Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[steveP120]

I think that is a great question.

I find it reasonable to believe that relatives of RAW recall his visit in 2014 and considered it strange or suspicious, though it is kind of odd for someone to remember a visit from LLW nearly 40 years ago unless the circumstances were really odd also.

I would be asking suspects and relatives how often LLW and RAW visited the area over the years.

Was it a regular occurrence?
How much time would elapse between visits?
Who did or who would they visit there?

While Virginia and Maryland are right next to each other on a map, it would take 3.5, 4 HOURS EACH WAY or longer in traffic (mostly near DC) to drive from Wheaton MD to Bedford.

I never drove to Bedford, but drove a few times to Virginia Tech, which is an hour longer. The point is that it's a very long road trip, taking up most of a day if done in one day. It's not like he stopped by his aunt's house on the way home from work. I can remember each time I drove to Virginia Tech decades ago

It would also be memorable if it was unusual for Lloyd, who has no car or drivers license, to show up on his own.
Lloyd might have been acting weirder than usual if he just committed a serious crime.

In the days before cell phones, it was more common for people to drop by unannounced.

 

[steveP120]

While Virginia and Maryland are right next to each other on a map, it would take 3.5, 4 HOURS EACH WAY or longer in traffic (mostly near DC) to drive from Wheaton MD to Bedford.

I can't tell from the published information if Richard and Patrica Welch's "unannounced" trip to relatives after the "new conference" was a day-long trip from Maryland or a short 15-minute drive from Bedford where they had to go for the grand jury.

If they drove all day, it looks like they might have done it to get their stories straight.
If they were 15 minutes away in Bedford from relatives, many people would visit relatives while in the area.

Curiosity leads people to gossip about what the police know, but if they were under a gag order, like most grand juries, they should have resisted to urge to (illegally) gossip.

 

[siriunsun]

I'm so glad to learn of progress in this case. I've followed along thru the years but don't know alot of details. I found the composite sketch side by side with LLW mug shot and it is interesting how closely they resemble one another. Can someone tell me who the composite of the man with short hair is supposed to be? It it TRM? Thanks!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/lyon-sisters-update_n_5837838.html

I honesty don't believe the grand jury or MoCo police have revealed that information. After looking at some things last night, I have a suspicion, but I will resist the urge to share it until we at least know if the remains found are those of Sheila and Katherine. The more I read about this case, the more angry I get.

 

[siriunsun]

While Virginia and Maryland are right next to each other on a map, it would take 3.5, 4 HOURS EACH WAY or longer in traffic (mostly near DC) to drive from Wheaton MD to Bedford.

I never drove to Bedford, but drove a few times to Virginia Tech, which is an hour longer. The point is that it's a very long road trip, taking up most of a day if done in one day. It's not like he stopped by his aunt's house on the way home from work. I can remember each time I drove to Virginia Tech decades ago

It would also be memorable if it was unusual for Lloyd, who has no car or drivers license, to show up on his own.
Lloyd might have been acting weirder than usual if he just committed a serious crime.

In the days before cell phones, it was more common for people to drop by unannounced.

He probably hitchhiked. You are right about driving in Virginia, it takes a lot of time. I can cover the same distance in the flat Midwest in a fraction of the the time. If he showed up unannounced, he probably created a ruckus by eating everyone's food without contributing anything and by stealing.

 

[siriunsun]

I think that is a great question.

I find it reasonable to believe that relatives of RAW recall his visit in 2014 and considered it strange or suspicious, though it is kind of odd for someone to remember a visit from LLW nearly 40 years ago unless the circumstances were really odd also.

I would be asking suspects and relatives how often LLW and RAW visited the area over the years.

Was it a regular occurrence?
How much time would elapse between visits?
Who did or who would they visit there?

I think Montgomery County police have already covered that ground, and I think they got answers, too.

 

[steveP120]

He probably hitchhiked.

If the bodies are on the mountain, I don't think Lloyd hitchhiked carrying two bodies.

But it's possible Lloyd stole some car in Wheaton, MD, drove and buried the bodies someplace he was familiar with as many killers do, the VA mountains, ditched the stolen car after burying the bodies, then started hitch hiking.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

I personally don't think the girls' lives were taken.

However, IF indeed LLW and his uncle RAW worked together, it would not surprise me if RAW provided LLW his own car. RAW had ALREADY PERHAPS have allowed his car to be used in the abduction.

Take a CLOSE look at what "graycat" has posted under the $7000 Reward thread.

I personally have done a lot of research to see if graycat's theories could be true.

So far, most of what I have found has supported what he initially found.

RAW, Sr. has a sister who perhaps was not able to have children.

graycat believes that the girls were taken to a relative in Virginia.

Then, at some point they disappeared from VA and ended up being raised by other Welchs in Texas.

One of them may have died in Texas of natural causes.

The other may be in another country doing work and helping people and children caught up in Human Trafficking.

Just do a search of your own and look up "Katherine WELCH" on Linkedin and see what you find.

 

[siriunsun]

If the bodies are on the mountain, I don't think Lloyd hitchhiked carrying two bodies.

But it's possible Lloyd stole some car in Wheaton, MD, drove and buried the bodies someplace he was familiar with as many killers do, the VA mountains, ditched the stolen car after burying the bodies, then started hitch hiking.

I'm not sure he was the one who traveled with the bodies. I think RAW was more familiar with the place on the mountain than LLW.

 

[steveP120]

Attachement #1 (To Search Warrant I presume)
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/SKMBT_60115022314160.pdf

someone else found on other thread, but I can't find original link to news article. There might be a second document??

One-sided as any one side of case is, vague in some spots, but very interesting reading.

 

[gregjrichards]

"While investigators aren't commenting on Lloyd Welch's statement, sources suggest he may have lied to cover up his own actions. He is currently serving a 29-year sentence for an unrelated rape in Delaware. According to the Bedford County search warrant, Welch told a fellow inmate at the Delaware prison that he kidnapped the Lyon sisters and buried them on a family property in Virginia.

Shortly after the warrant was filed in September, investigators carried out an extensive search on Taylor's Mountain. They found "various bones," a "yellow bag," and some kind of metal object.

More evidence was found during an FBI search in January, but those items have not been publicly identified. The evidence is awaiting analysis at a crime lab in Roanoke.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/bed...ails-from-lyon-sisters-investigation/31433586

New article interesting info.

 

[zach1900]

I keep wondering what made the perp. so bold as to commit double kidnapping, unless of course the girls went willingly for whatever reason.

 

[beachlvr0810]

QUESTION for the posters in Thaxton/Taylor Mountain area.....

Is RAW's land vacant?

Is it used for anything or is there an inhabitable structure on the property?

Is there any evidence or recollection of LLW visiting the property between 1975 and his last major arrest in the 90's?

There isn't anything on Richard's land as far as I know. You can't see anything from the road. If you look really closely at one section near the edge of the road, it looks like there possibly could have been a house or something there years and years ago...the reason I say that is because there are some plants there that look like overgrown shrubs and that spot of land is flat as if a house had been there. On one of my TMD maps, it shows our famous moonshiner, my cousin Rufus Overstreet's first house on the mountain was there in that vicinity. According to what I've been told, he had an orchard up on the ridge and that's where he got his fruit from to make his famous "mountain water". That orchard would on Richard Welch's land if the orchard is still there.

 

[zach1900]

There isn't anything on Richard's land as far as I know. You can't see anything from the road. If you look really closely at one section near the edge of the road, it looks like there possibly could have been a house or something there years and years ago...the reason I say that is because there are some plants there that look like overgrown shrubs and that spot of land is flat as if a house had been there. On one of my TMD maps, it shows our famous moonshiner, my cousin Rufus Overstreet's first house on the mountain was there in that vicinity. According to what I've been told, he had an orchard up on the ridge and that's where he got his fruit from to make his famous "mountain water". That orchard would on Richard Welch's land if the orchard is still there.

"mountain water" lol, thanks for the laugh Beachlvr.

 

[steveP120]

There isn't anything on Richard's land as far as I know. You can't see anything from the road.

Maybe it was all the police/FBI cars parked on the land and a few news clips with cars driving in the background, but I got the impression that the land was on a well traveled road?

When you say "you can't see anything from the road" do you mean 1) the property is out of view or 2) no structures can be seen?

If someone dug a hole/grave fairly openly in public, wouldn't one of his relatives or just someone driving by notice? Of course someone could have said they were burying a pet dog or some other excuse, but I think someone would remember.

There were other pictures of dirt roads, maybe fire roads, into the hills in woods near the property (named Devil's den? or something) where making moonshine or burying a body would be easier?

 

[siriunsun]

It looked to me like there was a house nearby.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Maybe it was all the police/FBI cars parked on the land and a few news clips with cars driving in the background, but I got the impression that the land was on a well traveled road?

When you say "you can't see anything from the road" do you mean 1) the property is out of view or 2) no structures can be seen?

If someone dug a hole/grave fairly openly in public, wouldn't one of his relatives or just someone driving by notice? Of course someone could have said they were burying a pet dog or some other excuse, but I think someone would remember.

There were other pictures of dirt roads, maybe fire roads, into the hills in woods near the property (named Devil's den? or something) where making moonshine or burying a body would be easier?

The road where all of the police cars and vehicles were parked at is Taylor Mountain Road. It is a paved road and Richard's land is right beside of Allen and Lizzie's house where the forensic dig was happening. If you were to stand in the middle of that paved road, in the curve and look at Richard's land, you would be looking up at a steep side of the mountain with lots of woods. There is no house or building or structure that you can see while standing in the middle of that road.

 

[RichardLewis]

When you say "you can't see anything from the road" do you mean 1) the property is out of view or 2) no structures can be seen?

If someone dug a hole/grave fairly openly in public, wouldn't one of his relatives or just someone driving by notice? Of course someone could have said they were burying a pet dog or some other excuse, but I think someone would remember.

For perspective, I've attached an overhead pic of the property that was searched.
"A" is the land owned by RAW,
"B" is the house previously owned by Allen & Lizzie Parker,
"C" is the former mobile trailer (since removed) that Allen Jr. lived in for a while.
The house across the street is owned by Allen Parker Sr.'s sister Frances and her husband Paul.
The white + marks denote where the white topped canopy / tents were erected during the "forensic dig" search by LE. The top right white + mark in the group of three + marks on the lower right of the picture is a point of interest. At the beginning of the search all of the 4 white canopy / tents were open view. Later in the search, LE dropped down white side curtains on this one particular canopy / tent so that the view of any persons or photographers from the roadside was obstructed. That could possibly indicate they found something in that area.

Somebody just driving by this property in 1975 likely would not have noticed freshly disturbed soil from the road. However, I would think whomever was living in the Parker house at the time should have noticed disturbed soil so close to their house.

 

[steveP120]

Thanks for posting the photo of the property. So near the road and on a relative's land, strikes me as an unusual (stupid) place to bury a murder victim, but even smart criminals are caught by the (stupid) mistakes everyone makes. The isolated plus sign strikes me as a likely place for someone in the 1700s or 1800s to bury a relative? It does not sound like with the rock-marked, nameless graves, they got an affluent burial. Is the rock-marked graveyard visible in the photo or nearby? Correct me if I am wrong, but from some other map and posts, I got the impression that one could walk hundreds of yards or even miles up the hill as a more unnoticeable place to bury a pet or murder victim. Of course in a murder case, the police should look at all possibilities, even long-shots.

 

[siriunsun]

The person with the shovel had another challenge: the shallow grave(s) needed to be on Welch/Parker property, and not an inch onto any other property. Not that a family member on the mountain would testify, but keeping control of the secondary crime scene would have been important.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Thanks for posting the photo of the property. So near the road and on a relative's land, strikes me as an unusual (stupid) place to bury a murder victim, but even smart criminals are caught by the (stupid) mistakes everyone makes. The isolated plus sign strikes me as a likely place for someone in the 1700s or 1800s to bury a relative? It does not sound like with the rock-marked, nameless graves, they got an affluent burial. Is the rock-marked graveyard visible in the photo or nearby? Correct me if I am wrong, but from some other map and posts, I got the impression that one could walk hundreds of yards or even miles up the hill as a more unnoticeable place to bury a pet or murder victim. Of course in a murder case, the police should look at all possibilities, even long-shots.

steveP...you are right, you CAN walk hundreds of yards or even miles up the hill as a more unnoticeable place to bury a pet or murder victim. The cemetery is not visible from the road...this cemetery is an old family cemetery named Charles Arthur "Pomp" Overstreet Cemetery. To get to the cemetery, you drive up the lower driveway in the map (the road that looks "v" shaped) then veer to the right and cross a small stream and then up the hill to the cemetery. The 30 possible graves in this cemetery are our ancestors and relatives...probably Jones, Overstreet, Newman family members. The maps make the property look flat but it isn't.