GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

[jacct]

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Regan asks about sexualized posture of Ritzer's body, stick violation. Dudley says it's consistent with psychotic episode.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Malingering is when you pretend to suffer from a psychiatric disorder that you don't have Dudley says

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Regan: Did you consider if he was malingering? (exaggerating symptoms)Dr. Dudley Yes.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley: Considered malingering. Someone with mental illness can still fake or exaggerate symptoms.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
In his opinion, #PhilipChism isn't faking symptoms of psychosis, Dudley says. He asked questions neutrally so as not to lead Chism behavior.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 55s56 seconds ago
Says even if #PhilipChism exaggerated symptoms or manipulated staff he still had actual symptoms of mental illness.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
#PhilipChism still staring straight ahead, not making any eye contact with Dudley

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley: I explored things he described that happened in October 2013, the time of the murder.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Reganid you consider if #PhilipChism suffered personality disorder? Dr. Dudley: yes.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
"You look at these pieces of information to see if there's a hole that makes sense." -Dudley

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley Typically young boy can't be diagnosed with personality disorder, because personality not fixed

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
A teen #PhilipChism age can't be diagnosed with a personality disorder he said

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
He looked at into from Tenn to see how #PhilipChism behaved before psychotic episode Dudley said

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley: "there was no evidence of a real personality disorder" based on his eval

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley says he did not see "budding personality disorder."

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley: I learned of trauma related symptoms for schizophrenia, but not trauma itself.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Anxiety, things he won't talk about, ability to look in as an outsider, nightmares and dreams were symptoms

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley: #PhilipChism has trauma-related psychosis. Couldn't ID what the trauma was but saw a lot of "trauma-related symptoms."

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley: In a way, avoidance is also symptomatic of a trauma issue

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Regan: How did Chism age, 14, keep him from conforming behavior to law? Dr. Dudley: He couldnt appreciate illness.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 42s42 seconds ago
Direct of Dr. Dudley is done.

 

[trixandhoney]

Is Chism definitely not going to testify? I assume not but hadn't heard...

 

[jacct]

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 43s44 seconds ago

MacDougall points out Dudley isn't board certified in adolescent or child psychology.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
McD you testified in high profile media cases, including Cheshire Ct murder for defenseDr. Dudley says yes

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
MacD: He knew what he was doing was wrong?Dr. Dudley I can't say he did not.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Asst district atty Kate MacDougall points out Dudley didn't conclude #PhilipChism didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
ADA asking about #PhilipChism mental state at time of the murder

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: What evidence do you have of the disorganized thinking, separate/apart from anything #PhilipChism told you was going on in his head?

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
MacD: You ever been to DHS? Walked the route he walked? Dr. Dudley No

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
MacD: Which of #PhilipChism movement in school are disorganized? Dr. Dudley: His continued presence

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
MacD: No one caught him w/ Ritzer body, and he found container to move her...Dr. Dudley: yes

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 4m4 minutes ago
Dudley thinks he should have fled, not walked around the school covered in blood.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
ADA: "What if his ultimate goal was to pose Ms. Ritzer in the woods and violate her with the branch?" Dudley: that's correct

 

[jacct]

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago
MacDougall trying to show Dudley didn't have enough info, evidence to conclude #PhilipChism had disorganized thinking after Ritzer death

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
MacD:You are aware he used her cc at movie theatre and wendys. and stole scuba knife.Dr. Dudley: yes.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 6m6 minutes ago
Dudley said #PhilipChism did shoplift that day. He's aware of it but it didn't effect his diagnosis

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 6m6 minutes ago
ADA points out that #PhilipChism got out of the school w/o anyone spotting him or Ritzer's body.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 6m6 minutes ago
ADA: He found the one container in Danvers High School big enough to hide her.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 6m6 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley didn't watch video of #PhilipChism interacting with friend immediately after murder at DHS

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 5m5 minutes ago
ADA is questioning Dudley about #PhilipChism seeing a friend and saying he lost something. She asks if that's consistent

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 5m5 minutes ago
With disorganized thought. Dudley is standing by his mental illness diagnosis

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 5m5 minutes ago
ADA is questioning Dudley about the interactions #PhilipChism has after the killing, with two friends. He didn't list them in his report.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 5m5 minutes ago Salem, MA
MacDougall trying to show #PhilipChism showed organized thinking in some instances Dudley didn't take into account in his evaluation.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
Dudley says he did not interview a boy that invited #PhilipChism to youth group

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
#PhilipChism told Dudley he didn't feel connected. With overall deterioration though he would feel connected to anybody

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
ADA: You say #PhilipChism didn't have support, yet he was invited to youth group/men's bible study by Kevin Hebert. Isn't that significant?

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
Dudley: Yes, but #PhilipChism didn't feel a connection to them. That's sig. ADA: But your only source on that is Chism.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Several students told him he was disconnecting

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA suggests that Dudley only reviewed interviews with students who saw a change in #PhilipChism, not the rest of the soccer team or others.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
ADA: What about relationship with Ramci Escorcia, who #PhilipChism played soccer one-on-one together?

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
ADA points out Dudley was only given, and he only reviewed, interviews with people who described a change in #PhilipChism behavior.

 

[jacct]

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley says he learned #PhilipChism was a really good soccer player. Agrees that never changes

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
MacD: #PhilipChism was getting credit for goal from his coach, and that's why he didn't celebrate. Dr. Dudley yes.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
ADA now asking Dudley about a paper he co-wrote

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 57s57 seconds ago Salem, MA
ADA mentions Dudley co-wrote article that tells attorneys how to use a mental health professional in a criminal case.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 39s39 seconds ago
Dudley answering questions about this paper, which involves testing and evaluations of juvenile offender

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 31s31 seconds ago
MacD: In this case you didn't consider any psychological testDr. Dudley: No I didn't order any

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 55s56 seconds ago
Sidebar now, Regan objecting to ADA line of questioning

 

[Skigirl]

PC's behavior inside the school was bizarre to me because, well, sexual murder is bizarre. But all of his movements seemed very goal-directed to me. He was not "wandering around the halls" -- he was engaged in tasks -- removing Ritzer's belongings from her classroom so that people would think she had left the building, removing her body from the bathroom and hiding it, continuing his sexual assault since he was interrupted... all goal-oriented.

And all of the putative symptoms that the expert mentioned are also well within the range of normal behavior for people his age. Muttering is a passive-aggressive way of talking back with plausible deniability, withdrawal can be normal moodiness, etc. I just don't see anything that would scream, "this kid is schizophrenic". Plus, statistically, it's very unlikely at that age.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I take back my compliment of Dudley if he didn't conduct any tests. Why no MMPI or other personality test?

 

[jacct]

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD just quoted a Dr. Dudley article in which he wrote early psychological testing of defendant could hurt case

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: Did you consider the testing done of #PhilipChism as early as Oct. 31. 2013? Objection by defense. Now at sidebar.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
The dr. just admitted he advises attorneys not to conduct testing on defendants because of potential harm to a case.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley didn't review any of the testing done on #PhilipChism around the time of the crimes. This has led to a sidebar.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley agrees there was a screening tool that shows #PhilipChism suffered from depression. Report 9 days after Ritzer murder

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Report makes no mention of psychosis

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
9 days after murder, #PhilipCHism given youth self-report mental health screening tool. Nothing indicates psychosis, Dudley agrees.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Dudley on DYS records: "I didn’t go back and read all these records." #PhilipChism. Wonder if he meant to say that

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Mac: nothing in that mental health screening tool indicates psychosisDr. Dudley (after reviewing ) no acute signs

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Dr. Dudley: But it shows other things we're talking about,MacD: But this was after the murder of human being

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: But some of those symptoms similar to puberty.Dr. Dudley Thats why you look at them together, not alone.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: By the time you looked at #PhilipChism he was under indictment for rape and murderDr. Dudley yes

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Dudley I believe he was psychotic.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: When #PhilipChism arrived at DHS was he experiencing psychosis?Dr. Dudley yes.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 54s54 seconds ago Salem, MA
Dudley says #PhilipChism was experiencing psychosis when he brought box cutter, gloves to school on day he killed Ritzer.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 55s56 seconds ago
"He had been hearing voices since he was 10 years old." Voices got stronger a week b4 murder Dudley said

 

[jacct]

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago
ADA asks if #PhilipChism was experiencing psychosis when he took a test, talked to friends, other normal situations, Dudley says yes.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Sidebar now. We are close to finish of the day. McDougalls cross examination of Dr. Dudley, #PhilipChism expert, is very tough

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
The prosecution's problem: a large part of what has led Dudley to believe #PhilipChism was psychotic the day of murder is Chism's own words

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Judge asks jury if it will inconvenience them to stay til 4. At least one juror raises his hand. So they are dismissed til Mon.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
We've just broken for the weekend in middle of cross. Dudley must return Monday.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
So Dr. Dudley will be back on the stand on Monday morning. ADA will continue her cross. Then defense can redirect.

 

[jacct]

Was in a meeting and am just catching up. Is he reading the reports because he was hired at the last minute after the judge rejected the other expert?

No, he never read the competency report from the beginning of trial for some reason. Defense plans to ask questions about that report so he wanted time to read it.

 

[Skigirl]

No, he never read the competency report from the beginning of trial for some reason. Defense plans to ask questions about that report so he wanted time to read it.

That seems like quite a big "oopsy" to me :-/
I almost wish he'd been forced to confess that in cross rather than being given extra time to read it on the day he was supposed to testify.

 

[jacct]

Gosh, i was thinking "7 times" and it would have been more... it sounds more like he was treating Philip than that he was evaluating Philip. That is extremely thorough. The cynical side of me says that he was meeting with Philip as many times as necessary to get something he could use in court, though.

If he was treating Philip he should have prescribed an anti-psychotic in March. The problem to me is the defense didn't bring in an expert until this year, 2 years after the murder.

 

[AnaTeresa]

If Chism was experiencing psychosis there would have been evidence - journals, online communications, erratic behavior seen by other people, etc. There is no way the jury is going to buy this on Dudley's word alone. At first it sounded as if Dudley had been very thorough meeting with Chism so many times, and I had thought that would have included testing. To hear that it had not, and that Dudley is basing all of his opinion on Chism's own words? I think Dudley is a poor witness for the defense.

Breaking for the weekend is going to give the prosecutor, who is already hacked off at the defense, a lot of time to put together what's going to be a painful cross for Dudley on Monday. The defense did not plan this well at all, in my opinion. Dudley is going to get shredded.

 

[jacct]

If Chism was experiencing psychosis there would have been evidence - journals, online communications, erratic behavior seen by other people, etc. There is no way the jury is going to buy this on Dudley's word alone. At first it sounded as if Dudley had been very thorough meeting with Chism so many times, and I had thought that would have included testing. To hear that it had not, and that Dudley is basing all of his opinion on Chism's own words? I think Dudley is a poor witness for the defense.

Breaking for the weekend is going to give the prosecutor, who is already hacked off at the defense, a lot of time to put together what's going to be a painful cross for Dudley on Monday. The defense did not plan this well at all, in my opinion. Dudley is going to get shredded.

I thought the same thing about having to break at this point. That prosecutor is not happy and now has an opportunity to find even more things to ask Dr. Dudley about. I think it was very damning when she brought up the article he co-authored basically about how to game the court using mental health experts. I expect that to come up again Monday.

In his defense he wasn't given everything to review, just what the defense cherry picked and gave him. That puts him at a disadvantage and makes him look bad, I'm glad that the prosecution pointed out it was the defense that didn't give him all the videos and interviews which resulted in a possibly skewed diagnosis.

 

[Skigirl]

I thought the same thing about having to break at this point. That prosecutor is not happy and now has an opportunity to find even more things to ask Dr. Dudley about. I think it was very damning when she brought up the article he co-authored basically about how to game the court using mental health experts. I expect that to come up again Monday.

In his defense he wasn't given everything to review, just what the defense cherry picked and gave him. That puts him at a disadvantage and makes him look bad, I'm glad that the prosecution pointed out it was the defense that didn't give him all the videos and interviews which resulted in a possibly skewed diagnosis.

Did someone say that this was the expert who testified in the Petit murders on behalf of Komisarjevsky? I followed that case closely because I used to live in New Haven. If that's the same expert, his testimony did very little to help Komisarjevsky, and in that case, he had a heckuva lot more bizarre behavior to work with.

 

[Skigirl]

On another note, AnaTeresa brings up a good point, that chism's electronic and other communications would have evidenced mental illness, and nowadays it's pretty hard not to have communications. Is it possible that prosecution has those? And if they were pretty normal, could they introduce them as evidence at this point?

 

[AnaTeresa]

On another note, AnaTeresa brings up a good point, that chism's electronic and other communications would have evidenced mental illness, and nowadays it's pretty hard not to have communications. Is it possible that prosecution has those? And if they were pretty normal, could they introduce them as evidence at this point?

They probably have them, and if they did, then the defense would as well as part of discovery. I don't think the state needs to introduce normal communications. Right now, it's really the defense's burden to convince the jury that Chism was psychotic, and if they had anything like that which would bolster their argument, it would have been brought in. The fact that they haven't introduced anything makes me think they have nothing. :twocents:

I worked on a case where the juvenile defendant was diagnosed by our expert with a mental health condition which was a hard sell and the juvenile was viewed as malingering. The only reason we were able to get anywhere with it was from the vast amount of personal stuff we had for the juvenile, like journals, things from school, conversations with other people, medical records, etc. going back years. Without that, our case would have been sunk.

If the defense here wants to sell the jury that Chism has been having psychotic episodes since the age of ten, they need to give the jury proof of that. One doctor's evaluation isn't enough - and putting on a parade of witnesses who all said Chism was a normal boy really did not help their case. :twocents:

 

[Greggy]

If the defense here wants to sell the jury that Chism has been having psychotic episodes since the age of ten, they need to give the jury proof of that. One doctor's evaluation isn't enough - and putting on a parade of witnesses who all said Chism was a normal boy really did not help their case. :twocents:

I agree. The only thing schizophrenic about Chism seems to be the tactics of his Defense. Why get witnesses to testify that they liked him and that he was fine beforehand? If they wanted to have any chance of pulling off an insanity verdict, they should have had witness after witness testify that he has always been a nut who couldn't get along with people. Then back up this concept with his younger violent writings, drawings, etc. Dr. Dudley's mental health opinion that Chism is psychotic has been presented too late in the case. His testimony seems skewed by the Defense not showing him all the previous metal health data about Chism.

It must be rough being a lawyer defending a client that has committed a hideous crime and not having anything you can effectively use to even help reduce their sentence.

 

[jacct]

Greggy, I am curious about the strategy with the defense witnesses as well. Dr. Dudley did say that Philip had a good support system in TN so he was able to function well. But why did the defense bring in the 2 witnesses that talked about Philip from age 3 to age 10, before the move to TN? They testified he was normal, nice, well behaved all that time. And if Philip was psychotic in TN, even with a good support system, none of those witnesses saw any difference in Philip's behavior. He was still always normal, nice, and well behaved.

The defense has no evidence beyond this doctor to show any mental illness at any time in Philip's life prior to the murder. And they didn't have anything to support their insanity defense up until earlier this year when Dr. Dudley entered the case.

 

[Greggy]

Next Doctor, Please

The way the case is turning out suggests that the Defense team may have used other mental health professionals for evaluations during the last two years before finding Dr. Dudley. Perhaps earlier mental evaluations of Chism were unhelpful for Defense team purposes. Even Dr. Dudley wouldn't rule out that Chism knows what he did is wrong and, therefore, is legally responsible for the crimes.