Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

[Morag]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5314657&postcount=189"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle?[/ame]

Here's my post in the how to get out without being seen thread.

 

[STEADFAST]

Because if anyone sees her with Kyron, she's immediately fingered as the perp and arrested that day and it's game over.

People did see her with Kyron.

 

[BeanE]

Okay I've searched around seeing if this was even possible. Kyron was 3ft 8" and weighed 50lbs.

The above stroller could easily accomaodate Kyron's size and weight. The seat lays back making even more room for lenth[his small frame could easily be put in a semi-fetal position](thats hard to even think of)
But the weight limit on this specific stroller is 55-60lbs. So with a similar stroller and a blanket or medium duffle bag[Kyron in the duffle bag and then the duffle bag put into the stroller]as Ive seen lots of parents use the stroller to haul their bags around and carry the toddler. There are even larger, sturdier stroller with weight limits up to 120lbs. But wanted to show that it was possible with just an average sized and priced stroller..

All in all IT IS POSSIBLE. Tho, I personally do not believe this is how Kyron was removed.[I believe they hid within plain sight].. But it is possible.

A stroller like this looks to me like it would work. Is this a commonly used type stroller? I have no idea. I just don't pay attention to what the stroller trends are.

 

[BeanE]

I think we already have that thread. I don't understand the argument that it would be easier for a predator to get Kyron out of the building without being see than for Terri to. Maybe we could have a thread called, "Who would have less trouble getting Kyron out of the building without being seen, Terri or a predator?"

I vote for a thread like that! That would be a great topic, Steadfast. :blowkiss:

 

[STEADFAST]

Of course, if Terri could get him out in a stroller, any adult could get him out in a stroller.

 

[BeanE]

People did see her with Kyron.

I thought the post I was responding to was referring to her and Kyron leaving the building, not inside the building. I'm very much aware that people saw them inside the building

 

[BeanE]

Of course, if Terri could get him out in a stroller, any adult could get him out in a stroller.

Yeah, but in this thread, I'm trying to convict Terri. :angel:

 

[Jo in Calif]

Any one else itchin for a MSM report?

 

[eyes4crime]

This thread is to analyze the logistics of getting a lifeless (unconscious or deceased) child's body (Kyron) into a stroller, while wrangling a toddler.

Assumption is that this is done in a restroom or basement, with easy egress from the school.

Consideration must be given to the risk of someone into the restroom, basement, or room in which this is done, so it must be done quickly.

Another assumption is that the stroller is big/sturdy enough. (We can try to verify type/size of baby K's stroller(s) later.)

Another assumption is that Terri is strong enough due to body building experience to get the child's body into the stroller, and to get the stroller and child's body into the truck.

The big question is - what do you do with that toddler while you put the child's body into the stroller?

Assumption is that there is nobody else watching the baby, and you have to do this yourself.

Thanks!
BeanE

Wow! Can't imagine anyone pulling this off.

If there is a 'mensa' for psychopaths, I would like to nominate Terri as president. She would have to be - beyond brilliant to have planned so perfectly! moo mho

 

[Curious Me]

LE has said there's no evidence Kyron is dead, and I would hope that included using a cadaver dog on the truck when they had it.

BBM True, LE said that. Kyron wasn't dead in that truck from what I can gather.

Please allow me to get out some of the crazy thoughts going on in my head from this case. I may not make sense, but what does.

I just can't see a plan that didn't leave her blameless. I do not think she would plan to kill him at the school. She wouldn't want to do anything that conclusive at that point.

She may have drug him and left him unconscious someplace in the school, maybe in a container, but I believe someone else could've carried out the plan from there.

IMO, she didn't leave the school with Kyron. It would make more sense that someone else really was involved. She left the school, leaving Kyron someplace agreed upon, and someone else within the school actually got Kyron out in some kind of everyday container, or she arranged for him to meet her at the truck.

The stroller idea is probably possible, but if this was planned then I don't see how you would think you'd go unnoticed. She had to look totally blameless for this to work, and wouldn't take the chance, IMO. She seems to need others to help her do away with her problems as in the MFH plot, so I'm starting to lean more towards another person(s) involved.

BeanE, thanks for starting this discussion. I see by the very question that if no one saw Kyron leave the school then how did he get out of the school. Very good question.

 

[Emma Peel]

Wow! Can't imagine anyone pulling this off.

If there is a 'mensa' for psychopaths, I would like to nominate Terri as president. She would have to be - beyond brilliant to have planned so perfectly! moo mho

ooooo, wow! Now you've got me contemplating a thread about "Mensa" card-carrying psychopaths. In the Parking Lot, of course. :woohoo:

 

[STEADFAST]

Yeah, but in this thread, I'm trying to convict Terri. :angel:

Oh, that will be taken care of by the D.A. eventually! (Stroller or no stroller)

 

[STEADFAST]

I thought the post I was responding to was referring to her and Kyron leaving the building, not inside the building. I'm very much aware that people saw them inside the building

Did LE say "inside the building" or "at the school"? (I'm supposed to be transcribing that presser and keep putting it off.)

 

[Jade2010]

Maybe with some magic fairy dust...

 

[STEADFAST]

I vote for a thread like that! That would be a great topic, Steadfast. :blowkiss:

Done. Now go over and explain the easier-by-a-predator thing. You may or may not use a stroller in your scenario.

 

[BeanE]

Did LE say "inside the building" or "at the school"? (I'm supposed to be transcribing that presser and keep putting it off.)

LE said Kyron was last seen inside the school. I assumed school meant building, and that if they meant inside the school grounds, they'd have said grounds. It's in the quotes thread, and in the presser where they said Terri was last known person, Gates *might* have made a school reference, but I can't recall atm for sure.

 

[kathead]

hmmmm blanket on June 4. That would look odd, wouldn't it.

Not in Portland this summer. I am in the desert in WA and this year has been cold and we've had more rain than normal, so I imagine Portland has been fairly chilly and wet as well. The weather can change very quickly in coastal towns. I grew up in one in CA.

 

[bessie]

I agree BDE. I believe that they hid within plain sight. Meaning just as u suggested they simply walked out. Absolutely nothing suspicious at all about that. Especially because ppl would not automatically assume they were leaving the campus, but rather just going to the car to retrieve any number of things like his lunch, his backpack, a jacket, etc.. As Kyron may very well have been under the same assumption[that he was just going to the vehicle to retrieve something his "mom" had told him he left behind in the truck]..

She could have said to him that since they parked a good distance from the school that she would go to the truck and pull it around to a certain door and for Kyron to come outthat door to retrieve whatever the "supposed" item that was left behind..

This is the scenario in my theory that I used but insteda of item left behind I rather thought it was the dr. appt used for him to come out to the truck...

Nothing suspicious at the time, but how would Terri explain that after the fact if an eyewitness saw them?

If she was pretty sure the coast was clear, she might've pulled up to a side door. Walking out in plain sight through the parking lot would've been way too risky. If that were the case, she would've covered for it in her original interview with LE, and as far as we know, she did not. We do know it wasn't mentioned in her FB explanation.

 

[bessie]

If the person saw them inside the school together . . . well, people did see them inside the school together. A lookout could have let Terri know when the coast was clear to actually walk out the door. As long as no one saw them in the act of walking away from the school, Terri was in the clear. It would have been a bigger risk for her to have been discovered leaving the school with Kyron in a stroller than just walking.

By the way, we really don't know that no one saw them leaving the school. We don't know where they were the last time either of them was seen at the school, we just know that they were together when Kyron was last seen and together the last time Terri was seen at the school.

I don't agree that Terri would be arrested by now if she were seen leaving the building with Kyron, because there is no hurry to arrest her, and they want to build their case and hope to find Kyron. Once they arrest her, they have to try her in a timely manner.

If a reliable eyewitness stated that he saw Kyron walking in the parking lot toward a car, or getting in a car, with a stranger, and Kyron was never seen again after that time, would anyone doubt who was responsible for Kyron's fate? And if LE were able to subsequently identify the stranger would he not be arrested? It's no different for Terri. Last seen getting into a car with Terri would be half the case.

It's true that once charges are made the clock starts ticking, but trials are routinely delayed. Further, the state becomes privy to information through the discovery process that's otherwise unattainable. And, once arrested, the suspect is under more pressure to talk. In lieu of solid evidence, double jeopardy can be avoided by charging with a lesser crime while continuing to build the case toward the greater.

The state is seeking an indictment through the GJ process which tells me they have to piece together a case against her because they lack one piece of good, solid evidence that ties her to the crime. If they had an eyewitness who saw them leave together, there would be no need for a GJ. At any rate, their intention is to charge her.

No eyewitness and no alibi for returning to the car tells me that Kyron did not leave in plain sight. It's worth looking at possibilities like the stroller scenario. But if she took him out in the stroller, he would've been concealed.

 

[Curious Me]

LE has said there's no evidence Kyron is dead, and I would hope that included using a cadaver dog on the truck when they had it.

This is a very important idea. Kyron was not dead if and when he was brought back into that truck, maybe unconscious but not dead, IMO.