Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

[sherbetjello]

If I saw a 7-year old, in a stroller, on the day of June the 4th... I would remember that.
Just sayin..

 

[SmoothOperator]

In response to a blanket looking odd on June 4th. If Im not mistaken it was 53* and drizzling rain part of the day... So I don't think it would be out of place at all. Ppl were wearing jackets on this day so especially in a stroller I would think any type of blanket would be completely UN-suspicious...

 

[pufnstuf]

Why on earth would she kill Kyron in the school? Why would she take such a chance of being caught leaving the school with a dead body?

And what do you suppose she did with the baby while she was killing Kyron? "Logistics" would say that more than likely, if she had a stroller at the school with her, the baby would have been with her. Did she hand the baby off to someone, then go kill Kyron, put his body in the stroller, then take the chance of going back to whomever was watching the baby to get her back? And then put the baby in the stroller with a dead body? Or on her hip as she pushed a stroller down a flight of stairs?

Just seems like a way far-out hypothesis that ignores the more logical explanations--that she took Kyron from the school and killed him and his body hasn't been found yet because she had assistance from Dede in disposing of him. We don't have the evidence that LE have, but I really think that it's just not even remotely likely that he was killed in the school.

 

[cypress]

Do we know for sure if Terri even used a stroller that day?

 

[TxLady2]

I know it's unlikely, but I like to explore all reasonable possibilties. Nothing rules this out. I'd appreciate your help, Steadfast. I want to know *how* unlikely it is. Is it just too hard to do? Too hard to do in a reasonable timeframe? etc.

Take the baby into the school in the stroller, push her around while looking at the projects. At some point take Kyron and baby K to a remote restroom, room, basement, whatever.

With baby K still in the stroller, incapacitate or kill Kyron quickly. Take baby K out of the stroller.

Do what with baby K while...

putting Kyron into the stroller, and covering him with a blanket perhaps. Strapped/tied/duct taped into the stroller under that blanket. Could be done fairly quickly.

My problem is what to do with baby K while getting Kyron into the stroller. A baby that age toddling around is, to me, too apt to get into the filthy stalls, or even to open the door, or get into *something*. That's what hangs me up about this, and makes it highly unlikely.

You couldn't carry, eg, a car seat around the fair with you, in addition to the baby and a stroller. That would be way too silly.

How else could you restrain a toddler while you put the other child into a stroller? You moms of young children - is there a restraint of any sort you can stick in your pocket? A harness you could clip a leash-like end to a door handle or something?

Wow. That sure would make a toddler... fussy...

With all due respect... why would she choose to kill or drug Kyron into unconsciousness while still at the school? That makes absolutely no sense to me. This probably was not a spur of the moment deed... it may have been planned, IF she is the one who did this. There would have been no reason to take such a high risk where she would be more apt to be discovered. She may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she's not stupid!!

Most predators who snatch kids take them away from the place they grabbed them. It may be just down the block or behind the location in some woods... but they don't kill them right then and there.

Moms who murder their kids usually do it at home. If she took the trouble to take him to the school... I really don't believe she would kill him there. Too risky. Not even a drugged Kyron... how would she explain that to someone who might meet her in the hall or on the parking lot? Surely some other parents were leaving shortly after she did.

Sorry, BeanE... I don't mean to hurt your feelings at all. Just giving my honest opinion.

 

[Cremcraw]

Responding to cypress:

No, this is just wild speculation and is not based on any news reporting - hence the lack of links.

 

[Amster]

I think she sent him out to the truck to get something....whomever was in the truck kept him there...if anyone saw him, it just would fit with the abduction theory.

 

[Bodhi]

A stroller like this looks to me like it would work. Is this a commonly used type stroller? I have no idea. I just don't pay attention to what the stroller trends are.

In my experience, it is. But ones with larger wheels--good in snow, uneven terrain, and school hallways. They are much more nimble than umbrella strollers, which are harder to push, shorter, and can't carry very much. My kids haven't been in strollers in a long time but I volunteer regularly at an elementary school. I see those type of strollers a lot. Especially at events, where the parent has more children than just the one in the stroller. And the baskets are loaded with lots of stuff--snowsuits, backpacks, toys--for the whole family.

 

[Bodhi]

It's also a possibility that Terri put on a different jacket or raincoat than the one she wore in to school, so she would not be recognized easily from behind as she pushed the stroller away from the building. She could have had the hood on or a hat if it was drizzling.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Are there not stairs in the school? If TH was touring the exhibits how would she manage the stairs and/or classrooms with the toddler either in or out of a stroller? IMO, the stroller was left in the truck, if she even had it with her that day.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

ooooo, wow! Now you've got me contemplating a thread about "Mensa" card-carrying psychopaths. In the Parking Lot, of course.

I'd prefer to be in the company of artists, musicians, scientists, writers, and other creative types who make the world a better place. I freaked out when I learned that David Westerfield, who murdered Danielle Van Dam, was a Mensa member

 

[pufnstuf]

Since I don't believe that I am allowed to post a photo of the baby in her stroller, because it came from FB, I'll post a stroller that's almost identical except for color to the one that Terri was using as recently as May 2010. Plus, Terri's doesn't have as much storage room underneath the seat.

It's a lightweight umbrella stroller.

 

[Marigold]

I have just a few points before I go back into lurkdom:

My sister was a bodybuilder (and sometimes a powerlifter) for a long time, up until my son was about in 4th grade and my daughter was in 7th. She's not quite five feet tall, but she could pick up my son (while he was in a laying position on the ground) and lift him over her head without blinking. During the same time period, she could also lift both kids at once quite easily, one in each arm. My sister probably could have put my son into a stroller and then carried him and the stroller aloft for an extended period of time. I have no doubt that my sister could have easily have pushed a filled stroller with one hand while carrying a little toddler in her other arm.

I am really confused as to why there is a thread speculating on this, when it hasn't been reported that TH used a stroller. Am I wrong in thinking that it's just as relevant as speculating as to whether or not TH removed Kyron with a hot air balloon parked on the roof of the school? After all, it would be really easy to lure a little boy with the promise of a balloon ride, and no one at the school would think of looking on the roof for a balloon, would they?

I know that my "balloon theory" is ridiculous, but I did so to make a point. How many more threads will there be where people are guessing about something that's not even proven to have occurred? And even more importantly, are these kinds of threads helpful to Kyron in the long run? And if so, how?

 

[BeanE]

With all due respect... why would she choose to kill or drug Kyron into unconsciousness while still at the school? That makes absolutely no sense to me. This probably was not a spur of the moment deed... it may have been planned, IF she is the one who did this. There would have been no reason to take such a high risk where she would be more apt to be discovered. She may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she's not stupid!!

Most predators who snatch kids take them away from the place they grabbed them. It may be just down the block or behind the location in some woods... but they don't kill them right then and there.

Moms who murder their kids usually do it at home. If she took the trouble to take him to the school... I really don't believe she would kill him there. Too risky. Not even a drugged Kyron... how would she explain that to someone who might meet her in the hall or on the parking lot? Surely some other parents were leaving shortly after she did.

Sorry, BeanE... I don't mean to hurt your feelings at all. Just giving my honest opinion.

awwww txlady, You're sweet. It doesn't hurt my feelings. I put this out there to get feedback, because feedback is what I wanted. If we want to figure out what happened to Kyron, we've got to put out our thoughts, and hash out the possibilities and likelihoods and probabilities, no matter what those are.

Hugs,
BeanE

 

[cecybeans]

I think her best shot of getting Kyron out of school would have been to tell him she had to go get some medicine for K. and she wanted him to watch her in the car on the way over (although Andrea from the gym describes Kiara as being with Terri when she saw her at the store). She was allegedly at the first Fred Meyers by 9:12 and the second one between 9:30 and 10:00 am. She may have promised him he would be back at school by the talent show. It would be easiest logistically to then go straight home. The fact that Dede was already at the farm working by 9:00 but they now say they last saw her at 10:30 (and then noticed she was gone after 11:00) could mean that Terri called Dede for help from home and went to pick her up. They were both off the grid at about the same time (or at least Terri's story of driving K. around for an hour and a half cannot be verified). Terri checks in at the gym at 11:40 (although we have no confirmation she was there the entire hour). We don't know who else was at the gym. But that looks to me like Terri wanted part of that time documented.

If Dede had planned on being involved ahead of time, I seriously doubt she would have disappeared from the farm suddenly and missed that lunch. She would have come up with a story or something. This sounds to me like someone who got an emergency call from a friend. Which would not rule out premeditation on Terri's part. She could have easily staged an "accident" and knew she could count on her friend to drop everything and help her out.

Anyone who parked at the back of the lots at the storeslike Terri did may not have wanted someone in the truck to be seen with her. Which could have been Kyron, since Dede was ostensibly at the farm. Although is does not rule out anyone else either.

 

[Calliope]

Why on earth would she kill Kyron in the school? Why would she take such a chance of being caught leaving the school with a dead body?

sbm

OR with a live Kyron?

 

[pufnstuf]

sbm

OR with a live Kyron?

IF she had been caught leaving with a living Kyron, so what? She was his caretaker. There's no "caught" to it. She was responsible for him, so had she been seen leaving with him, it wouldn't have raised any alarm. Had she known that she'd been seen leaving with him, she might have dropped the plan that day and done it some other time. Perhaps we'd been hearing that a little boy went missing while playing in the woods off of Sheltered Nook this past summer instead of hearing of a little boy missing from a school.

But leaving a busy school with a dead body is entirely a different matter. Being caught with a dead body brings the police immediately to your presence.

And eta: We really don't know if she was seen leaving with Kyron or not. We don't know what LE know.

 

[Day Dreamer]

Here is a theory that has been bothering me since the beginning. I'm not really sure if I can imagine Terri violently murdering Kyron. Not that it couldn't happen ... I just have a difficult time imagining it. I have often wondered if she would have used some kind of drug to overdose Kyron on to have less of a fight and less of a mess to clean up and conceal?

Someone earlier also had a theory that perhaps she had intended to drug Kaine in hopes he would have an accident on the way to work; and, that Kyron could have accidentally gotten what was meant for Kaine.

Could it be that, if she did drug Kyron, that he began to feel ill while touring the projects? Perhaps she told him to go on to the truck while she told the teacher he was not feeling well; or, perhaps told Kyron to wait by a door while she drove the truck closer to pick him up?

If the theory of using a stroller to get Kyron out of the school (or any other container for that matter) is true it would have been much easier w/ a drugged child.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Nope...just can't make it work...

 

[txsvicki]

I'd be thinking more along the lines of a large plastic tote tub that could have been for the intended use of bringing Kyron's science project home . It would be easy to step into an empty room and stuff a child into one of those and easy to carry it out to the truck. It would be even easier just to walk out with the child earlier than the reported time of 8:45. A person who knew the school well and knew which rooms were in use and where all the people were at the time could do it. Parking on the end of the school with the least likely viewable exit, a person could leave the baby in the stroller up on the porch and carry out a tote then come back for the baby or just simply walk out with both kids.

I know that the family thinks it was all planned out and that Kyron's alive, but just in theory: if the baby was sick and fussy, Terri had been emotional but not "overly violent" the past months, and if Kyron smarted off that morning it's possible that a person could snap and knock him out fatally or something right there at the school or have taken him away as punishment until the ten a.m. roll call. I don't think that happened though.