - Its very hard to keep quiet. VERY. Concealing an accident of your own child's death isn't a normal human reaction. It just doesn't happen.

I want to be respectful also,and I'm not really trying to change a POV ,rather make it more real,I guess. Bring it home . Go beneath the surface of what actually happens when your child dies suddenly. Honestly,your body is not your own when that happens. There are physical reactions to the shock and grief that you can't control.

IMO Casey Anthony was a sociopath and Caylee was just an object.She had very little reaction to Caylee's death.

 

[grandmaj]

Guys...... I know a forum is a little difficult to get used to. But in the long run it is better to maintain different threads for different subjects. It stops the repeated requests for links over and over and over because links to the news are in one place. It allows you to discuss the subjects you are interested in. And for an example today after the numerous general threads no one could find the maps.

So, please give it a try. Please understand once a case has the number of posters that this case has had that subjects are important for future searches for information. And let's go with the flow. It is in the interest of keeping like information together and like discussion together that makes it easier in the long run. Believe me if this case continues you will be looking for information and a certain word search will be easier with a forum than general threads.

Now having said that, I just moved 72 posts. Moderators are only going to do that for a short while because being on topic is part of the rules.

This is not a general discussion thread. As long as you stick to theories and frustrations in this thread you will be OK. We do not sponsor general discussion threads once a forum opens. Sooooooo first warning. Let's open new threads when news hits. If it doesn't fit in another thread open a new one.

Thanks.

 

[MissJames]

I posted this on another Lisa thread as well, but here it is again...
I agree that maybe some type of unforeseen accident may have caused baby Lisa's death. I just don't see the accidental overdose of an over the counter cold medication, you're talking about a really large dose to cause a baby to actually stop breathing and die. Unless we're talking something purposeful, rather than accidental. UNLESS, there was the off chance she may have been allergic to something in the medication and went into anaphylactic shock. IMO that is not what happened or the parents would have called 911 without hesitation, as most parents would do when they are panicked in this situation. No guilt there, therefore, it has to be something more,IMO.

Continuing on, the parents could have no way of knowing when they walked in the baby's room and discovered her not breathing that her death was caused by them giving her too much of or a simply wrong medication. Why or how would they suspect this? Only in one case, again IMO. That is if it was done intentionally . Otherwise, any loving mother or father couldn't be more worried about their own guilt about a mistake than they were about their own daughters life, to the point they would not immediately call 911.

SID's (sudden infant death syndrome) happens every day. Not to mention it could have been any number of other things, choking on a bottle? By the way, you're not supposed to put a baby to bed with a bottle because of the chance of aspiration. Did the mother not know this, or did she have more important things on her mind? This wasn't her first experience at being a mother, so I think she knew this simple fact. Something more is going on, accident, possibly, but more than over the counter cold meds.
JMO

Actually you posted that on this thread and I answered ,LOL.

We are all having thread overload in this case.

 

[neesaki]

I posted this on another Lisa thread as well, but here it is again...
I agree that maybe some type of unforeseen accident may have caused baby Lisa's death. I just don't see the accidental overdose of an over the counter cold medication, you're talking about a really large dose to cause a baby to actually stop breathing and die. Unless we're talking something purposeful, rather than accidental. UNLESS, there was the off chance she may have been allergic to something in the medication and went into anaphylactic shock. IMO that is not what happened or the parents would have called 911 without hesitation, as most parents would do when they are panicked in this situation. No guilt there, therefore, it has to be something more,IMO.

Continuing on, the parents could have no way of knowing when they walked in the baby's room and discovered her not breathing that her death was caused by them giving her too much of or a simply wrong medication. Why or how would they suspect this? Only in one case, again IMO. That is if it was done intentionally . Otherwise, any loving mother or father couldn't be more worried about their own guilt about a mistake than they were about their own daughters life, to the point they would not immediately call 911.

SID's (sudden infant death syndrome) happens every day. Not to mention it could have been any number of other things, choking on a bottle? By the way, you're not supposed to put a baby to bed with a bottle because of the chance of aspiration. Did the mother not know this, or did she have more important things on her mind? This wasn't her first experience at being a mother, so I think she knew this simple fact. Something more is going on, accident, possibly, but more than over the counter cold meds.
JMO

My apologies, and yes, I do feel like a total idiot. I thought I had posted this similar comment on another Lisa thread, but now I see I posted it twice on the same thread. I must be really losing it...:crazy:

 

[lag28wa]

Mom's don't give up on their babies if there's an accident .They get help. They do everything they can to get that child breathing ,unless there is criminal activity involved ,IMO. Even then,most mom's would get help .

I've told the story in Caylee's thread how my husband worked so hard on our son until EMS came ,and he had no signs of life.Still ,my husband had hope. You just don't automatically get to "he/she's dead" Your brain won't let you.He was hopeful with me on the phone and I had no idea my son was dead. I was at the ER door when the ambulance arrived and wanted to go back with him.The dr said "first let me see if there is anything I can do for him". Still ,I knew they could save him and I would yell at my son for scaring us . But he was gone. I wanted them to keep trying . It was unfathomable the dr would stop.

When I was growing up we knew a family who's little boy was backed over in the driveway by a delivery truck and was decapitated.His mom tried to put his head back on. Mom's don't give up and they don't let go. They don't make an accident look like a kidnapping . They don't nap with kittens hours later ,unless it was intentional. JMO

It still could be a kidnapping .I'm not ruling that out ,yet.But not an accident IMO.

I totally agree with you, I know what I would be doing if I found my baby in his crib and appearing not to breathe.

Sometimes I wonder though that if people who do try to coverup accidents have something wrong upstairs. Obviously not thinking rationally. And maybe they never shared that close of a bond with the child in question. Or maybe the accident was due to some form of negligence, which is a conscious decision, so almost subconsciously intentional.

I very sorry for your family's loss and thank you for spreading the word about what happened, hopefully another family is able to prevent it from happening to them:heart:

 

[neesaki]

Actually you posted that on this thread and I answered ,LOL.

We are all having thread overload in this case.

I know, I realized it shortly after, I got rather confused when the Lisa threads changed. I do feel rather sillly, and thanks for being so sweet about it. Truly, I'm not usually that vocal :blushing:

 

[JBean]

Does there have to be a separate thread for everything? Makes it kinda hard to actually follow things.... Just my opinion.

well we could go back to having one thread, but ???

Another way to look at it is you can post about things that are of interest to you and not bother with the topics that you may not feel like discussing.

Usually new developments get a new thread and so you can see what is happening much more quickly than if it becomes buried in a thread about everything.

Give it a chance, I think you will come to appreciate a whole forum where info can be bumped,revisited, and even organized for retrieval as opposed to locked threads with loads of good information that cannot be resurrected within a single thread.

 

[neesaki]

Mom's don't give up on their babies if there's an accident .They get help. They do everything they can to get that child breathing ,unless there is criminal activity involved ,IMO. Even then,most mom's would get help .

I've told the story in Caylee's thread how my husband worked so hard on our son until EMS came ,and he had no signs of life.Still ,my husband had hope. You just don't automatically get to "he/she's dead" Your brain won't let you.He was hopeful with me on the phone and I had no idea my son was dead. I was at the ER door when the ambulance arrived and wanted to go back with him.The dr said "first let me see if there is anything I can do for him". Still ,I knew they could save him and I would yell at my son for scaring us . But he was gone. I wanted them to keep trying . It was unfathomable the dr would stop.

When I was growing up we knew a family who's little boy was backed over in the driveway by a delivery truck and was decapitated.His mom tried to put his head back on. Mom's don't give up and they don't let go. They don't make an accident look like a kidnapping . They don't nap with kittens hours later ,unless it was intentional. JMO

It still could be a kidnapping .I'm not ruling that out ,yet.But not an accident IMO.

Seems we're pretty much on the same page, wholeheartedly agree .

 

[neesaki]

well we could go back to having one thread, but ???

Another way to look at it is you can post about things that are of interest to you and not bother with the topics that you may not feel like discussing.

Usually new developments get a new thread and so you can see what is happening much more quickly than if it becomes buried in a thread about everything.

Give it a chance, I think you will come to appreciate a whole forum where info can be bumped,revisited, and even organized for retrieval as opposed to locked threads with loads of good information that cannot be resurrected within a single thread.

It is harder to follow, as you probably see, I got kind of messed up, lol. But I understand as I realize the general threads get so, so long. And thanks for all your hard work.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

:crazy: I could have sworn when I left this thread that we were waiting for the new family spokesperson to give a statement.

I don't see a new thread for this statement.

Did the spokesperson fizzle?

tia

 

[Colt46]

Thankx tl - we needed something like this.

I'm very much wondering about vehicles. I have seen nothing mentioned in MSM about the family's vehicles. How many - did mom have a car and dad have a car? Or was there only one vehicle for the family? If only one - then did dad take the car to work? Or did dad manage to arrange a ride to and from work so mom would have the car?

And also - what are the boys saying? They are certainly old enough to be able to talk about that night and what went on.

Still very early in this investigation and so many questions.

I wondered the same thing. JI was driving a company truck with a logo on the door. There must have been at least 1 family car at DB's disposal.

I agree about the boys - if anything untoward happened in the house that might, there were witnesses. Undoubtedly, they were questioned by the police. If they gave any hint of the parent's involvement in Lisa's death, I'm sure they would have been put in child protective custody.

So far, nothing seems to point to the parent's involovement. It could actually be a bona fide case of kidnapping....but why am I not 100% convinced?

 

[grandmaj]

:crazy: I could have sworn when I left this thread that we were waiting for the new family spokesperson to give a statement.

I don't see a new thread for this statement.

Did the spokesperson fizzle?

tia

Here you go it has it's own thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151200&page=10

 

[egs]

Mom's don't give up on their babies if there's an accident .They get help. They do everything they can to get that child breathing ,unless there is criminal activity involved ,IMO. Even then,most mom's would get help .

I've told the story in Caylee's thread how my husband worked so hard on our son until EMS came ,and he had no signs of life.Still ,my husband had hope. You just don't automatically get to "he/she's dead" Your brain won't let you.He was hopeful with me on the phone and I had no idea my son was dead. I was at the ER door when the ambulance arrived and wanted to go back with him.The dr said "first let me see if there is anything I can do for him". Still ,I knew they could save him and I would yell at my son for scaring us . But he was gone. I wanted them to keep trying . It was unfathomable the dr would stop.

When I was growing up we knew a family who's little boy was backed over in the driveway by a delivery truck and was decapitated.His mom tried to put his head back on. Mom's don't give up and they don't let go. They don't make an accident look like a kidnapping . They don't nap with kittens hours later ,unless it was intentional. JMO

It still could be a kidnapping .I'm not ruling that out ,yet.But not an accident IMO.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and you put into words perfectly what I have been thinking all along. Thank you!

 

[RJA00]

I hear what you are saying, but out of the 17 threads for Lisa Irwin many of them are discussing the same thing right now...

Cannot find the thread I was reading and commenting on....I find this too frustrating to follow....good night all!!!!

Hi

what I do ... Is click on my user name then statics and then you can click on a link that takes you to all of your post you have made.

 

[Jennerbear]

This is a little strange - but I'm posting it anyway. Last Monday night - Oct. 3 - I had a dream that I had a blonde (short) hair, blue eyed baby. I wondered how I got her since I have dark haired babies with muppet hair.

In the dream, the baby was sitting on my lap whilst I was driving down the street. The baby was about 10 months old. Then, we were at a yard sale on some random corner - and I couldn't find my baby. Some hispanic workers were building a red brick fence right behind me. One of them pointed out that my baby was on the ground under the table. I looked down and sure enough my baby was on the ground, but dried and shrunk some. I nursed the baby and it was restored to health. I got in my car and drove away, I pulled down the visor to look at my baby in the mirror, but the baby's face had changed. It now had the face of a man that looked like a young Keifer Sutherland (but with a normal/slender nose - not to be mean but... yeah) with a beard. The shock made me crash and the baby was gone again. I found parts of the car and stroller all around and up in a tree, but the baby was gone.

I woke up Tuesday and shared this bizarre dream with my family. Then, Wednesday I saw something about Lisa (possibly MSN) - and I told my family, "That's the baby from my dream!!!!" I'm telling you she looks IDENTICAL to the dream baby. It was very bizarre. I have no idea why I'm posting this, because it probably is nothing... but it was driving me crazy.

I've had some dreams come true before... I look at them as a gift from God... but it isn't something I could ever control. Anyway, just throwing that out there.

 

[iluvmua]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/12/ap/business/main20119020.shtml

 

[tink92]

I sat and thought about this a good long while a few weeks ago on another missing child thread here. I'm still stumped.

I am having a really hard time remembering any cases where a child was accidently killed and the parent hid the body. Took the child's body out and just disposed of it. Even parents that were under the influence of something, all the one's I remember where that happened the parents called 911 as soon as they realized the child was unresponsive. Took their lumps (some were charged).

An accident scenario doesn't work for me JMHO. Not saying that the parents did anything to Lisa---just saying an accident theory doesn't work for me.

I try not to personalize the cases on here but I can't imagine either being under the influence or accidently giving one of my own children too much meds or discovering that one of their siblings had given them too much meds---and not calling 911--but instead just disposing of my child. In my mind I have to rule an accident theory out and continue to narrow down the possibilities from there. Just sharing my thoughts.

EXACTLY! Iam stumped that so many here think this could be an "accident gone wrong"
Did we learn nothing from the casey anthony trial?

According to Dr G 100% of the time after an accident a parent will call 911.
No way has mom overdosed her baby on meds then just disposed of her body like trash...no way!!

There has been lots of cases of children abducted from there beds...This is what Iam leaning towards here. It is very very possible that this is what happened. Because it DOES happen...right under the noses of people who were sleeping in the same ROOM in some cases!!

And who said upthread that paedos prefer boys??? i have never heard that!

 

[greenpalm]

I have 4 kids and we travel out of MCI to PA and FL twice a year....we have never been asked for ID for any of our children until 2 years ago when my daughter turned 19....they always ask for my ID and my husbands ID and compare that to the name on our tickets....we traveled with our daughter when she was 7 months old to PA and had a seat for her as we took her in her carseat....never were we asked to show any proof that she belonged to us.....just our own ID....I am not sure if everyone has the same experience or not but I am in a wheelchair and things get a bit hectic with us at the airports anyway....but I know I do not travel with my kids' birth certificates, they do not have any of their own ID (except for my oldest daughter who is of driving age)...my 3 kids still at home are 7, 12, & 13....all that has ever been done is the checking of parents verified ID and passed on through...both going out and when coming back.

I looked at just two airlines info on traveling with a lap child.

They seem fairly close in requirements. You might be asked for ID on the child on domestic flights (I take that to mean---might not too).

AA said:



But both, United and American won't let you reserve place for a lapchild unless you call in as opposed to just purchasing on internet.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/childrenTraveling.jsp
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,1051,00.html

Just some info.

One would have to be fairly positive that an airline would not ask for ID...I know I sure would not risk that if I had just stolen a child, not when you can get away in a vehicle pretty quickly. If she was kidnapped.

Birth certificate doesn't have a photo so I suppose one can be prepared with some other child's birth certificate? I do doubt somebody would take a kidnapped child to the airport but one never knows.

In the past 5 years, I've probably flown about 6 times with a lap child. I bought all of my tickets from the American Airlines website and not once has anyone ever asked to see the ID of any of my children. I always have their birth certificates with me just in case but nobody has ever asked. About 3 years ago, I had a 2 year old and an infant with me. The toddler had her own seat but they still didn't ask to see any ID for her. Of course, I was obviously stressed already so they probably didn't want to add to it. :crazy:

That would be a pretty bold move though to take a kidnapped baby to the airport. Of course, if it was a kidnapping, we're dealing with someone who left all the lights on in the house... :waitasec:

Yes! Absolutely! I have traveled several times with my son, both as an infant and a very young toddler and have never even experienced a batted eye-lash. Even when I traveled with him WITHOUT my husband. I would think that parent abductions are somewhat common so you'd think they'd be more cautious about the parents not traveling together.

I guess it's a little better that we have always bought a seat for my son, so he has his own ticket and his name matches my/our name(s) so maybe they feel better about that. But with baby Lisa, she doesn't need ID or a ticket or anything of any kind, she might as well be a stuffed teddy bear, she's treated about the same! I know they ask at the gate how many lap children are traveling, I assume so that in the case of an emergency they know how many passengers they need to locate, but I don't think they ask for a name or anything, just a head count. I could be wrong on that last part though.

I've been traveling by air with three children for 11 years. All my kids have their own frequent flyer accounts. After I flew with my oldest at 9 months, I swore I'd never do a lap baby again. We've bought tickets for them, rather than going lap-child, even when they were young enough to save the money. They definitely ask the child's name. They write it in the flight manifesto. They also put a big neon sticker on my boarding pass saying "infant" and they add the child's name there.

When we go through security now, the TSA officers look at the boarding passes, and then they look at the five of us. They say, "who is Bobby" and they look at the kids to see if they'll answer for themselves. They have never asked for ID from the kids unless its international. But you wouldn't expect an infant to answer.

My 11 YO flew alone for the first time last summer. in that case he had to have photo ID, even for a domestic flight. We have traveled internationally so, he used his passport.

I don't think it would be that difficult to get on a plane with an infant w/o ID. with the Amber alert issued though, I'll see what I can find about airports & amber alerts. I bet they get the notice. I'd wonder too, since I live in Texas, surely Border patrol gets those Amber Alerts too? They must, right? I hope so!