Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[Historydetective63]

RAW lived at 5229 42nd Place in Hyattsville, see attached picture. Note the detached garage behind the house. The house is currently vacant and in disrepair with multiple local ordinance infractions.

btw, this house is in proximity to 5602 37th Avenue, Hyattsville, where 18 year old Eileen Kelly lived with her parents before she was abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered in December 1974, just 3 months prior to the Lyon sisters disapearance. RAW's old residence is also just a few hundred feet from where Eileen Kelly and her family attended church at St. Jerome's.
View attachment 69811

Thanks for this photo of the house occupied by Richard and Patricia Welch in 1975. That detached garage is very interesting. I wonder if LE has executed a search warrant of this property? Even 40 years later, some trace evidence may still be present there.

 

[Richard]

When you read the 20 February 2015 Washington Post article about Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. Try to keep some things in mind and try to separate three distinctly different time frames.

1. The article discusses Lloyd talking with MCP on 1 April 1975 and stating that he was at the mall on 25 March 1975 and that he saw Sheila and Katherine get into a car with a man. He did not state that he was with them in the car and he does not identify the man by name.

2. The article also mentions a recent afidavit which states that MCP investigators interviewed Lloyd in prison in 2013 and that he admited being at the mall, riding in a car with the the girls, his uncle Dick, and his cousin Tommy. Further, that he later walked in on his uncle in the porcess of raping one of the girls. It was this information that police used to obtain search warrants in 2014.

3. The Washington post reporter also states that Lloyd sent the paper a letter in 2014 denying any involvement whatsoever in the Lyon sisters' disappearance.

The story about the Lloyd going to a security guard at the mall seems very questionable to me. First, we have Lloyd's stepmother's statement that Lloyd, sitting on her couch in her home, stated to her that he was going to call in a tip for the $7000 reward AND that he subsequently did that. This on 1 April 1975, the day that the Tape Recorder Man story broke, the day that the $7000 WMAL reward was offered, and the same date that MCP has in their records with Lloyd's name and his mother's Baltimore Ave, Hyattsville address.

Why would Lloyd travel all the way from Hyattsville to Wheaton Plaza on 1 April 1975 to look for some unnamed rent-a-cop to relate his story to? And if he really did do that, why would MCP have been asking (in 2014) if anyone could give them information regarding the security guards at Wheaton Plaza??? They would have had all that in their files if a security guard had been the one to hold Lloyd and call them in.

None of the security guard tale makes any sense - unless the reporter some how got the story wrong. Perhaps a security guard was in the mix some how, but the Washington Post article misstated it. If Lloyd wanted to collect a large reward, he would not have included a security guard who could also claim it for his part in contacting MCP. There is the possibility that the unidentified girl who described the Long Haired Man following her and the Lyon girls might have reported her information first to a security guard.

A big problem with Lloyd is that he couldn't tell the truth if he stepped in it - according to many different sources. As a witness in court, he would be a very poor one. Also, there is probably a substantial amount of information in records available concerning Lloyd's mental condition. If he were to be charged with abduction or conspiracy to abduct, it would be solely on his own widely conflicting statements at this point. Was he mentally competant to understand his rights when read to him in 1975 (were they read to him then) or in 2013 when interviewed in prison? If not, any and all evidence subsequently obtained (against him) would be excluded from trial. Would he be deemed mentally competant to stand trial?

However, MCP and and the judge who issued the search warrants considered his story strong enough to search in Hyattsville and in Bedford County, VA. IF significant, tangible evidence has turned up, then they would have a strong case against others WITHOUT Lloyd's testimony on the stand. It would seem that LE is more likely pursuing Richard Welch, with Lloyd as a witness but that some members of the Welch family are blaming only Lloyd. Not an easy case.

There are a number of possible scenarios in regard to Lloyd Welch and his stories:

1. He may have been simply an eyewitness who saw the girls and watched a man - unknown to him - put them in his car and drive away. His 2013 statements, which include his uncle and cousin, could all have been fantasy or lies to MCP.

2. He might have been the one and only abductor of the girls, who made up a story about a ficticious man in 1975 in a crazed attempt to collect a reward. And later in 2013, attempted to minimize his own guilt and throw suspician on completely innocent relatives.

3. He might have been part of a "team" - either as an equal partner or as a mentally disabled person who was "used" by someone else to abduct the girls. This could have been his uncle or another person, yet unnamed. His stories are an attempt to minimize his participation and implicate others.

4. He could have made it all up from the start and was not even at the mall, but wanted to get into the act and try to get either the reward or some recognition. Later, in prison, he was so far gone mentally that he simply made up more stories for MCP.

Or perhaps some combination of the above.

 

[siriunsun]

When you read the 20 February 2015 Washington Post article about Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. Try to keep some things in mind and try to separate three distinctly different time frames.

1. The article discusses Lloyd talking with MCP on 1 April 1975 and stating that he was at the mall on 25 March 1975 and that he saw Sheila and Katherine get into a car with a man. He did not state that he was with them in the car and he does not identify the man by name.

2. The article also mentions a recent afidavit which states that MCP investigators interviewed Lloyd in prison in 2013 and that he admited being at the mall, riding in a car with the the girls, his uncle Dick, and his cousin Tommy. Further, that he later walked in on his uncle in the porcess of raping one of the girls. It was this information that police used to obtain search warrants in 2014.

3. The Washington post reporter also states that Lloyd sent the paper a letter in 2014 denying any involvement whatsoever in the Lyon sisters' disappearance.

The story about the Lloyd going to a security guard at the mall seems very questionable to me. First, we have Lloyd's stepmother's statement that Lloyd, sitting on her couch in her home, stated to her that he was going to call in a tip for the $7000 reward AND that he subsequently did that. This on 1 April 1975, the day that the Tape Recorder Man story broke, the day that the $7000 WMAL reward was offered, and the same date that MCP has in their records with Lloyd's name and his mother's Baltimore Ave, Hyattsville address.

Why would Lloyd travel all the way from Hyattsville to Wheaton Plaza on 1 April 1975 to look for some unnamed rent-a-cop to relate his story to? And if he really did do that, why would MCP have been asking (in 2014) if anyone could give them information regarding the security guards at Wheaton Plaza??? They would have had all that in their files if a security guard had been the one to hold Lloyd and call them in.

None of the security guard tale makes any sense - unless the reporter some how got the story wrong. Perhaps a security guard was in the mix some how, but the Washington Post article misstated it. If Lloyd wanted to collect a large reward, he would not have included a security guard who could also claim it for his part in contacting MCP. There is the possibility that the unidentified girl who described the Long Haired Man following her and the Lyon girls might have reported her information first to a security guard.

A big problem with Lloyd is that he couldn't tell the truth if he stepped in it - according to many different sources. As a witness in court, he would be a very poor one. Also, there is probably a substantial amount of information in records available concerning Lloyd's mental condition. If he were to be charged with abduction or conspiracy to abduct, it would be solely on his own widely conflicting statements at this point. Was he mentally competant to understand his rights when read to him in 1975 (were they read to him then) or in 2013 when interviewed in prison? If not, any and all evidence subsequently obtained (against him) would be excluded from trial. Would he be deemed mentally competant to stand trial?

However, MCP and and the judge who issued the search warrants considered his story strong enough to search in Hyattsville and in Bedford County, VA. IF significant, tangible evidence has turned up, then they would have a strong case against others WITHOUT Lloyd's testimony on the stand. It would seem that LE is more likely pursuing Richard Welch, with Lloyd as a witness but that some members of the Welch family are blaming only Lloyd. Not an easy case.

There are a number of possible scenarios in regard to Lloyd Welch and his stories:

1. He may have been simply an eyewitness who saw the girls and watched a man - unknown to him - put them in his car and drive away. His 2013 statements, which include his uncle and cousin, could all have been fantasy or lies to MCP.

2. He might have been the one and only abductor of the girls, who made up a story about a ficticious man in 1975 in a crazed attempt to collect a reward. And later in 2013, attempted to minimize his own guilt and throw suspician on completely innocent relatives.

3. He might have been part of a "team" - either as an equal partner or as a mentally disabled person who was "used" by someone else to abduct the girls. This could have been his uncle or another person, yet unnamed. His stories are an attempt to minimize his participation and implicate others.

4. He could have made it all up from the start and was not even at the mall, but wanted to get into the act and try to get either the reward or some recognition. Later, in prison, he was so far gone mentally that he simply made up more stories for MCP.

Or perhaps some combination of the above.

Seriously, Richard? Even if he only saw the girls leave in a vehicle, I'm sure that by the end of that day, he was aware that the two girls were missing. Don't you think the right and LAWFUL thing to do would have been to report the crime immediately? Taking him at his word right now, I say throw the book at him, if not for kidnapping or accessory to the same, for interfering with police, contempt of court, perjury, and tampering with evidence. And anything else that can go with it.

Generally, competence to stand trial refers to a defendant's ability to assist in his own defense, which LLW appears capable of doing. His lawyer, whoever that is, has not shut down interviews and communications with MoCo police, so if the remains of Sheila and Katherine have been found, I think a trial is forthcoming.

 

[siriunsun]

It seems as if he knows too much about the crime, itself, to be uninvolved. I'm sure a preliminary hearing will be scheduled as soon as the lab is finished analyzing the evidence.

 

[steveP120]

The story about the Lloyd going to a security guard at the mall seems very questionable to me. First, we have Lloyd's stepmother's statement that Lloyd, sitting on her couch in her home, stated to her that he was going to call in a tip for the $7000 reward AND that he subsequently did that. This on 1 April 1975, the day that the Tape Recorder Man story broke, the day that the $7000 WMAL reward was offered, and the same date that MCP has in their records with Lloyd's name and his mother's Baltimore Ave, Hyattsville address.

Why would Lloyd travel all the way from Hyattsville to Wheaton Plaza on 1 April 1975 to look for some unnamed rent-a-cop to relate his story to? And if he really did do that, why would MCP have been asking (in 2014) if anyone could give them information regarding the security guards at Wheaton Plaza??? They would have had all that in their files if a security guard had been the one to hold Lloyd and call them in.

None of the security guard tale makes any sense - unless the reporter some how got the story wrong. Perhaps a security guard was in the mix some how, but the Washington Post article misstated it. If Lloyd wanted to collect a large reward, he would not have included a security guard who could also claim it for his part in contacting MCP. There is the possibility that the unidentified girl who described the Long Haired Man following her and the Lyon girls might have reported her information first to a security guard.

A big problem with Lloyd is that he couldn't tell the truth if he stepped in it - according to many different sources. As a witness in court, he would be a very poor one. Also, there is probably a substantial amount of information in records available concerning Lloyd's mental condition.

Unless the police come up with DNA evidence, I was about to give up hope this case would be solved since all the police have is a good suspect, decades old rumors, and a mentally ill liar.

Telling the security guard does not seem odd to me. First, Lloyd loved to hang out at the mall, so it would actually be a struggle for him to keep away from the mall, just as I would have to go out of my way to avoid the mall/plaza since I live near it. Of course Lloyd liked checking out jailbait at the mall, while it's just stores to me.

One might speculate that someone who committed a crime at the mall would try to stay away until the heat died down. If Lloyd did more than look at the girls, he would have no idea if anyone saw him with the girls. Of course Lloyd could have been a total idiot and for some reason, some criminals do return to the scene of the crime.

I don't think we know for sure if Lloyd telephoned the police, although he told his stepmother he would do so. If Lloyd was shooting his mouth off to his stepmother and girlfriend (later wife) about knowing something, it's likely he was shooting his mouth off to his mall friends. Just as his stepmother did not believe Lloyd enough to insist on him calling the police right there, it's likely anyone else Lloyd told did not believe him, or thought what he saw was not important. Just seeing the two girls at the mall is not the same as seeing someone push them into a car. The two boy in the car that saw (the?) girls on Drumm (only one boy knew the girls) did not think it was important enough to contact the police until a week later.

It would be nice to know if Lloyd walked up to the security guard, maybe a security guard he was slightly friendly with, or if some other kids pointed out Lloyd out as someone who was mouthing off about knowing something.

The police obviously did not believe Lloyd in 1975 and gave him a lie detector test. Lloyd may have flunked the lie detector test if he lied about why he was watching the girls; even idiot Lloyd would not say, "I like young girls to a cop." Lloyd was likely up to other petty criminal activity such as shoplifting and underage drinking or drugs. Or Lloyd could have read the description of TRM in the newspaper and added that to his seeing the girls to increase his chance of getting the reward.

It looks like very bad record keeping by the Montgomery County Police to not have recorded the security guards names. Likewise, not to notice that Lloyd was the person in the sketch was very bad luck (for the police). The only excuse I can think of for the bad/no record keeping is that the police were putting all their effort into trying to find the girls alive.

It's odd that Lloyd never mention the police interview and lie detector test to his stepmother.

It's possible that Lloyd has half a brain, and if he is guilty was/is trying to send the police down the wrong path, away from where Lloyd knows the bodies are buried, which would be near the mall.

But I think it's more likely that Lloyd's recent statements are a combination of the his mental weakness and the police using tricky tactics. A smart detective could have talked someone like Lloyd into saying "maybe" or "it could have happened" to almost anything. I have no idea if the American Sniper murderer is legally insane, but it's obvious that the police talked a mentally ill person into saying he knew what he was doing was wrong with leading questions. My guess is that the police know anything Lloyd said is worthless, but they just used the statements to get the search warrants.

Besides DNA, if any, the only other evidence the police may have is a half dozen or so women who came forward in 2014 saying someone (one of the two persons of interest?) tried to lead them to the parking lot (using a fake security guard badge?). Even if one of the persons of interest was doing a sex-for-getting-away-with-shoplifting scam, it's a far cry from kidnapping and murder.

 

[zach1900]

I wasn't even born yet when these young girls went missing, I can't wrap my head around how their parents have coped for nearly 40 years.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Yes, I saw this photo on Google map for the property previously owned by Allen and Elizabeth Parker. I noticed what looked like a trailer or mobile home, possibly sitting on a trailer which moved it (?) I also noticed a corresponding impression in the ground near the road which looks like the spot the trailer used to sit. Is that correct? Was that the area where the forensic dig was conducted? From what you have said the trailer is no longer on the property because the "new" owner had it removed. I wonder if LE located the trailer as part of their investigation. In the recent photos taken during the forensic dig in January I believe I noticed a "For Sale by Owner" sign in the background. Is the current owner selling the property?

I haven't been past the house in a few weeks due to all of the snow we've had, and these mountain roads can be dangerous, but the last time I was there, the "For Sale" sign was still up. I had heard months ago through the grapevine that the owner was going to sell it.

I can't definitely say exactly where the forensic digs had happened...I didn't drive through that area while they were digging out of respect for the request that Sheriff Mike Brown made. After the FBI had left, I did stop by the side of the road one day to try and figure out where they had been digging. In one of the videos it looked like they were at the edge of the road to the left of the house...that area looks like where a vegetable garden was. On the right side of the 2nd driveway that led up to where the trailer sat, it looked like the videos were showing this area to be where the forensic team was washing the soil through the screens...I'm pretty sure I saw what looked like a small pit like hole in that area in one of the photos or videos...possibly where the water, debris and dirt was being flushed into? I hope I've answered your questions...it's hard to explain it without being able to post my photos where I could show you.

 

[zach1900]

Can you tell me apx .how many houses are on Taylor Mtn. , and there is indeed a cemetery?

 

[zach1900]

I hope this atrocious act happened in Virginia, just because of the death penalty.

 

[zach1900]

Beach, I find your posts so vivid and informative and slightly haunting , I say haunting because I always imagine what something looks like never have seeing it.

 

[gregjrichards]

I wasn't even born yet when these young girls went missing, I can't wrap my head around how their parents have coped for nearly 40 years.

Me neither I'm only 30 and I feel so sorry for the Lyon and Patz families particularly from the cases here. It must be agony not knowing the truth about what happened, who did it or being able to give their loved ones a proper burial. I always light a candle at mass for them. It must be so very difficult hearing statements about what might have happened and not knowing if it's the truth they are being told.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Can you tell me apx .how many houses are on Taylor Mtn. , and there is indeed a cemetery?

Hi zach1900...it's hard to say how many houses or even give you an approximate number of houses there are on Taylor's Mountain because there are so many little roads and inlets, a lot blocked by gates...people from the city and out of state have started buying up the land and moving here, so it's hard to say. Once all this snow is gone, I can ride around all 3 main roads and give you a number of how many homes I can visually see, but that wouldn't be a true number of how many are really there.

As for the cemetery...are you talking about the one that's behind Allen and Lizzie's house, where the search and forsenic digs have been done?

 

[beachlvr0810]

Beach, I find your posts so vivid and informative and slightly haunting , I say haunting because I always imagine what something looks like never have seeing it.

Thank you, zach1900! If you want to see what our mountain looks like, I'd love for you to visit my Taylor's Mountain Descendents' Facebook page...I have videos on there of the mountain, but they don't do it justice...you'd really have to ride around there in person to see how beautiful and haunting it can be.

 

[zach1900]

Yes , awesome thank you...I remember reading an article about the dig at Taylor mountain and the mention of maybe 30 cemetery plots, a family plot perhaps.

 

[zach1900]

Taylor's mountain is outside of Roanoke I think.

 

[zach1900]

gregjrichards, I am just now reading about Etan, honestly these missing kids , especially from decades past are really starting to depress and anger me, I just can't imagine the sick mind that would harm, and even kill a child or anybody for that matter. I don't want to think what happened to these poor babies.

 

[TedMac]

I hope this atrocious act happened in Virginia, just because of the death penalty.

I believe it will be tried in MD since the abduction occurred there.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I'm so glad to learn of progress in this case. I've followed along thru the years but don't know alot of details. I found the composite sketch side by side with LLW mug shot and it is interesting how closely they resemble one another. Can someone tell me who the composite of the man with short hair is supposed to be? It it TRM? Thanks!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/lyon-sisters-update_n_5837838.html

 

[Fukiyama]

The composite of the man with short hair is TRM, yes.

 

[Richard]

Seriously, Richard? Even if he only saw the girls leave in a vehicle, I'm sure that by the end of that day, he was aware that the two girls were missing. Don't you think the right and LAWFUL thing to do would have been to report the crime immediately? Taking him at his word right now, I say throw the book at him, if not for kidnapping or accessory to the same, for interfering with police, contempt of court, perjury, and tampering with evidence. And anything else that can go with it.

Generally, competence to stand trial refers to a defendant's ability to assist in his own defense, which LLW appears capable of doing. His lawyer, whoever that is, has not shut down interviews and communications with MoCo police, so if the remains of Sheila and Katherine have been found, I think a trial is forthcoming.

What Lloyd Welch could or should have done is something that could be debated for ages. But what we have been told that he did and said is all that we have to go on. It is possible and likely that MCP has more information on and from Lloyd to frame their investigation and future prosecutions.

Mental competance covers a wide range of areas in regard to the law. Whether or not Lloyd can, should, or will be tried for anything will remain to be seen, but mental competance will most certainly be an issue that will need to be addressed. The same can be said if Lloyd is to be called as a witness against anyone else.

Since Lloyd has to date not been charged with anything, he does not have a lawyer appointed to defend or legally advise him. I hardly think that he has the ability or competance to defend himself in a court of law - nor do I think that his ability to do so should be considered a factor regarding his mental condition.

When asking whether or not Lloyd did the Right or Lawful thing regarding his alleged sighting of the girls, you have to consider the source. Lloyd is a Psycopath who has had many run-ins with the law. He wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it, and the same could be said of him regarding what is right or what is lawful. How would you expect him to know? His morality code is probably a little different than yours or mine.

We have no idea when Lloyd Welch first knew that the girls were missing - unless he was in fact responsible for or a participant in their abduction. His initial story on 1 April 1975 was that he SAW the girls get into a vehicle with an unknown man. We only know this today, 40 years after their disappearance, because MCP didn't deem his story credible at the time. We know that he made the statement because he wanted to collect the $7000 reward offered that day. As I pointed out in my earlier post, there are a number of possibilities in regard to Lloyd's widely varying stories between then and now. He could have made up his story on 1 April 1975 after reading the Washington Post.