GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #1

[JoeFromLB]

The public will hear almost nothing about this case until it comes to trial, and that could be years from now. I wonder if we'll ever find out the motive here.

 

[PrairieWind]

We will see if the order sealing the case gets challenged by the media. Its not uncommon for the media to prevail in getting access to some sealed documents because Judges overstep their authority to seal records (often with good intentions). It will largely depend on what the law is in Massachusetts regarding these things.

 

[Trident]

This article seems to be the most legit in regards to facts that i have found so far, with a lot of comments if you scroll to the bottom as well.

Reading the comments section there are a lot of incredibly ignorant people on the internet, unbelievable....


http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justice/massachusetts-danvers-school-killing/

Truth to one may not be truth to another.

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

Sorry, just have to go on a little rant here.

I know that legally news sources have to use "allegedly" and "suspect" until the person is proved guilty. That's fine and I don't have a problem with it.

I also know that the boilerplate initial plea is almost always "not guilty" and I don't have a problem with that either.

However, it's obvious in this case who the perpetrator was.

So I seriously hope the parents encourage--no, insist--that the teen admit to what he did and take responsibility for his actions.

I know nothing about the parents, but it seems to me that taking responsibility for one's actions is a lesson often lost on today's kids thanks to their upbringing.

If they choose instead to fight this out in court hoping he'll get off on some sort of technicality, maybe due to his age, I will be livid.

IMO that would simply be cruelly and unnecessarily prolonging the agony of the victim's family and everyone else who is mourning her loss when there's no question of his guilt, at least as far as I can see.

/vent

I truly understand your point. However even though he's "guilty" in our judicial land a person is not guilty unless they have been convicted in a court of law. Otherwise its all allegedly until that happens. I understand how frustrating this can be for everyone. However that's how our court system works.

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

I have been a reader of this forum for at least 5 years. It wasn't until recently that I decided to join. I know how most people feel about these people that commit these crimes.
:truce:
One thing that is overlooked here is the way that the justice system works. It's not whether you did the crime you have been accused of, it is whether it has been or can be proven in a court of law or the perpetrator has admitted his guilt.
Most people believe that defense attorneys are scum like the clients that they believe. Most people are not aware that defence attorneys have a job to do. Defend their client. Do everything in their power to the benefit of their client. This include their client talking to LE, to admitting anything, submitting to any tests and such. Yes, it would be nice for these perpetrators to just say guilty and they are sentence and it's done. That is until you are the person that has been accused of a crime that you did not do. Our justice system is based on blind justice and the probability/evidence of the crime committed.
thanks,

 

[lucky181]

He'd been doodling and listening to music during his Algebra I class in the school's final period, classmate Cambria Cloutier told CNN. Creating such drawings was unusual for Chism, who Cloutier recalled rarely participated in class discussions but was "a really good student."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justice/massachusetts-danvers-school-killing/


Did he observe that other students were required to stay after school for not doing the algebra work during class and therefore, deliberately doodled knowing CR would ask him to stay? If this was premeditated, did he know her pattern and know that she would not immediately leave school? Or did he feel he needed to ensure that she would stay after the bell? Or that he would need an "excuse" for not attending soccer practice?

This looks to be premeditated, but, IMO, there seems to have been quite a thought process to ensure that he would have the opportunity to commit the crime. Of course, we don't know if he'd been asked to stay after school for algebra help previously but it sounds like he was a good student.

 

[DeeMarie]

EXCLUSIVE: Student,14, PLANNED to 'slash teacher to death' but refuses to say why, police reveal:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-meal-Wendys-dumping-body.html#ixzz2ileQIAuN

 

[LambChop]

For the purposes of posting information we do not have to refer to the defendant as the alleged killer. It's a forum and we are not in a court of law so changing the title is not necessary.

 

[KindraLore]

IF it was premeditated, maybe he was doodling so that he would get caught and have to stay after. I recall reading that other students said it was unlike him to do that, he was normally a good student. Maybe he knew her well enough to know what was tolerated in her class and he did what was not acceptable so that he could have the time to carry out his plan.

I would still like to know WHY though. It seems weird as the article DeeMarie posted stated that usually if someone confesses, they do not hold out the motive. At that point they want to be justified, whether their thought process of it is warped or not.

 

[matou]

So he admits that he planned to kill her???

 

[FragileSugar]

EXCLUSIVE: Student,14, PLANNED to 'slash teacher to death' but refuses to say why, police reveal:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-meal-Wendys-dumping-body.html#ixzz2ileQIAuN

Philip Chism, the 14-year-old accused of killing beloved school teacher Colleen Ritzer, 'completely planned' the brutal attack, according to police sources.

The teenage soccer star even brought a spare set of clothes into class so he could change and dump his bloodstained outfit to avoid detection when he made his trip to a local cinema and Wendy's restaurant.

He was caught on security camera at the Hollywood Hits movie theatre soon after 4pm on Tuesday wearing a clean sweat suit. Police found his discarded clothes and the box cutter knife used in the attack hidden in woods near Danver High School and now have them as evidence.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-meal-Wendys-dumping-body.html#ixzz2ileQIAuN

Philip Chism, the 14-year-old accused of killing beloved school teacher Colleen Ritzer, 'completely planned' the brutal attack, according to police sources.
The teenage soccer star even brought a spare set of clothes into class so he could change and dump his bloodstained outfit to avoid detection when he made his trip to a local cinema and Wendy's restaurant.

First the Daily Mail says the attack was completely planned, then further down in the article it is quoted as "we think" this was completely planned.

"One thing we do think is that this was completely planned. He brought a change of clothes with him into school and changed after the attack. He dumped the body, his original clothes and the box cutter in the woods.

Also, wouldn't he have had a change of clothes for soccer?

'She was a very friendly, approachable teacher and it is possible he completely misread her affable nature and made some kind of advance towards her,’ the source said.
'Whether that happened on Tuesday night, or some time before is unclear. Being the professional she was, she would obviously have told him how inappropriate that was. That may have angered him enough to act as some kind of motivation for the attack.

JMO, but if they are speculating on the theory that he possibly made an "advance" towards her prior to that day, I don't think she would have put herself in a situation alone with him. I'm just not getting the rejection theory as a possible motive. If it's theorized that he made an advance towards her that day and they theorize it was premeditated, then he would have had to have planned to kill her if she rejected him. This just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[mikeysmommom]

IMO He had it all planed out ahead of time.Schools are very busy even after the last class.Students and teachers are still in the building and outside in most schools, for him to not be seen during the time he was committing these acts and taking the recycling can outside he did not come into contact with anyone.Seems very planned out to me. I just hope he is never out of a prison cell , IMO he is a very dangerous predator at 14 , he will never be anyone we want walking among us or our children IMO.

 

[Honey_West]

Reporter for FOX Boston:

Jessica Reyes ‏@jessicamreyes 46m
"Paperwork states Chism's father had been physically, emotionally abusive and abused alcohol"

Via Twitter

There has also been a Twitter memorial page set up: 'In memory of Colleen Ritzer' @colleenritzer

 

[mikeysmommom]

As far as the father being abusive back in 2001 divorce papers, many times things are said just to benefit the party seeking the divorce.They did not get the divorce back then so I doubt it was true.

 

[MissJ]

Well I'm in the east too. Our school system starts school early August because of extreme weather and snow. JMO.

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...nvers_slay_suspect_s_uncle_he_s_a_perfect_kid

Chism Blaine said he’s been trying to get in touch with his brother this week who he believes lives in Florida. He said when he saw his nephew last, Philip’s mother and father were present but he was unsure if they were a couple because “I don’t ask their personal business.”

 

[21merc7]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-meal-Wendys-dumping-body.html#ixzz2ileQIAuN



First the Daily Mail says the attack was completely planned, then further down in the article it is quoted as "we think" this was completely planned.



Also, wouldn't he have had a change of clothes for soccer?



JMO, but if they are speculating on the theory that he possibly made an "advance" towards her prior to that day, I don't think she would have put herself in a situation alone with him. I'm just not getting the rejection theory as a possible motive. If it's theorized that he made an advance towards her that day and they theorize it was premeditated, then he would have had to have planned to kill her if she rejected him. This just doesn't make any sense to me.

Change of clothes means nothing since he was in soccer, I agree.

But, for the last paragraph, she may have wanted to talk to him to "gently let him know she is not interested." That may have set him off, if there is any truth to the rumor.

I'm the older lady "nearly 50" that still tries to be friends but gently let someone down. I know I should not, but I cannot help it. My bleeding heart, and inability to see that may make it worse.

He went into a rage, planned or not. Let's see how it pans out. Teens feeding MSM is not necessarily what PC will say, just their own thoughts about it.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Change of clothes means nothing since he was in soccer, I agree.

But, for the last paragraph, she may have wanted to talk to him to "gently let him know she is not interested." That may have set him off, if there is any truth to the rumor.

I'm the older lady "nearly 50" that still tries to be friends but gently let someone down. I know I should not, but I cannot help it. My bleeding heart, and inability to see that may make it worse.

He went into a rage, planned or not. Let's see how it pans out. Teens feeding MSM is not necessarily what PC will say, just their own thoughts about it.

Sounds like we are the same age. lol

I was thinking more on the lines of her being a teacher and wondering if they have a way of handling such situations, or have been trained on how to handle a teacher "crush" since it's so common. I was hoping another teacher might chime in and educate me.

I also wonder what he was drawing ?? Maybe she noticed a change in his behavior and grades recently and she decided to talk to him about it. Maybe she had contacted his mother with concerns and he wasn't happy about that??

I don't know, I just found the article a bit over the top at this point.

 

[ami]

I truly understand your point. However even though he's "guilty" in our judicial land a person is not guilty unless they have been convicted in a court of law. Otherwise its all allegedly until that happens. I understand how frustrating this can be for everyone. However that's how our court system works.

This isn't the court system, it's a discussion forum. And someone is in reality guilty of a crime when they commit the crime, whether they're later found legally guilty or not.

Sounds like we are the same age. lol

I was thinking more on the lines of her being a teacher and wondering if they have a way of handling such situations, or have been trained on how to handle a teacher "crush" since it's so common. I was hoping another teacher might chime in and educate me.

I also wonder what he was drawing ?? Maybe she noticed a change in his behavior and grades recently and she decided to talk to him about it. Maybe she had contacted his mother with concerns and he wasn't happy about that??

I don't know, I just found the article a bit over the top at this point.

The drawing and music thing made me think today. I have students who for whatever reason find it important to show me that they're not paying attention. They might sit in the front row and then deliberately look away from me, cross their arms, drop their pen dramatically to show they aren't concerned with taking notes, etc. It's usually a guy, and usually someone who is angry at me for a grade, or otherwise resentful about something. They're basically trying to send the clear message: I'm not listening, and I want you to notice this. (Other kids who are not listening might try very hard to appear to be listening while secretly texting or something - different story).

So the thought of PC doodling and listening to music during the lecture before an exam seems like someone who wanted the teacher to notice how little he cared about the class. Maybe someone who wanted to be asked to stay after class. Or maybe someone distancing himself from her before he killed her. Or both.

She was pretty and young and friendly, so I can see how a crush would develop. But the timeline seems odd for him to have made a move that afternoon, been rejected, then retaliated violently. I'm more inclined to believe that he brought the box cutter to school, as a few sources have reported.

Why a box cutter and not a knife? Was he really planning to kill her, or to threaten her? A box cutter doesn't "feel" like the first weapon of choice for a premeditated murder... especially when most homes have knives in the kitchen. But then why would he think he could threaten a teacher and get away with it... so that doesn't make sense. I really don't understand this.