MA MA - Dorchester, 2 BlkMales, poss 'Clayton' 14-16 (UP12973), & 'Hooker' 15-17 (UP12972), Oct'88

[aThousandYearsWide]

Wow…that’s possible. But what if the gold star thing is part of a gang that was speculated on here?

It could be gang related as well. I looked into the history of gold teeth which was pretty interesting. I found more info on it being a trend in Latin America as well as it also becoming really big in NY during the 80's.

The Ancient History of Grills - VICE

"Ancestors of the Mayan who now live in southeastern Mexico, Belize, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and El Salvador still wear mouth ornamentation. On a trip to Guatemala that Dr. E. J. Neiburger wrote about in his 2012 piece in the Journal of the Massachusetts Dental Society, he estimated that about 65 percent of Guatemalans wore some sort of gold dental decoration. In Central America, local dentists advertise their names next to pictures not of pearly whites but of flashy gold teeth... "Having a gold tooth is a sign that you've got enough resources to afford it—and it's shiny," adds Payton Sheets. Gold teeth are commonly worn by native Latin Americans throughout the region"

But emigrating north changed this outlook. Neiburger, an American dentist, tells of his experience with Central American patients who make appointments to replace gold teeth with what they call "American crowns," or white teeth. "Many of these immigrants will give up their gold in their attempt to acculturate to the American lifestyle,"

"In the 1970s parts of the West Indies, and Jamaica in particular, went through a slow economic period, and there wasn't much money for dental care, so gold teeth it was. Shabba Ranks had "one gold tooth" not because of fashion but because he probably didn't floss regularly. In the late 70s and the 80s, people from the West Indies started moving to New York, bringing along their gold teeth and sending money back home for proper dental care."

"By the late 1970s gold teeth had started popping up in mostly black neighborhoods of New York City... for West Indian immigrants and native New Yorkers alike, gold teeth became a fashion statement. "I started seeing everyday guys and girls, drug dealers, and hood stars wearing them," Hanif says. New Yorkers called them gold fronts back then, and many fashion-forward kids had a pair as a way to show their wealth, like the ancient Maya and Etruscans before them. By the mid 80s, Slick Rick was wearing grills in videos like "La Di Da Di." Big Daddy Kane and Kool G Rap followed soon after. With rap, grills grew into a look for the rich and famous. By the 90s, Flava Flav would make them ubiquitous. Grills became the visual aid to literally depict the exaggeration of hip-hop. It was the noun to flossing's verb."

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, grills were really really big in Boston during the hiphop days of the 80s, among all races and sexes too. It could be something very significant or it could be just a casual fashion thing.

 

[Aurora90]

I seem to recall someone mentioning that there is a gang that has a symbol of both the star and moon. Five nation of Chicago 5 or something along those lines... going to see if I can find it.

 

[Harrietthespy27]

BBM

Boston Police Department (Official)

SEEKING INFORMATION: The BPD Homicide Unit Requests the Public's Help in Efforts to Solve Cold Case

Two unidentified young males were found deceased in a small wooded area along Eldon Street in Dorchester on October 6, 1988. The males appeared to have been deceased for several days prior to being found. The first boy was estimated to be 14-16 years old at the time and stood approximately 5’04” tall, weighing around 130 lbs. He had short, cropped black hair and brown eyes. The boy was found wearing a gray sweater, blue shirt, blue jeans, red underwear, white socks, and white Avia sneakers. He may have gone by the name Clayton. The image shown is a facial reconstruction completed by a NCMEC Forensic Artist and depicts what this boy may have looked like in life.

The second young black male, approximately 15-17 years old was found deceased next to the first male. The second male is also unidentified but may have gone by the name Hooker.

Both males appear to have died around the same time. Investigation into their deaths has revealed that both males may have been from or had ties to the Bronx, New York area.

The Boston Police Department is actively investigating the facts and circumstances surrounding this incident. Anyone with information is strongly urged to contact the Detective John F. Cronin in the Boston Police Homicide/Cold Case Unit at (617)343-5837.

Possible Match for Clayton Doe
Kirk Quintons, 11 yo (1983)
September 18,1983
Bronx, NY
#MP6549
4'9" 70#
Last seen walking to the store to collect cans and buy a soda. Wearing blue jeans and blue and white sneakers.
Missing/Endangered

 

[Harrietthespy27]

Possible Match for Clayton Doe
Kirk Quintons, 11 yo (1983)
September 18,1983
Bronx, NY
#MP6549
4'9" 70#
Last seen walking to the store to collect cans and buy a soda. Wearing blue jeans and blue and white sneakers.
Missing/Endangered

This is an age progression of Kirk to 41 years.

 

[Harrietthespy27]

BBM

Boston Police Department (Official)

SEEKING INFORMATION: The BPD Homicide Unit Requests the Public's Help in Efforts to Solve Cold Case

Two unidentified young males were found deceased in a small wooded area along Eldon Street in Dorchester on October 6, 1988. The males appeared to have been deceased for several days prior to being found. The first boy was estimated to be 14-16 years old at the time and stood approximately 5’04” tall, weighing around 130 lbs. He had short, cropped black hair and brown eyes. The boy was found wearing a gray sweater, blue shirt, blue jeans, red underwear, white socks, and white Avia sneakers. He may have gone by the name Clayton. The image shown is a facial reconstruction completed by a NCMEC Forensic Artist and depicts what this boy may have looked like in life.

The second young black male, approximately 15-17 years old was found deceased next to the first male. The second male is also unidentified but may have gone by the name Hooker.

Both males appear to have died around the same time. Investigation into their deaths has revealed that both males may have been from or had ties to the Bronx, New York area.

The Boston Police Department is actively investigating the facts and circumstances surrounding this incident. Anyone with information is strongly urged to contact the Detective John F. Cronin in the Boston Police Homicide/Cold Case Unit at (617)343-5837.

Possible Match for "Hooker" Doe
Marvin Gibbs
3/29/85 (19 years old in 85)
Fallsburg, NY
5'9"-5'11" 170-190#
A blue jacket, brown pants, a red baseball cap, and possibly a gray and rust-colored sweater. Carrying a burgundy Nike duffel bag which may have contained extra clothe

African-American male. Black hair, brown eyes. Gibbs has a scar on his forehead just above his nose. He is of Jamaican descent.

Gibbs was last seen on March 29, 1985 in Fallsburg, New York. He was riding the Short Line bus that evening. He may have gotten off near the Delmar Hotel in Loch Sheldrake at 9:00 p.m. and walked away in the direction of Liberty.

A woman said she saw Gibbs while the two were riding the Short Line bus on the night he disappeared. She said the bus driver told Gibbs he had to get off the bus. The witness thought he was dropped near the Delmar Hotel in Loch Sheldrake. It was a dark night and she wasn’t sure. She saw him walking back toward Liberty carrying a burgundy Nike duffel bag, possibly with an extra change of clothes. This was about 9 p.m., the last time anybody saw him.

 

[Harrietthespy27]

Is there any chance hooker was marvin Gibbs?

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I was thinking the same thing. Marvin would have been 21 in 1988 but not much of a stretch

 

[Harrietthespy27]

Yeah, grills were really really big in Boston during the hiphop days of the 80s, among all races and sexes too. It could be something very significant or it could be just a casual fashion thing.

How do you feel about Kirk Quintons as a possible match for Clayton? They thought he was from the Bronx, like Kirk. Given his small stature, there wouldn't be very many matches in the Bronx. Kirk has not been ruled out yet as being Clayton.

 

[Aurora90]

Found an UID that had similar gold teeth to Flip. One was a star and the other was listed as an R, could the half moon be mistaken for an R somehow? Could Flip have relocated to Chicago?

2132UMIL

Regarding the star and moon gold teeth, I used to see them all the time on the Doe Network, but of course when I am actively looking for them now I can't find them lol. The majority of UID's I had seen with these dental plates were Hispanic and found in New Mexico or Arizona (I wonder if they had gotten ID'd which is why I can't find them now).

I also knew two people that had the same sun and moon gold teeth. When I was working in retail two regular customers had them. I never asked them about the teeth but know they hadn't been in the US long and previously lived in Mexico, so they most likely got the teeth done while there. I know that it was previously believed they were from Jamaica, what if Flip was Afro-Caribbean as well.

I also have speculated that Clayton and Hooker were their last names.

If my speculation is correct and it's from the Chicago gang, it makes sense this doe was found in Illinois...

5 people nation or something.. Can't recall the name...

 

[Harrietthespy27]

Found an UID that had similar gold teeth to Flip. One was a star and the other was listed as an R, could the half moon be mistaken for an R somehow? Could Flip have relocated to Chicago?

2132UMIL

Regarding the star and moon gold teeth, I used to see them all the time on the Doe Network, but of course when I am actively looking for them now I can't find them lol. The majority of UID's I had seen with these dental plates were Hispanic and found in New Mexico or Arizona (I wonder if they had gotten ID'd which is why I can't find them now).

I also knew two people that had the same sun and moon gold teeth. When I was working in retail two regular customers had them. I never asked them about the teeth but know they hadn't been in the US long and previously lived in Mexico, so they most likely got the teeth done while there. I know that it was previously believed they were from Jamaica, what if Flip was Afro-Caribbean as well.

I also have speculated that Clayton and Hooker were their last names.

Who has this grill because I found another case with one. How does it relate to Clayton and hooker

 

[carbuff]

Who has this grill because I found another case with one. How does it relate to Clayton and hooker

He's a third person who might be associated with the deceased boys:

The group’s alleged ringleader, Flip was described as 17 to 19-years old, five foot seven or five foot eight, medium build and wore a lot of gold jewelry around his neck.

One distinguishing feature Flip has is his two golden front teeth, one with a half moon design and the other depicting a star.

Flip was never found by police and it is widely believed he may have returned to New York following Clayton and Hooker’s murders.

Boston PD ask for help reuniting 1988 cold case Bronx victims with their families – Bronx Times

We've wondered whether Flip is also deceased somewhere, killed by the same people who killed Clayton and Hooker.

 

[Grungster]

He's a third person who might be associated with the deceased boys:

The group’s alleged ringleader, Flip was described as 17 to 19-years old, five foot seven or five foot eight, medium build and wore a lot of gold jewelry around his neck.

One distinguishing feature Flip has is his two golden front teeth, one with a half moon design and the other depicting a star.

Flip was never found by police and it is widely believed he may have returned to New York following Clayton and Hooker’s murders.

Boston PD ask for help reuniting 1988 cold case Bronx victims with their families – Bronx Times

We've wondered whether Flip is also deceased somewhere, killed by the same people who killed Clayton and Hooker.

From what I remember they beat up Flip too.

 

[carbuff]

It occurred to me that Flip can be a nickname for Philip/Felipe, or for the last name Phillips. I didn't immediately see anybody who might be possible, however.

 

[Harrietthespy27]

He's a third person who might be associated with the deceased boys:

The group’s alleged ringleader, Flip was described as 17 to 19-years old, five foot seven or five foot eight, medium build and wore a lot of gold jewelry around his neck.

One distinguishing feature Flip has is his two golden front teeth, one with a half moon design and the other depicting a star.

Flip was never found by police and it is widely believed he may have returned to New York following Clayton and Hooker’s murders.

Boston PD ask for help reuniting 1988 cold case Bronx victims with their families – Bronx Times

We've wondered whether Flip is also deceased somewhere, killed by the same people who killed Clayton and Hooker.

There is a reason people on the streets don't carry ID and use street names. I really do wonder how they got this information- like it's so specific that the person who told them that, at least knows them as acquaintances.

 

[Harrietthespy27]

I saw teeth like that, but it was a Jane Doe case actually. Namus profile:The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Never seen or heard of this in literally any other case.

 

[carbuff]

There is a reason people on the streets don't carry ID and use street names. I really do wonder how they got this information- like it's so specific that the person who told them that, at least knows them as acquaintances.

Yeah, I think that's a fair assumption under the circumstances. I suppose they might not want to say any more so they don't cause more trouble for the person who told them.

Flip sounds like he'd really stand out in a crowd.

 

[Melt71]

Possible Match for "Hooker" Doe
Marvin Gibbs
3/29/85 (19 years old in 85)
Fallsburg, NY
5'9"-5'11" 170-190#
A blue jacket, brown pants, a red baseball cap, and possibly a gray and rust-colored sweater. Carrying a burgundy Nike duffel bag which may have contained extra clothe

African-American male. Black hair, brown eyes. Gibbs has a scar on his forehead just above his nose. He is of Jamaican descent.

Gibbs was last seen on March 29, 1985 in Fallsburg, New York. He was riding the Short Line bus that evening. He may have gotten off near the Delmar Hotel in Loch Sheldrake at 9:00 p.m. and walked away in the direction of Liberty.

A woman said she saw Gibbs while the two were riding the Short Line bus on the night he disappeared. She said the bus driver told Gibbs he had to get off the bus. The witness thought he was dropped near the Delmar Hotel in Loch Sheldrake. It was a dark night and she wasn’t sure. She saw him walking back toward Liberty carrying a burgundy Nike duffel bag, possibly with an extra change of clothes. This was about 9 p.m., the last time anybody saw him.

I was thinking the same thing. Marvin would have been 21 in 1988 but not much of a stretch

Marvin was suggested earlier in this thread. Did you submit him @Aurora90 ?

 

[InThisTogether808]

Marvin was suggested earlier in this thread. Did you submit him @Aurora90 ?

I read an article that said police have a body (I believe found in West Virginia) that they believe is Marvin Gibbs. They’ve been looking for his mother Pearl Gibbs for years to do a DNA match. They’ve been struggling to find her.

 

[Aurora90]

Marvin was suggested earlier in this thread. Did you submit him @Aurora90 ?

No I didn't. Because I'm not the one who thought that either of these boys were marvin. And I still don't. I thought maybe I knew who Flip was. I have no guesses as to who these boys might be, only a possible lead on Flip.

 

[carbuff]

No I didn't. Because I'm not the one who thought that either of these boys were marvin. And I still don't. I thought maybe I knew who Flip was. I have no guesses as to who these boys might be, only a possible lead on Flip.

Which sounds like a pretty good lead. But Flip hasn't been reported missing, has he?