Lyons' talk of 'Mitigation'

[HRCODEPINK]

One more thing I thought that I would mention about all of this need for privacy for mitigation nonsense. Not only does it bother me that KC always seems to think that she is above the law and should have special privlages is the fact that she already has special circumstances that will help her come sentencing phase. For those who do not know how these trials work, DP trials are a little different from regular criminal cases. It is kind of like 2 trials. After they determine that she is as guilty as I am nosy they will move on to the second phase of the trial for the penalty/sentencing. In this part of the case there will be witnesses to KC's character, past criminal record/history because in order to get death (at least here in VA) there has to be a finding of Future Dangerousness, there will be all kinds of discussions about her reactions to her daughters death, if she was the least bit remorseful and then there are supposed to be statements from the VICTIMS FAMILY MEMBERS.

These statements are supposed to reflect how the family feels about the murderer, how the loss of their loved one has effected their life, etc. They are supposed to talk about the kind of person the victim was and be there to make sure there is Justice for Caylee. They are also allowed to recommend what they think should be done if they choose to. For example, since I am against the death penalty, my family has been instructed that if I were to ever die a violent death, they are to speak during the penalty phase of my beliefs that the DP is wrong, and I have properly coached them to understand that not only do I think the DP is wrong, but that I think that life w/o parole is worse than death so that it has the bigger impact and hopefully my wishes would be carried out.

WHO IS GOING TO SPEAK FOR CAYLEE???!?!?!?!? Seems that her family only sees her mother as the victim here. :furious:

She is already going to get out of that mark against her. Why does she need any more special treatment?

 

[The World According]

Gee can't Ms AL meet with the Anthony's at JB's office or the Ritz? Defense is just filing anything to either get the case dismissed and/or taint the jury pool etc. And another thing that bothers me is how they keep filing motions about information being released to the public when everyone on the Defense Team knows darn well that they are in Florida and that in Florida there is a Law called the Sunshine Law.

Help me remember guys, but indeed didn't the DEFENSE request some of those jailhouse visits be released themselves (because , supposedly they were going to prove misconduct on th part of the police)? I remember thinking that was hysterical at the time. All these motions they are filing are just silly and I do not think they think they have any chance of prevailing on them.

 

[ZsaZsa]

My take on one of the reasons for this motion is that AL is perhaps preparing for an "accidental" theory.....and KC wants to confront her mom and tell her how she was sooo scared of CA's reaction that she freaked and went off into lala land....I think they don't want that on tape. I'm not saying how the "accident" happened....such as KC couldn't handle having Caylee 24/7 when she left out of that house in a huff on the 15th with Caylee crying and KC putting duct tape over her mouth to shut her up....she didn't MEAN to kill Caylee, just shut her up.....
that's my armchair opinion anyways............

Exactly. I think she drowned her and then tried to call them to claim an accident - then she thought it through and realized Cindy would never buy that and so she took off, having burned all her bridges. From then on her behavior was of someone who knew she had a finite time to live it up.

 

[milliac]

Regardless it is preferential treatment and should be laughed out of court. There is this thing we have here in the US called the Constitution that makes us all equal under the law. To allow her unrecorded access to her family would set precedent and open the flood gates for every drug dealer and murderer in the country to site the case and ask that their conversations not be taped as well.

snipped with respect

ITA...can you imagine all the precedents that would be set if the judge granted these motions. Not just this one, but the others as well, such as dismissing the case. I would assume this would be foremost in the judges mind, as he makes his decision

 

[milliac]

Not sure about myfoxorlando, but I always watch the jailhouse videos on wftv. Gosh, I've practically got the A's drivel memorized from watching 'em so much.

As for the original topic.. I think these requests are ridiculous. Ms Lyons did warn us that she had a slew of motions up her sleeve, at least.

Because of the heightened stress of a death penalty case, it is cruel and unusual to effectively deny miss anthony the comfort of her family

Heightened stress? Well then don't murder children. What's cruel and unusual duct taping a 3 year old's mouth and nasal cavities. Uh, and the only person denying miss anthony of her family is HER.

These motions will be denied, thankfully. As much as the A's get catered to and accommodated by certain powers and principalities in FL, I'm glad that the jail hasn't and will not give the A's any special treatment.

If they want to see their daughter, then go see her. If you can't speak to her because you've all got something to hide then too-freaking-bad. Boo-hoo.... Nobody cares :behindbar

Exactly! If they have nothing to hide, then why worry about being recorded? Oye!!!! Why even freaken call so much attention to it? There is no reason they can't make their visits positive and express their thoughts and feelings to her, without discussing the details. I have never heard of an inmate asking for this kind of special treatement.

The gut feeling that keeps coming to me is that AL is trying to get KC to open up, but she is running into a stone wall. I think she wants to bring the parents in to try to get her to open up, so she can defend her against DP to the best of her ability.

 

[Spangle]

Not sure about myfoxorlando, but I always watch the jailhouse videos on wftv. Gosh, I've practically got the A's drivel memorized from watching 'em so much.

As for the original topic.. I think these requests are ridiculous. Ms Lyons did warn us that she had a slew of motions up her sleeve, at least.

Because of the heightened stress of a death penalty case, it is cruel and unusual to effectively deny miss anthony the comfort of her family

Heightened stress? Well then don't murder children. What's cruel and unusual duct taping a 3 year old's mouth and nasal cavities. Uh, and the only person denying miss anthony of her family is HER.

These motions will be denied, thankfully. As much as the A's get catered to and accommodated by certain powers and principalities in FL, I'm glad that the jail hasn't and will not give the A's any special treatment.

If they want to see their daughter, then go see her. If you can't speak to her because you've all got something to hide then too-freaking-bad. Boo-hoo.... Nobody cares :behindbar

So true, no one is keeping them from visiting. It's a CHOICE that is being made. That makes the whole motion a waste of time.

The Judge should ask AL if she is asking him to ORDER the A's to go see their daughter and ORDERING KC to visit with her family. Is THAT what she is asking??

LOL! Nope, can't force folks. She is just trying to blow smoke over the fact that this family has chosen not to visit each other. And that looks bad for her client.

 

[Spangle]

Help me remember guys, but indeed didn't the DEFENSE request some of those jailhouse visits be released themselves (because , supposedly they were going to prove misconduct on th part of the police)? I remember thinking that was hysterical at the time. All these motions they are filing are just silly and I do not think they think they have any chance of prevailing on them.

Wow. Just Wow!

 

[mysteriew]

I don't think the 'mitigation' is directly related to the court case. But I think it is related to the A's and to KC. It is really obvious that there are issues between KC and CA. And I think that AL has talked with KC and told her that she needed her family with her, and that the jury needed to see her family there. And that the jury shouldn't see her and the A's being anything other than loving. I think the mitigation she is talking about is to mitigate the issues between CA and KC so that when the trial starts they can be all kisses and sweetness. And they don't want the public seeing the issues, discusions, arguments and so forth that might lead to mitigation between the two.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

snipped with respect

ITA...can you imagine all the precedents that would be set if the judge granted these motions. Not just this one, but the others as well, such as dismissing the case. I would assume this would be foremost in the judges mind, as he makes his decision

Yep! You can be sure they do! No judge wants to be the one that allowed something to slip through that is later found to be unconstitutional and they are all aware of how their actions have the power to change history. At least any good judge is mindful of this. If I were a judge I would be very concerned about how my rulings could allow unintended consequences and would be very thoughtful in all of my decisions.

 

[Spangle]

Exactly! If they have nothing to hide, then why worry about being recorded? Oye!!!! Why even freaken call so much attention to it? There is no reason they can't make their visits positive and express their thoughts and feelings to her, without discussing the details. I have never heard of an inmate asking for this kind of special treatement.

The gut feeling that keeps coming to me is that AL is trying to get KC to open up, but she is running into a stone wall. I think she wants to bring the parents in to try to get her to open up, so she can defend her against DP to the best of her ability.

If that is the goal, then it would seem like the motions would backfire. Since they requerst them to be kept fromthe public, unless anything is said that is evidence. I would think that in order to accomplish their task, certain topics are going to come up.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I don't think the 'mitigation' is directly related to the court case. But I think it is related to the A's and to KC. It is really obvious that there are issues between KC and CA. And I think that AL has talked with KC and told her that she needed her family with her, and that the jury needed to see her family there. And that the jury shouldn't see her and the A's being anything other than loving. I think the mitigation she is talking about is to mitigate the issues between CA and KC so that when the trial starts they can be all kisses and sweetness. And they don't want the public seeing the issues, discusions, arguments and so forth that might lead to mitigation between the two.

But KC and family had all that time she was out on bail to kiss and make up.....it didn't happen. It won't happen.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I don't think the 'mitigation' is directly related to the court case. But I think it is related to the A's and to KC. It is really obvious that there are issues between KC and CA. And I think that AL has talked with KC and told her that she needed her family with her, and that the jury needed to see her family there. And that the jury shouldn't see her and the A's being anything other than loving. I think the mitigation she is talking about is to mitigate the issues between CA and KC so that when the trial starts they can be all kisses and sweetness.

Yes! Kisses and sweetness is good! No defense attorney wants their client to be anything but loved by all that are anywhere near her, especially her own family! Remember how we all felt when we heard that Misty C's dad and then mom too came out and said they doubted her story? Didn't that look way worse than just friends and family? They are there to coach them on how to act, (as should JB, but clearly he is not at all equipped) they are to coach the family on how to act, image plays a large part. But that is only half of their job, if that. Probably even closer to 25%.

When I worked with Marie I learned a lot from her. Part of what we did whenever we worked a case was to go get the trial transcripts and the discovery. We investigated every bit of it. We also got permission from the client to obtain all of their legal, health and school records. We found where they didn't do as well in school and if there were behavioral problems in school. We spoke with counselors, we spoke with mental health workers, pediatricians, teachers, physicians for every type of illness or diagnosis and how it could effect the person mental health. We talked with friends, neighbors and co-workers. We get old addresses going back to their birth and hire private investigators if we didn't have time to do it ourselves to track down friends they had in kindergarten.

We never lead the person we were interviewing, but would ask the same basic list of questions on what type of childhood they had and what type of parents the person's parents were, their financial situation, what type of person they were before, it goes on and on. She will investigate every bit of KC's background, as far back as she can go and then she will base her reasoning on why she is too pitiful to get death. How her parents had failed her. The check fraud will work in her favor here, as will all the stories of all the money that she stole from SP and CA. That will be important because it will demonstrate how no matter how much trouble she got into, CA covered for her and "fixed it" leaving her to believe that there are no consequences for your actions. If I were AL I would broadcast that she is a sociopath and I would make sure that everyone knew how bad she has it without the ability to feel like everyone else. She will use anything and everything she can to make sure that she paints the picture of a poor abused child who just never grew up and wasn't allowed to by her parents. George WILL get thrown under the bus here for some sort of abuse, beit physical or emotional. If KC was already telling people LA sexually abused her, believe we will hear all the details during this phase. It will truly be all about KC, since there is no one to speak for Caylee.

 

[hannahsnana]

There is ample "evidence" of the "strained" relationship between KC and Cindy.
KC told LE that she was totally afraid of her mother! Knew her mother would never forgive her.
KC's friends have told LE how bitter KC was about Cindy taking over the mother role with Caylee.
KC has said she was alienated from her father and had only just gotten close to him again when "this" happened. There are witnesses to George SCREAMING at KC and cursing at her.
KC has told friends that her brother made inappropriate sexual advances towards her.
KC has told friends that George had an affair and had been kicked out of the home, and Cindy's mother also sent emails to her own sister about all of this family discord.

And yet, Cindy tries to pretend that Casey would never kill her own daughter. Casey will never be forgiven by her mother, because her mother will never acknowledge what Casey has done. What a web they have woven. All the Anthonys are their own and each others' worst enemies.

 

[mysteriew]

But KC and family had all that time she was out on bail to kiss and make up.....it didn't happen. It won't happen.

But AL wasn't involved then. I really think that AL is the one pushing this. And she isn't pushing it because she wants CA to visit KC, or that she even cares what the two's relationship is like. But she wants to have at least an appearance that she and CA get along. AL talks about family involvement in a DP case and how important it is. This is evidence that she is trying to put her own words into action.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

But AL wasn't involved then. I really think that AL is the one pushing this. And she isn't pushing it because she wants CA to visit KC, or that she even cares what the two's relationship is like. But she wants to have at least an appearance that she and CA get along. AL talks about family involvement in a DP case and how important it is. This is evidence that she is trying to put her own words into action.

BBM

You are exactly correct. She could care less and when it is all over she will not lose one wink of sleep over CA and KC's relationship. She will lose sleep if KC gets death and will throw a party if she "wins" and ends up with ANYTHING less.

 

[snow_walker]

I am not all that opposed to the A's visiting in private with KC. So what? It won't change what we already know happened..this case doesn't hinge on whether little Caylee drowned or was suffocated, or whether she died on the 15th of June or the 16th..

no story the combined efforts of all the A's and all their lawyers can ever come up with, can rewrite the story of a little girl with 3 pieces of duct tape across her face, her body thrown away in a muddy swamp, and left there for the vermin and the insects..nothing they can do can change any part of that reality.

AND on the plus side, perhaps KC is beginning to grasp some small part of the real situation she is in. Perhaps if she talked privately with her family, she would finally decide it was in her own best interests to simply admit what happened..admit guilt and ask for mercy..first from her family, then from the law.. it might shorten the trial considerably, perhaps take fewer witnesses..and that would be a good thing for a lot of innocent people who are going to have walk into that courtroom and testify.

More especially though perhaps it is the only way we will ever know about little Caylee's final moments. In some sense, I feel I owe it to her to hear what happened, to finally understand. It is only through KC that little Caylee will ever be given a final chance to speak to us, and anything that would give that child her one chance to tell her story, is worth all the A's sillyness and KC's kool aid we would no doubt have to listen to along the way.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I am not all that opposed to the A's visiting in private with KC. So what? It won't change what we already know happened..this case doesn't hinge on whether little Caylee drowned or was suffocated, or whether she died on the 15th of June or the 16th..

no story the combined efforts of all the A's and all their lawyers can ever come up with, can rewrite the story of a little girl with 3 pieces of duct tape across her face, her body thrown away in a muddy swamp, and left there for the vermin and the insects..nothing they can do can change any part of that reality.

AND on the plus side, perhaps KC is beginning to grasp some small part of the real situation she is in. Perhaps if she talked privately with her family, she would finally decide it was in her own best interests to simply admit what happened..admit guilt and ask for mercy..first from her family, then from the law.. it might shorten the trial considerably, perhaps take fewer witnesses..and that would be a good thing for a lot of innocent people who are going to have walk into that courtroom and testify.

More especially though perhaps it is the only way we will ever know about little Caylee's final moments. In some sense, I feel I owe it to her to hear what happened, to finally understand. It is only through KC that little Caylee will ever be given a final chance to speak to us, and anything that would give that child her one chance to tell her story, is worth all the A's sillyness and KC's kool aid we would no doubt have to listen to along the way.

I want you to understand that I say this with the utmost respect and I commend you on your ability, of which I am totally lacking, but I think you give them too much credit. I would not risk LE's ability to record these conversations on every prisoner for these people in the least. If they were even remotely close to normal it would be one thing but these sneaky people do not care about Caylee. "Caylee who?" is the phrase that comes to mind in this case. They don't even remember Caylee. If anything, I believe that they blame Caylee for KC's unfortunate current living arrangement. They all make me want to hurl. Al cares not, as I said in my last post, for KC and CA's relationship. She only cares about appearance. And Al has to be able to sit there with all of them to get their stories straight and my guess is to let CA know how she is at fault for this as well for being such an enabler, and the rest of the family for how they contributed to the person she became. This isn't about KC getting right with everyone. It's about how they all need to act and what everyone needs to say.

 

[Jolynna]

But KC and family had all that time she was out on bail to kiss and make up.....it didn't happen. It won't happen.

If you are right, that is bad for AL and worse for KC.

Should KC be convicted, AL has to convince a jury that KC's family would suffer if KC were removed from this world. That would be easier to do if KC didn't snub her parents during the trial. What has gone on during the hearings--Cindy looking pleadingly at KC & and KC glassily looking the other way--makes KC look cold, like somebody capable of killing a child.

AL doesn't want possible jurors to ever hear and see the F-bombs and tantrums that might come from KC while the family is making-up.

imo

 

[mysteriew]

I am not all that opposed to the A's visiting in private with KC. So what? It won't change what we already know happened..this case doesn't hinge on whether little Caylee drowned or was suffocated, or whether she died on the 15th of June or the 16th..

no story the combined efforts of all the A's and all their lawyers can ever come up with, can rewrite the story of a little girl with 3 pieces of duct tape across her face, her body thrown away in a muddy swamp, and left there for the vermin and the insects..nothing they can do can change any part of that reality.

AND on the plus side, perhaps KC is beginning to grasp some small part of the real situation she is in. Perhaps if she talked privately with her family, she would finally decide it was in her own best interests to simply admit what happened..admit guilt and ask for mercy..first from her family, then from the law.. it might shorten the trial considerably, perhaps take fewer witnesses..and that would be a good thing for a lot of innocent people who are going to have walk into that courtroom and testify.

More especially though perhaps it is the only way we will ever know about little Caylee's final moments. In some sense, I feel I owe it to her to hear what happened, to finally understand. It is only through KC that little Caylee will ever be given a final chance to speak to us, and anything that would give that child her one chance to tell her story, is worth all the A's sillyness and KC's kool aid we would no doubt have to listen to along the way.

Well you also have to look at the big picture. Maybe the defense is just looking at family issues and how it will look to jurors. And maybe there wouldn't be any problems. But let's look at the big picture here and maybe some history. This is the same group (family and attorneys) where the prisoner showed up with some contraband jewelry on her first trip to court. And where the family has admitted that they were making an end run around jail rules by sending their letters to the prisoner through the attorney. A big no no in the jail. Of course that would never have come out, except the family began to wonder if their letters were actually getting to the prisoner. Then there have been other issues that I can't remember.

Do we really want to trust that these "mitigation" meetings are only for the stated reasons? And that mitigation is the only thing that will be happening at these meetings? Who knows what other discussions there will be or what will be passed at those meetings? Who knows if the attorneys will stick to the rules, when evidently they haven't so far?

For all I know AL may be totally sincere about her reasoning. But I don't know if I trust that that is the only thing that will happen. Wasn't there a request for a "face to face" "contact" visit with the family before? Why is "contact" so important to this family, at this particular time?

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Just an FYI about Mitigation. I really think we should be discussing the things that we have heard about KC and her life and figuring out what will be used during the sentencing phase. Although I worry about doing defense work for them, believe that this will all be covered by AL and not a bit of her life will not be gone over with a fine toothed comb. I am really interested to see who AL hires as a Mitigation Specialist or if she plans on doing it all on her own:

"Even cases that you would think would get the death penalty, a good mitigation case can be made," Dieter said. "Guilt is not the question. It's whether they should get the death penalty, and juries need to hear the defendant's life story told by someone who's really plumbed it thoroughly."

"The ultimate goal from our perspective is - not to excuse the horrible crime that the client may have committed in any way, to just, to put it in context and to humanize the person and show the history that culminated in that particular event," said Selvog, who serves as clinical director at the Washington, D.C.-based National Center on Institutions and Alternatives.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4183/is_20061201/ai_n16891696/

Role of Mitigation Specialist:

Individually and independently is responsible for conducting full background investigation of clients charged with capital offenses. Investigations to include full family history, school history, medical and social history, and psychological or pathological history of client. Interview family members and others with relevant information and obtains life records of client and family as necessary. Determine need for professional assessment and review by professional witnesses and other experts, and coordinates evaluation process.

At the conclusion of the background investigation, record review, and analysis of professional reports; independently prepares a report concerning the full life history of the client for use during the mitigation phase of a Capital trial. In addition, may be required to testify in a professional capacity at a mitigation hearing, and if necessary, submit reports that may be entered into the record as exhibits. Travel extensively both inside and outside of the U.S. in areas that may present a risk to the individual.

http://www.ocpd.state.ct.us/Postions/Descriptions/Mitigation Specialist.htm