Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

[bessie]

I realize that we've learned that now, but at least one teacher and perhaps some students thought that Kyron had a doctor's appointment that day. I was basing my comment on what was known on June 4. If it was believed that Kyron was going to the doctor with his step-mom, there would be no reason to conceal his departure from the school. jmo

No, not at the time. But Terri knew that questions would be asked later. Suppose she did just walk out the door with Kyron and was seen by someone who thought they were going to the doctor. No big deal. When Kyron later came up missing, however, and that same person said, "Oh, yes, I saw them leave together", Terri would have been arrested immediately and this case would be solved. That is what Terri was avoiding.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

How about this scenario? Little K's been fussy all morning, and Terri's tired of carrying her. She asks Kyron to hop into the stroller and hold Sissy on his lap so Mom can get her off her hip. Kyron wants to please step-mom and obliges. TMH pushes stroller with both kids. Seen from behind or at a distance, no Kyron walking with Terri, and stroller makes perfect sense because she has little K with her. jmo

 

[T-Rex]

LE has said there's no evidence Kyron is dead, and I would hope that included using a cadaver dog on the truck when they had it.

 

[gliving]

i got one of these for 10bucks at a yard sale one time to have when my little granddaughter came. it was the best stroller i ever had. it was tall enough that i didnt have to bend over to push it. it would go over curbs with no problem. the uneven ground at the park was no problem. someone might possibly pull it off using one of these, but i dont think terri did. jmo, imo, mho and all that jazz

ETA i didnt know it was for jogging. i guess i missed that opportunity

N25, does the stroller fit through a standard doorway or do you have to take it outside to open it up?

TIA

 

[bessie]

How about this scenario? Little K's been fussy all morning, and Terri's tired of carrying her. She asks Kyron to hop into the stroller and hold Sissy on his lap so Mom can get her off her hip. Kyron wants to please step-mom and obliges. TMH pushes stroller with both kids. Seen from behind or at a distance, no Kyron walking with Terri, and stroller makes perfect sense because she has little K with her. jmo

I think that's a very plausible scenario if Kyron would oblige.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Okay I've searched around seeing if this was even possible. Kyron was 3ft 8" and weighed 50lbs.

The above stroller could easily accomaodate Kyron's size and weight. The seat lays back making even more room for lenth[his small frame could easily be put in a semi-fetal position](thats hard to even think of)
But the weight limit on this specific stroller is 55-60lbs. So with a similar stroller and a blanket or medium duffle bag[Kyron in the duffle bag and then the duffle bag put into the stroller]as Ive seen lots of parents use the stroller to haul their bags around and carry the toddler. There are even larger, sturdier stroller with weight limits up to 120lbs. But wanted to show that it was possible with just an average sized and priced stroller..

All in all IT IS POSSIBLE. Tho, I personally do not believe this is how Kyron was removed.[I believe they hid within plain sight].. But it is possible.

 

[2goldfish]

this debating on this thread just cements for me everything that drives me insane about this case.

I have no stong feeling about anyone, anywhere, anyways. I know statistically TH is very likely to have had something to do with Kyron's disappearance.....but I dont get any kind of certainty....and anyone who's followed a number of cases learns that you are rarely surprised in the end as to what's happened or who dun it.

no prior abuse (that we know of) no body (I am certian it would have been leaked) no contact with DY or KH (that we know if and I bet they'd be screaming it to the hills) no one saw a thing, heard a thing, found a thing (that we know of)

all we have is....TH is flighty and Kyron went in for a science fair and no one's seen him since (that we know of!)

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The above stroller could easily accomaodate Kyron's size and weight. The seat lays back making even more room for lenth[his small frame could easily be put in a semi-fetal position](thats hard to even think of) But the weight limit on this specific stroller is 55-60lbs. So with a similar stroller and a blanket or medium duffle bag[Kyron in the duffle bag and then the duffle bag put into the stroller]as Ive seen lots of parents use the stroller to haul their bags around and carry the toddler. There are even larger, sturdier stroller with weight limits up to 120lbs. But wanted to show that it was possible with just an average sized and priced stroller.

Respectfully edited. I gave this thread some thought while my DH and I ran a couple of errands today. Seeing the photo of that stroller is conducive to my suggestion in above post that Kyron could have sat in the stroller with Baby K on his lap. Terri likely had a pricy, deluxe version of a similar stroller jmo

 

[Sidley]

A sturdy jogging stroller with 3 wheels has a maximum weight of 70 lbs. I don't know how to include a link, but the Bob Revolution is an example of one Kyron would easily fit in. I imagine he and Baby K could sit in there together, perhaps if TMH suggested it as a "game" of some sort. The stroller has a very big sunshade that would not be necessary inside a building or outside on a cloudy day, but it would definitely make it hard for someone passing more than a few feet away to see inside the stroller. This scenario really only seems possible if TMH timed it perfectly so she was walking to the car after most parents had already left and the students were heading to their classrooms to be broken down into small groups. It doesn't seem possible if she was walking out of the building when a lot of other students and parents were walking into the building and right past her.

 

[SmoothOperator]

A sturdy jogging stroller with 3 wheels has a maximum weight of 70 lbs. I don't know how to include a link, but the Bob Revolution is an example of one Kyron would easily fit in. I imagine he and Baby K could sit in there together, perhaps if TMH suggested it as a "game" of some sort. The stroller has a very big sunshade that would not be necessary inside a building or outside on a cloudy day, but it would definitely make it hard for someone passing more than a few feet away to see inside the stroller. This scenario really only seems possible if TMH timed it perfectly so she was walking to the car after most parents had already left and the students were heading to their classrooms to be broken down into small groups. It doesn't seem possible if she was walking out of the building when a lot of other students and parents were walking into the building and right past her.

Is this what you're talking about?

If so ITA. weight limit of 70lbs. They both easily could have fit ... easy-peasy

 

[Sidley]

Is this what you're talking about?

Yes, thanks. The only thing not clear in this picture is that the sun canopy can be pulled down even lower.

 

[BeanE]

I think in your proposed scenario, BeanE, the biggest logistical issue wouldn't be how to get a child's body into a stroller while wrangling with a toddler. IMO, it would be how to very quickly render the child unconscious or dead and how to do so without leaving any evidence, without anyone walking in during the process and without anyone noticing the unusual pile of "blankets" (or other cover) in the stroller.

I think it's much more likely Kyron went willingly with someone he knew.

It does look like there are other hurdles for this scenario that insurmountable, Sherbie.

 

[STEADFAST]

No, not at the time. But Terri knew that questions would be asked later. Suppose she did just walk out the door with Kyron and was seen by someone who thought they were going to the doctor. No big deal. When Kyron later came up missing, however, and that same person said, "Oh, yes, I saw them leave together", Terri would have been arrested immediately and this case would be solved. That is what Terri was avoiding.

If the person saw them inside the school together . . . well, people did see them inside the school together. A lookout could have let Terri know when the coast was clear to actually walk out the door. As long as no one saw them in the act of walking away from the school, Terri was in the clear. It would have been a bigger risk for her to have been discovered leaving the school with Kyron in a stroller than just walking.

By the way, we really don't know that no one saw them leaving the school. We don't know where they were the last time either of them was seen at the school, we just know that they were together when Kyron was last seen and together the last time Terri was seen at the school.

I don't agree that Terri would be arrested by now if she were seen leaving the building with Kyron, because there is no hurry to arrest her, and they want to build their case and hope to find Kyron. Once they arrest her, they have to try her in a timely manner.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Yes, thanks. The only thing not clear in this picture is that the sun canopy can be pulled down even lower.

Well, sidley in that case I would say that it is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE.. And for it to not even be seen as suspicious, awkward, etc... WOW. I had never even thought such, but now after searching, seeing, comparing, and thinking logically could this even work and actually be a POSSIBILITY... i SAY YES, IT DEFINITELY COULD BE.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Re: Jogging stroller. I just read Sidley's post aloud to DH, and we both said the neighbors' name who used one of these at the exact same time Perfect for outdoors but kind of clunky to wheel around inside a school, methinks.

 

[BeanE]

It could be that nobody got him out of the school without being seen with him. Once he was out, lots of cover around there.

I wish sooooooo much we could all go to the school and try a re-enactment, trying out different scenarios. We could have people watching from different vantage points. I've even wondered if Terri did just that - spent time looking out different windows in the weeks before to see where people were more obscured as they walked to their cars, etc.

If it was a predator, I have no problem with scenarios in which he could have gotten Kyron out unnoticed. And I keep coming back to that too. Did she just use a disguise as a man? To look like a predator? But then I get hung up on wth she would have done with the baby.

Anyway, my heartfelt thanks to everyone who is helping to analyze this with me. I really do appreciate it. We've got such great thinkers here at WS. Maybe we should open a thread to revisit a more general 'How to get Terri and Kyron out of the building unseen' thread. It would be a good project for the coming week.

 

[STEADFAST]

Having read this thread, I'm less skeptical of the stroller idea. Looks like it's not out of the realm of possibility!:HBwhiteflag:

 

[SmoothOperator]

If Kyron was with his step-mother and possibly headed to a doctor's appointment, why the need for a surrepticious exit from the building?

I agree BDE. I believe that they hid within plain sight. Meaning just as u suggested they simply walked out. Absolutely nothing suspicious at all about that. Especially because ppl would not automatically assume they were leaving the campus, but rather just going to the car to retrieve any number of things like his lunch, his backpack, a jacket, etc.. As Kyron may very well have been under the same assumption[that he was just going to the vehicle to retrieve something his "mom" had told him he left behind in the truck]..

She could have said to him that since they parked a good distance from the school that she would go to the truck and pull it around to a certain door and for Kyron to come outthat door to retrieve whatever the "supposed" item that was left behind..

This is the scenario in my theory that I used but insteda of item left behind I rather thought it was the dr. appt used for him to come out to the truck...

 

[STEADFAST]

I wish sooooooo much we could all go to the school and try a re-enactment, trying out different scenarios. We could have people watching from different vantage points. I've even wondered if Terri did just that - spent time looking out different windows in the weeks before to see where people were more obscured as they walked to their cars, etc.

If it was a predator, I have no problem with scenarios in which he could have gotten Kyron out unnoticed. And I keep coming back to that too. Did she just use a disguise as a man? To look like a predator? But then I get hung up on wth she would have done with the baby.

Anyway, my heartfelt thanks to everyone who is helping to analyze this with me. I really do appreciate it. We've got such great thinkers here at WS. Maybe we should open a thread to revisit a more general 'How to get Terri and Kyron out of the building unseen' thread. It would be a good project for the coming week.

I think we already have that thread. I don't understand the argument that it would be easier for a predator to get Kyron out of the building without being see than for Terri to. Maybe we could have a thread called, "Who would have less trouble getting Kyron out of the building without being seen, Terri or a predator?"

 

[BeanE]

If Kyron was with his step-mother and possibly headed to a doctor's appointment, why the need for a surrepticious exit from the building?

Because if anyone sees her with Kyron, she's immediately fingered as the perp and arrested that day and it's game over.