Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[Richard]

I don't think so. Thousands of people get pulled over for traffic violations and that does not mean that they don't know how to drive a car....

I was not referring to a thousand other people, but rather to Lloyd Welch, subject of this thread.

Perhaps your definition of knowing how to drive a car is different from mine. I have always believed that if someone knows how to drive a car proficiently enough to get a driver's license in one of over 50 states, territories, or foreign countries, then they have proven to some authority that knowledge.

Welch did not do that. He either took and failed the driver's test at some point - or never even knew enough to get that far. Not by 1977 when he was pulled over. AND with that open violation STILL on his record, it is likely that he never got a Maryland Drivers License at any time after that date.

 

[isilverbell]

Does anyone know if RAW Sr. had any daughters? And specifically daughters who ever attended Catholic School or a school requiring a uniform? Just wondering if in Marshall Deitz's account of seeing Sheila in a plaid school girl skirt in the car in Manassas, VA could tie into RAW's using his own daughter's clothes for the girls? I know not everyone is convinced that the information was relevant to this investigation, but supposing it is, it may be worth looking into.

 

[Motherof5]

Does anyone know if RAW Sr. had any daughters? And specifically daughters who ever attended Catholic School or a school requiring a uniform? Just wondering if in Marshall Deitz's account of seeing Sheila in a plaid school girl skirt in the car in Manassas, VA could tie into RAW's using his own daughter's clothes for the girls? I know not everyone is convinced that the information was relevant to this investigation, but supposing it is, it may be worth looking into.

I believe he does have a daughter.


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[Motherof5]

beachlvr0810: I was wondering, are you under a gag order regarding the Lyon sisters case?
Thank you in advance for answering.

I sure hope not. Any family members under gag order would get into trouble for posting about the case here.


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[steveP120]

Police press conference has not been held yet, but Washington DC news radio is teasing a new police press conference about the Lyon sisters.

Something about a station wagon, that was seen both in Wheaton and Taylor Mountain VA. The police hope the station wagon still exists and are looking for it.

It sounds like the police sent out a press release to news outlets and more information will be released at press conference.

 

[Richard]

Police press conference has not been held yet, but Washington DC news radio is teasing a new police press conference about the Lyon sisters.

Something about a station wagon, that was seen both in Wheaton and Taylor Mountain VA. The police hope the station wagon still exists and are looking for it.

It sounds like the police sent out a press release to news outlets and more information will be released at press conference.

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The Station Wagon referred to is probably related to the story of the sighting reported on Monday morning, 7 April 1975 in downtown Manassas, Virginia.

That vehicle was described by an IBM employee as a Tan or Beige 1968 Ford Station Wagon with what he thought was a Maryland tag DMT-6xx (he said the tag was bent and he could not make out the last two digits). The driver of the car was said to resemble the unidentified suspect known as the Tape Recorder Man, and the IBM man stated that he believed that there was a girl or girls tied up in the back of the station wagon. The driver of the station wagon went through a red light and sped away in a westerly direction. This story became the focus of the investigation for several weeks.

Another man, who has posted on these threads, also stated that he had seen the same incident, but he describes the vehicle a little differently. He stated that it was a Ford Station Wagon also, but felt that it was a newer model (like early 1970's) with a blue interior (which would mean some other exterior than tan or beige).

There were a number of different Ford station wagon models, but the predominant one in that time frame was one which featured brown or tan fake wood paneling on the sides and tailgate.

It should be noted that if the Manassas sightings of the station wagon was in fact a sighting of the Lyon Sisters, it would mean that they had been kept alive for two weeks after their 25 March 1975 disappearance from Wheaton Plaza/Kensington.

Station wagons are few and far between today. Most car companies stopped making them in the 1990's when the Mini-Van made its debut. Since they are not considered a really desirable "classic" vehicle by most antique car buffs, they tended to be driven until they died and then ended up in junk yards. There are, however, examples of all Ford Station Wagons in existence, many of them carefully restored to origional condition.

It would be a long shot that the station wagon in question still exists, but if it does, it would be a great find for law enforcement. Even today, after almost 40 years, DNA or other physical evidence might be found inside it. Even just knowing its Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) would be a huge clue for tracing it to its 1975 owner.

 

[steveP120]

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The Station Wagon referred to is probably related to the story of the sighting reported on Monday morning, 7 April 1975 in downtown Manassas, Virginia.

My guess was the Pinto station wagon owned by the second person of interest.

But we will find out at the press conference. In any case, Richard is right that station wagons were as common as mini-vans are today. Station wagons were the family cars, mini-vans of the 60s and 70s.

Once a car is taken off the road, in a junkyard, is there any way for police to track the cars. I think the insurance and registration laws were lax in the 80s? I agree with Richard that I the few people collect station wagons, the market for spare parts must be long gone, and it would be luck if any station wagon of the 70s was still in a junkyard.

 

[steveP120]

It's not from the upcoming police conference, which was only teased as a future news story - stay tuned for..."
but from five days ago on that local VA station"

From: http://www.wset.com/story/27389878/...t-missing-alert-when-lyon-sisters-disappeared

"I got a phone call at home here in Bedford County from a cold case investigator in Montgomery County,” said Pauley. “She was calling because she had learned that I had lived a couple of years after this event in an area of Gaithersburg where their person of interest possibly could have lived."

Pauley said the investigator emailed him a picture of the man, but he did not recognize him. Pauley said he believes it's the same picture police released to the media. Lloyd Welch, Jr. and Richard "Dick" Welch have been named persons of interest.

 

[steveP120]

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The Station Wagon referred to is probably related to the story of the sighting reported on Monday morning, 7 April 1975 in downtown Manassas, Virginia.

.

Or the station wagon could be another, third, car that Lloyd stole; not the Pinto or Manassas station wagon.

Once the police realized Lloyd did not have his own car, and that Lloyd was a thief (although not a known car thief) I would hope the police looked into any cars stolen in Wheaton/Kensington that day.

Of course stations wagons were so common, that few people would remember or pay attention to one even for a day, unless it was something unusual like a carless Lloyd driving it.

 

[steveP120]

from that small, local TV station
http://www.wset.com/story/27379855/coast-guard-now-part-of-lyon-sisters-search-in-bedford-co

"Coast Guard (helicopter) Now Part of Lyon Sisters Search in Bedford Co.
....
A massive search of the mountain took place in September. The focus then was land along Taylor Mountain Road. The new search is closer to Cool Springs Road in Thaxton (nearby, other side of mountain).....

The persons of interest in the case Lloyd Welch, Jr. and his uncle Richard “Dick” Welch have family ties to the area. Dick Welch owns property on Taylor's Mountain and previously owned a lot on Spice Court in Thaxton, according to real estate records."

 

[steveP120]

(The news report has an image of the 1970s Pinto Wagon and I think the second person of interest, but I am not sure if this image is in the official release)

http://www.katv.com/story/27442117/investigators-looking-for-station-wagon-in-lyon-sisters-abduction

Bedford County Sheriff's Office Release:



In the ongoing investigation into the abduction of the Lyon sisters, a late 1960's or 1970's model station wagon has been associated with the crime. Investigators are asking that anyone in the public that has information about such a vehicle to come forward. This vehicle was seen in Virginia, specifically Bedford County, shortly after the abduction of Sheila and Katherine Lyon. This vehicle may have been hidden in, or removed from, a barn, shed or outbuilding. The public is asked to report any suspicious vehicles that they believe might assist law enforcement in furthering this investigation.

We are also announcing that WMAL radio would like to reconfirm their commitment to a $7000 reward that was offered on April 1, 1975 for information leading to the discovery of Sheila and Katherine Lyon. Although WMAL has undergone a series of ownership changes since 1975, Cumulus Media remains strongly committed to assisting in bringing closure to the Lyon Family.

 

[isilverbell]

To me the picture that was released today by the Sheriff's office is amazing because it backs up Marshall Dietz's sighting of Sheila Lyon on 7 April 1975. He described this exact car in his post and to see the POI next to it is incredible.

Interestingly enough, I checked out Marshall Dietz's Facebook page and it appears he is convinced that this whole search is a waste of time. It looks as though he is convinced it was DeBardeleben. Here is a link to his statements from an article posted on 11/8 and his statements on 11/17:

https://www.facebook.com/marshall.dietz?fref=ts

 

[steveP120]

From the Washington Post -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...890b88-70c1-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html

"In a statement Thursday, the Bedford County Sheriff’s Office said a station wagon, which “has been associated with the crime,” was seen in Bedford County “shortly after the abduction of Sheila and Katherine Lyon.”

Officials did not release a color or other specific characteristics of the car. But they indicated that people should call if they remember seeing such a car being towed from a piece of property."

 

[Richard]

Some interesting comments in today's press release. It seems that investigators are trying to connect the 7 April 1975 sighting(s) of a Ford Station Wagon in Manassas with the Bedford county searches.

Although they did not name either Welch POI in this latest release, at least one news outlet included a previously released photo, said to be Richard Welch standing beside a wood paneled station wagon. They also state that the vehicle might still be in Virginia or Maryland today.

Also, it is interesting to note that WMAL has re-stated their committment to the $7,000 reward first offered on 1 April 1975. It may be a connection to Lloyd Welch, as he had stated his intent to claim that reward and may have called MCP that day to offer information.

 

[RichardLewis]

Not sure what to make of Dietz's facebook comments. Why does he think the Annapolis court house ransom attempt was from the "actual" kidnapper and the failure to meet the demands resulted in the girls deaths? I wonder also what causes him to think it was DeBardeleben, and how LE could be wasting their time investigating the Welches? What evidence supports this, and what evidence rules out the Welches? Maybe Dietz really did see a SW with the girls in it a point in time 39 years ago, but how do you go from that one piece of the puzzle to these other claims...
Dietz writes that MCP "failed to coordinate with the FBI their activities on possible leads that were primarily the responsibility of the FBI – a failed ransom extortion in Annapolis by the 'actual' kidnapper that lead to the girls deaths." and "MCP's failure to disclose to the FBI that there were 2 independent eyewitnesses to the Lyon sisters sighting in Manassas on April 7th. Had the MCP disclosed the truth, DeBardeleben would have been caught, convicted and executed 8-years before his reign of terror ended."
Huh?

 

[Motherof5]

Not sure what to make of Dietz's facebook comments. Why does he think the Annapolis court house ransom attempt was from the "actual" kidnapper and the failure to meet the demands resulted in the girls deaths? I wonder also what causes him to think it was DeBardeleben, and how LE could be wasting their time investigating the Welches? What evidence supports this, and what evidence rules out the Welches? Maybe Dietz really did see a SW with the girls in it a point in time 39 years ago, but how do you go from that one piece of the puzzle to these other claims...
Dietz writes that MCP "failed to coordinate with the FBI their activities on possible leads that were primarily the responsibility of the FBI – a failed ransom extortion in Annapolis by the 'actual' kidnapper that lead to the girls deaths." and "MCP's failure to disclose to the FBI that there were 2 independent eyewitnesses to the Lyon sisters sighting in Manassas on April 7th. Had the MCP disclosed the truth, DeBardeleben would have been caught, convicted and executed 8-years before his reign of terror ended."
Huh?

Thank you!!!


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[steveP120]

Some interesting comments in today's press release.

I was disappointed that the press release contained no specific information. No make/model/color or owner of station wagon, or how soon after the crime the station wagon was seen. There was as much information in the tease of the story as there was in the story/press release.

While any car used in a 1975 may be long gone, didn't DNA evidence start getting good in the 1990s? I remember the Clinton/dress case and some Kennedy cousin case in the 1990s. If someone like that Kennedy cousin, committed a crime, but slowly watched DNA evidence get better, they might, like the Kennedy cousin, try to take steps to mitigate the evidence. In the case of a car, one might inquire or worry about where the car was?

Maybe there is evidence of someone trying to find out what happened to a station wagon in the 1990s even if the car is long gone?

I guess a person of interest could have a hidden criminal habit, like Bill Cosby (why couldn't he just be gay, or a drug addict or a regular sex addict doing every bimbo he could) but I still think the second person of interest at most helped move a body or lent a car.

 

[bessie]

fftopic:

Comparisons are fine IF they are relevant and do not dominate the discussion and take it off track.

Also, members are asked not to moderate the threads, nor tell others how to post. If there's a problem, that will only exacerbate it. Use the alert feature, or pm a mod. Then keep scrolling.

Thanks.

 

[steveP120]

I never thought Lloyd or his uncle were serial killers - more a one-time crime gone bad, but I assume the police by hook or crook got the DNA of all persons of interest and checked it against a database of DNA from every rape and/or murder in the country?

There was a gold mine of DNA of evidence from rapes and murders in the 70s and 80s when nobody, including criminals, thought they could be identified by their DNA in the 90s.

Is it safe to assume that there were not DNA matches with other victims, or they would be charged by now?

 

[Motherof5]

I never thought Lloyd or his uncle were serial killers - more a one-time crime gone bad, but I assume the police by hook or crook got the DNA of all persons of interest and checked it against a database of DNA from every rape and/or murder in the country?

There was a gold mine of DNA of evidence from rapes and murders in the 70s and 80s when nobody, including criminals, thought they could be identified by their DNA in the 90s.

Is it safe to assume that there were not DNA matches with other victims, or they would be charged by now?

Good question. I'm not sure. I assume they wouldn't have any trouble getting Lloyd Jr.'s DNA as he is already locked up for sex crimes. RWSr is a different story. They could ask for his DNA but right now he's just a POI,I think the grand jury could determine if he has to give DNA? I'm not sure though. Anyone in the know,please jump in. I don't think this was a one time thing though and that is JMO. LE has said that they will find out the truth about this crime and many others. That made me wonder what else LE thinks these two have done.


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