Lloyd Welch Pleads Guilty in Deaths of Sheila and Katherine Lyon

[WaynezWorld]

It would be hard not to classify the 1975 dismissal of LLW as a mistake by investigators, but remember that he did fail a polygraph. The police may not have believed he was even at the Mall at the time because of this failure. It sounds like as a criminal LLW was playing with fire to return to the crime scene and try to claim a reward. This is especially weird if the girls were still alive (which by some accounts they may have been) on 4/1/75.

Why was the Long Haired Man sketch not released to the public? Good question. Maybe because the Tape Recorder Man was named by more people at the Mall and he seemed to fit a profile of a sex offender? It would have been possible to have released both the TRM and the LHM sketches. Maybe investigators thought it would confuse people?

I think Montgomery County did a terrific job in the last several years at least, regardless of what happened initially. I would bet they put a lot of effort into Richard Allen Welch- they wiretapped him, they interviewed countless relatives, they presented information to a grand jury- I think they tried very hard.

Bedford County got a guilty plea and put LLW away for life. That they were unable to get a psychotic killer and proven liar to tell the truth and come clean does not reflect poorly on their investigative or judicial abilities. I think any implication that they looked the other way or somehow sympathized with the Welch family is an insult.

There is a possibility that LLW eventually did tell the truth and he had limited involvement in the crimes, but I doubt that could be determined to be factual.

I would like to see the release of investigative information and the case the Commonwealth was going to present. I would like to see information that proves Richard Allen Welch is an innocent man and that he was targeted with LLW Sr. out of spite by LLW Jr. I would like to think no guilty parties are free.

But right now, all we have is the comfort that LLW will never walk the streets again, and the sad 42 year old memory of these poor young girls who had their lives stolen from them.

 

[siriunsun]

LLW is the first person of whom I have ever heard to be turned loose by the police just because he FAILED a polygraph. Seriously.

Maryland has a terrible track record of obtaining justice for crime victims. Someone I know was brutally attacked by a guy with a tire iron, and because the defendant has a mental illness, he was put in a funny farm and later released, despite the fact that he did it. No trial, and at least a dozen restraining orders against him........but the defendant is too "fragile" for justice! Also, remember Stephanie Roper? Her parents were not even allowed to be present for many of the hearings and court proceedings in that case!

It may be an insult to say that the judicial system in Maryland looked the other way, but the judicial system in Maryland insults the victims of crime on a regular basis when they keep handling cases the way they handle them.

 

[Schipperke]

The facts are what they are, and the questions are what they are. If making them statements are to be considered "insults," so be it. The fact remains that there is no proof that these girls ever stepped foot in Bedford. Only the testimony of an acknowledged "liar" puts them there. The case for kidnapping could have accomplished the same final outcome, IMO. Underneath whatever happened in the legal processing of this case, LLW has spent time in Bedford and in a prison where many of the people are his relatives and communications COULD HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE. The only piece of POSSIBLE evidence that the girls were ever IN VIRGINIA disappeared from the "hometown" police custody, and either no one has been charged or information on any action taken over that "breach of custody" has not been released to the public. My purpose is not to "insult" anyone, but to recognize the facts as they are. One man has taken the fall, covering for others that were involved and may still be walking free, IN MY OPINION. I respect the right of others to have different opinions. I am not satisfied that this case has been "solved" at this point; and, while I don't understand how anyone else could be satisfied with the results, I recognize their right to believe whatever they want to. I am hoping that LE is continuing to treat this as an open Cold Case. A key question at this point, for the future: WHERE ARE ALL THE EVIDENCE AND CASE RECORDS BEING HOUSED? WHO IS ASSUMING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR PRESERVATION AND "PRODUCEABILITY SHOULD THEY BE REQUESTED OR SUBPOENAED IN THE FUTURE?

 

[WaynezWorld]

One man has taken the fall, covering for others that were involved and may still be walking free, IN MY OPINION.

LLW is the one who brought up the name of his father and uncle as being involved in the kidnapping, assault and murder. How is this "taking the fall"? Sounds more like taking them down with him, if of course what he said was true.

 

[siriunsun]

If the uncle to whom you refer is RAW, it has to be noted that the last place the girls were seen alive is RAW's home. I agree that LLW's reason for confessing to this in the first place probably has a lot to do with bringing others down, but without discussing a place that could be investigated as a crime scene, there would have been no confession.

 

[WaynezWorld]

Also, remember Stephanie Roper? Her parents were not even allowed to be present for many of the hearings and court proceedings in that case!

I remember the Stephanie Roper case also, I think it was in Charles or St.Marys? I thought the issue there was the victims parents not being allowed to give an impact statement. I think MD changed some legislation over that about 30 years ago.

 

[WaynezWorld]

Look I will say this again if it was not clear.

I think some mistakes were obviously made in 1975 with not releasing the pic of the long haired suspect. Maybe there was a compelling reason they did not or maybe they wrongly did not put much credibility in the witness who saw the girls being leered at by LLW.

I don't think there is any room to criticize current MD or VA investigators or prosecutors for "laziness" or "bias". Here is why-

MD reopened this case after it sat somewhat dormant. They spent THOUSANDS of man hours and did a half dozen trips to DE to interview the killer. This is something that took a lot of patience and time. If the interview had alienated LLW, he could have easily terminated it and demanded legal counsel. They were savvy enough to keep him talking not just for one session, but for several. Good poker play.

VA (Bedford) did not give any breaks to family members as I see it. Had they not been serious, would they have charged the Welch daughter, Gladys Stangee or Leslie Engelking with obstruction or perjury? VA held a grand jury there, and I doubt they would have if they thought the case was shaky or they thought the Welch family was just some good fine country folks and didn't want to hassle their neighbors, like at least one of you other posters implied. Was a tooth lost? By media accounts, yes. But I'm not sure that this was a tooth with a DNA match, or if it was even an elaborate bluff to get LLW riled.

I still have tons of questions and I hope there will be some more material released or even a book by someone close to the case to explain it all better, particularly why no case could be built against Richard Allen Welch.

Also, while I think the general evidence is important and should be part of public record if it doesn't compromise the possibility of a later investigation, I think the privacy of the Lyons family is very important in some regards of the case, particularly any sexual assault.

Let's allow this family to heal and the memory of those poor girls to rest. But at the same time, I think we all agree we's like some more answers.

It's a nice day in Northern Virginia and my lawn and the 0-1 Redskins await. Have a great Sunday.

 

[siriunsun]

I never implied anything negative about the way Virginia administers the law. It was Maryland. The last time I was there was 2010, and it hadn't changed. Domestic violence is still acceptable in Maryland, child abuse is still okey-dokey, and victims still get blamed, regularly, for those crimes. Men still get slapped on the wrist for very serious crimes, and women still get long sentences for self defense. The victim in the tire iron case I mentioned has still not been encouraged to get a gun and defend herself, and she has been told repeatedly that she is safe because of a paper and ink restraining order! Mind you, she lives off the beaten path, and police would take at least 15 minutes to get to her home......but it wasn't a priority before, why would it be one now? I really think that the reason the two credible witnesses in the Lyon sisters' case were not taken seriously is because they were children, and police in Maryland could not be bothered with taking the time to listen to what children had to say. I was glad to see police in Maryland interview LLW, but I really do not think Montgomery County Police have had an epiphany since the 1970's. They are the same old, same old. If they were not, we would know exactly what happened to Sheila and Katherine.

Without the FBI, the case would never have come this close to getting solved.

 

[Schipperke]

Every reader of these posts is entitled to form his/her own opinion. But opinions are formed based on information at hand. My opinions have not changed from my previous post; and it appears to me that when LLW was in Delaware, he was "giving" information (true or not) like the implications of his uncles. That changed once he was moved to "hometown" and to a prison with lots of relatives in the same facility--communication takes different paths from Bedford to Delaware.

My point still remains that the transfer was made without one shred of evidence that any crime was committed in Bedford, and the one piece of DNA evidence claimed to have been found in Bedford disappeared while in the custody of "hometown," without any further explanation or who or why it happened.

In my view, the communication between LLW and LE appears to have changed drastically when the transfer was made. The decision on the transfer was made by whom--Bedford, Montgomery County, Delaware Corrections?

The only person charged and convicted in this crime is LLW. IMO, he "took the fall" so that others might walk or remain unknown even if they are dead--whoever "they" are. Even the dead can tell tales if investigated! Helping to hide information is how martyrs are made! If you are going to have to die in prison, why not have people remember your name. Statement, not a question.

As for a book, unless it contains facts that can be verified, all we have is another opinion. We have plenty of books on many of these missing/murder cases, some with pieces of information which could link them. What we don't have, in most cases, is verification that the links actually exist in the cases or whether are edited in for the reader's mind/eye to catch.

Oh yes, and then we have lots of old cases where evidence is unable to be found or has been destroyed because the case is considered "solved" despite the fact that not all questions have been answered.

I also have grass to cut, but I don't care who wins the football. I am willing to respect your right to have and share your opinion, if you are willing to respect mine. Readers are free to choose to accept either one or sleuth out more to help them decide and perhaps share other opinions with us.

If pointing out facts/errors is considered an insult, so be it. I would like to see answers to the issues instead of enabling sympathetic rhetoric which will allow the same to continue in other cases. We learn from recognizing and correcting mistakes when we can, not by ignoring them as if they never happened.

 

[siriunsun]

Another reason the nature of LLW's information sharing changed after he got to Bedford is probably the fact that he was granted help from the office of the public defender, and since he was facing the death penalty, it was the best of the best advice that pro bono attorneys could offer. Is he really in prison with relatives? I was not aware of that.

 

[WaynezWorld]

Again, there is no evidence that LLW given favorable treatment.

There is no evidence LLW had relatives in the Bedford jail or court system. If there is, please tell.

LLW did not "take the fall" for others. "Taking the fall" would have meant keeping your mouth shut and never sitting down for THIRTEEN interviews.

If you listen to the WTOP Podcast http://wtop.com/local/2017/03/the-investigation-continues-lyon-sisters/ it is clear that prosecutors share different opinions of what may have happened, but all seemed to agree LLW was involved in at least the kidnapping.

I'm going to leave this one alone until more information is released.

 

[Schipperke]

Current WS rules prevent posting information about other people, so I can't give the information about who from the family is in prison. When you look at the inmate role, cross it with family names/news stories/ and ancestry, you get a much clearer picture. Unless they have been removed, you should be able to find some of the names and stories in old WS posts. That is where I found some of them. One link leads to another. At one time we were allowed to post information on family connections as well as comments on other information posted which is no longer available for perusal. In some instances other WS cases had questions on possible connections as well. If you want to spend some time, flip through other cases and see how many similarities you can find either in WS and/or by looking up the old news reports. Time consuming and enlightening analysis (YES), but NOT if you only look at one jurisdiction! Retirement time helps!

There is a lot which had not been released (possibly uncovered in connection with this case but not directly related to it) that possibly never will be released or connected considering the number of LE jurisdictions that would have to cooperate and invest time and effort looking at cases outside their own jurisdiction; or it would need a national task force and MONEY. Does that mean a conspiracy? The way I understand it, conspiracy has a common end goal for everyone. I see this more of organized crime/corruption like the Mafia/gangster era. Everyone has their own interest and business. Sometimes they work together and sometimes they fight each other, but the only common enemy is civil law and order. It lives on beyond the identified participants!

I just hope that there is a revisit at some point in the future--perhaps through another case --unconnected at this time. I have seen news reports that have already stated that there are possible subtle links to other cases. Sometimes multiple links have to make a chain to fully connect.

I stand by my statements, but I do respect your right to your opinion.

 

[WaynezWorld]

Current WS rules prevent posting information about other people, so I can't give the information about who from the family is in prison. When you look at the inmate role, cross it with family names/news stories/ and ancestry, you get a much clearer picture. Unless they have been removed, you should be able to find some of the names and stories in old WS posts. That is where I found some of them. One link leads to another. At one time we were allowed to post information on family connections as well as comments on other information posted which is no longer available for perusal. In some instances other WS cases had questions on possible connections as well. If you want to spend some time, flip through other cases and see how many similarities you can find either in WS and/or by looking up the old news reports. Time consuming and enlightening analysis (YES), but NOT if you only look at one jurisdiction! Retirement time helps!

There is a lot which had not been released (possibly uncovered in connection with this case but not directly related to it) that possibly never will be released or connected considering the number of LE jurisdictions that would have to cooperate and invest time and effort looking at cases outside their own jurisdiction; or it would need a national task force and MONEY. Does that mean a conspiracy? The way I understand it, conspiracy has a common end goal for everyone. I see this more of organized crime/corruption like the Mafia/gangster era. Everyone has their own interest and business. Sometimes they work together and sometimes they fight each other, but the only common enemy is civil law and order. It lives on beyond the identified participants!

I just hope that there is a revisit at some point in the future--perhaps through another case --unconnected at this time. I have seen news reports that have already stated that there are possible subtle links to other cases. Sometimes multiple links have to make a chain to fully connect.

I stand by my statements, but I do respect your right to your opinion.

PM me with that info, would like to see it. Having relatives in the jail with you is different though from having relatives on the police force or working in the court system.

Again, I really don't think Welch or relatives got any "breaks", but if you can convince me otherwise, I am all ears.

 

[zensiert]

PM me with that info, would like to see it. Having relatives in the jail with you is different though from having relatives on the police force or working in the court system.

Again, I really don't think Welch or relatives got any "breaks", but if you can convince me otherwise, I am all ears.

LLW2's cousin, W. T. Justice has been incarcerated down there. Who knows if they are able to communicate with each other or if it matters. Of course LE knows they both are connected as relatives. LE has gone to the prison to interview WTJ about the Lyon sisters case, although WTJ was only about 13 years old at the time of the crimes. They were also interested in talking with him about his father, the late ADJ. LE interviewed several of ADJ's older offspring, and interestingly, his widowed wife; even though she was only 5 years old when the crimes occurred, since she was about 30 years younger than her late husband ADJ.

 

[Rhett]

Why didn't Lloyd Welch have to tell what happened to the Lyon girls in the courtroom? The prosecutor could have made it part of the whole deal.

 

[gregjrichards]

Why didn't Lloyd Welch have to tell what happened to the Lyon girls in the courtroom? The prosecutor could have made it part of the whole deal.

Very good question Rhett I also want an answer to this.

 

[zensiert]

Still so many unanswered questions and loose ends. If you just take a brief look at all the threads about this case and the postings over the past ten years, it is difficult to put it all together into something that makes sense. You could go on with questions.


1. What the heck did TRM have to do with anything? Did he really exist and was he at the mall talking to the girls that day?

2. How did a WS former member know about the long haired man sketch long before it was ever known by the general public and before LLW2 was named as a POI. They said "...This information is in the police records. Along with other information that was not released that should have been investigated such as the man that was stalking the girls at the mall - and it wasn't the tape record man who was interviewed by police and was not considered a suspect by the police only the media..."

3. Whose car did LLW2 get the girls into and what was all the talk of a missing station wagon about?

4. Did IBM employee M. Dietz really see some child bound in the back of a car near Manassas VA? Was it a hoax?

5. Was the ransom attempt a fraud?

6. Did Raymond Mileski really know anything about the case as he claimed in prison?

7. Was Helen Craver just an innocent victim of LLW2, or a witness to this crime, and she did nothing to save the girls?

8. Who else, living or dead, did LLW2 implicate?

9. Why did LE execute search warrants for L. W. Kraisel's home, email, and social media accounts?

10. What was LLW2 doing in St. Cloud, MN the same labor day weekend in 1974 that the Reker Sisters were abducted and killed?

11. What other cold cases could be connected to the W clan?Montgomery County Assistant Police ChiefRuss Hamill said “There’speople out here in these communities that know what happened back then and theycarry it with them to this day,” he said. “Two little girls were the mainvictims but there are many others ….”“I believe we’ll get to the bottom of where many crimes occurred by theend of the investigation.”

 

[Richard]

Still so many unanswered questions and loose ends. If you just take a brief look at all the threads about this case and the postings over the past ten years, it is difficult to put it all together into something that makes sense. You could go on with questions.


1. What the heck did TRM have to do with anything? Did he really exist and was he at the mall talking to the girls that day?

2. How did a WS former member know about the long haired man sketch long before it was ever known by the general public and before LLW2 was named as a POI. They said "...This information is in the police records. Along with other information that was not released that should have been investigated such as the man that was stalking the girls at the mall - and it wasn't the tape record man who was interviewed by police and was not considered a suspect by the police only the media..."

3. Whose car did LLW2 get the girls into and what was all the talk of a missing station wagon about?

4. Did IBM employee M. Dietz really see some child bound in the back of a car near Manassas VA? Was it a hoax?

5. Was the ransom attempt a fraud?

6. Did Raymond Mileski really know anything about the case as he claimed in prison?

7. Was Helen Craver just an innocent victim of LLW2, or a witness to this crime, and she did nothing to save the girls?

8. Who else, living or dead, did LLW2 implicate?

9. Why did LE execute search warrants for L. W. Kraisel's home, email, and social media accounts?

10. What was LLW2 doing in St. Cloud, MN the same labor day weekend in 1974 that the Reker Sisters were abducted and killed?

11. What other cold cases could be connected to the W clan?Montgomery County Assistant Police ChiefRuss Hamill said “There’speople out here in these communities that know what happened back then and theycarry it with them to this day,” he said. “Two little girls were the mainvictims but there are many others ….”“I believe we’ll get to the bottom of where many crimes occurred by theend of the investigation.”

All excellent questions which beg answers.

There are many potentially connected cases which have been discussed on these threads. Of them, the one which I think could be most closely linked to Lloyd Welch (and his accomplices) is that of Eileen Kelly, age 18, who went missing between DC and Hyattsville, MD in December of 1974 and who turned up dead in Washington DC, just west of the DC/MD line that same month. She had been held alive for over a week before being murdered.

 

[siriunsun]

All excellent questions which beg answers.

There are many potentially connected cases which have been discussed on these threads. Of them, the one which I think could be most closely linked to Lloyd Welch (and his accomplices) is that of Eileen Kelly, age 18, who went missing between DC and Hyattsville, MD in December of 1974 and who turned up dead in Washington DC, just west of the DC/MD line that same month. She had been held alive for over a week before being murdered.

Hmmm......hopefully, anyone who actually knows something about that case will come forward with information.

 

[JayMac]

remember Stephanie Roper? Her parents were not even allowed to be present for many of the hearings and court proceedings in that case!

You have to understand the reason for any such exclusion before you condemn it. My memory is off on why after so long but it may have been because they were going to be witnesses at trial. Adherence to procedural rules protects the integrity of the court proceedings.