MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

[Tricia]

CLICK HERE AT 10:00 PM EASTERN TONIGHT AS PODCASTER AND WEBSLEUTHS MEMBER GRAY HUGHES IS OUR GUEST ON WEBSLEUTHS YOUTUBE LIVE.

Thanks, everyone.

See you tonight,
Tricia

 

[somequestions]

This always serves well, when determing a broad outline of what to look for:

Lecter: First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?
Clarice Starling: He kills women...
Lecter: No! That is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does? What needs does he serve by killing?
Starling: Anger ... social acceptance .... and ... sexual frustrations...
Lecter: No! He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? ...We begin by coveting what we see every day.
​

Movies are movies. This is so sad to admit, but I read somewhere that new police cadets at the LAPD were at one time either required or advised to watch episodes of Columbo. So my theory about the work supervisor is actually not an original theory I thought of myself. It is from an episode of Columbo called "Murder: A Self Portrait".

So when I saw that one of Molly's sandals was in front of her chair, but the other beside it, I thought maybe she was interrupted for some reason. I think most people would put their sandals together. And do we know if the picture I have seen is the actual picture of the crime scene out on the Commins Pond beach?

But if you went into a police station with a theory from a t.v. show, the only thing police are going to think is, "You really havvvveee been watching too much t.v."

 

[Boston Corbett]

Movies are movies. This is so sad to admit, but I read somewhere that new police cadets at the LAPD were at one time either required or advised to watch episodes of Columbo. So my theory about the work supervisor is actually not an original theory I thought of myself. It is from an episode of Columbo called "Murder: A Self Portrait".

So when I saw that one of Molly's sandals was in front of her chair, but the other beside it, I thought maybe she was interrupted for some reason. I think most people would put their sandals together. And do we know if the picture I have seen is the actual picture of the crime scene out on the Commins Pond beach?

But if you went into a police station with a theory from a t.v. show, the only thing police are going to think is, "You really havvvveee been watching too much t.v."

Yeah, agreed about the TV thing, but mention of Lecter made only because of the content of the Marcus Aurelius thing, which is a timeless and testable truth.

 

[somequestions]

Yeah, agreed about the TV thing, but mention of Lecter made only because of the content of the Marcus Aurelius thing, which is a timeless and testable truth.

I am familiar with the Marcus Aurelius reference from the movie, Silence of the Lambs. There is nothing wrong with using a reference like that, but it just does not help include or eliminate anyone in Molly Bish's investigation. I think police have always thought it was someone local.

Many people could have coveted in this case. It could be the work supervisor. It could be the sand truck driver since it sounds like the family knows this person as a business person. It could be one of Molly's girlfriends parents. It could be a coach or teacher at her school. It could be another classmate. It could be someone in Molly's lifeguarding class. It could be one of the Commins Pond beach patrons or workers. It could be one of the fishermen at Commins Pond.

And it could be the guy in the white car that was spotted by so many people that morning. It could be anyone who may or may not have saw Molly Bish before June 27, 2000. You cannot rule anything out because you just don't know.

 

[Boston Corbett]

Yes, it could be lots of people. But start with locals familiar with Ms. Bish. Marcus Aurelius did not write magical formulae - he did establish reasonable parameters.

 

[somequestions]

Yes, it could be lots of people. But start with locals familiar with Ms. Bish. Marcus Aurelius did not write magical formulae - he did establish reasonable parameters.

If you can come up with a reasonable suspect using Marcus Aurelius that you can actually narrow down, you understand the Molly Bish case better than I do. Even things like her sandals being apart could be anyone who may have interrupted her out on the beach. It does not prove anything.

In my opinion, there is absolutely zero evidence that points to anyone having any involvement in Molly Bish's case. Of course, we do not know what the police know, but it does not seem like much.

 

[somequestions]

Mutatis Mutandis- That is why I underlined that it could be anyone who may have interrupted her out on the beach.

 

[Richard]

In cases where someone is known to have been abducted (such as Molly's case) the particulars of each individual situation point to what might be a more likely scenario than another. True, without a definite answer, anything is possible, but facts may point to one possibility being stronger than another.

If, for example, a child disappears from a large, busy shopping mall or carnival, it would be more likely that it was a random crime of opportunity by any "stranger" than a close relative or acquaintance who carefully planned the abduction. But - it does not rule anything out.

If someone disappears from a more secure or isolated place, where only a few persons would normally go, then the likely hood of the crime being perpetrated by someone having access or being familiar with the location is much stronger than a random occurrence. However, again, other possibilities still exist.

The motive of the perpetrator has to be considered, if one can be determined.

 

[somequestions]

In cases where someone is known to have been abducted (such as Molly's case) the particulars of each individual situation point to what might be a more likely scenario than another. True, without a definite answer, anything is possible, but facts may point to one possibility being stronger than another.

If, for example, a child disappears from a large, busy shopping mall or carnival, it would be more likely that it was a random crime of opportunity by any "stranger" than a close relative or acquaintance who carefully planned the abduction. But - it does not rule anything out.

If someone disappears from a more secure or isolated place, where only a few persons would normally go, then the likely hood of the crime being perpetrated by someone having access or being familiar with the location is much stronger than a random occurrence. However, again, other possibilities still exist.

The motive of the perpetrator has to be considered, if one can be determined.

I think you bring up an interesting point about which scenario is more likely. Without some type of scientific evidence I do not know how this case would get solved. So I came up with an idea of how I would try to solve the case, but it based on a lot of assumptions. My idea for solving the case is alibis. And this idea only works for known people associated with the case. It does not work for people like the man in the white car since we do not know who he is. The following idea would also never hold up in a court of law.

In my opinion, the first assumption is that even if the killing and placing of the body all took place consecutive with each other it would take close to an hour. So we know that 3 years later Molly Bish's remains were located on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA about 5 miles from Commins Pond. So the next assumption is that the killer would have to live relatively close to Whiskey Hill. The last assumption is that it is unlikely any of the known suspects in the case would be able to work together to corroborate each other's alibi.

So I would visit each person known to the case and have them write down on a piece of paper where they were and who or what can verify their whereabouts for between 10-11 am on June 27, 2000. As long as they have some person or something that can be verified I would eliminate them from the investigation. I think if people wanted to help, they would try to write down as much information as possible. I think the killer(if it was someone known to the case) would write down nothing as it would not help them since writing anything down would open them up to being caught in a lie, especially a lie written down on paper to be used as evidence. But 20 years later what if 3 people write down that they do not remember and that is it? That is certainly believeable after all this time.

 

[somequestions]

Molly Bish's case is a great example of overthinking. Her mother saw a man with a mustache in a white car at the Commin's Pond Beach parking lot staring at her daughter on June 26, 2000. The next day June 27, 2000, this same white car was spotted in the Commin's Pond Beach parking lot by the sand truck driver and also at St. Paul Cemetery by a cemetery worker. They all saw a white car similar to the one seen on June 26th. So how do you explain all these sightings? Is it just a coincidence?

I think the only thing you can do is check out everyone known to the case and their alibis for between 10-11:30 am on June 27, 2000. That is about the closest you can get to narrowing it down that it was indeed the man in the white car who committed this crime. Because while physical evidence is great, I still think crimes get solved because of people. They get solved because of police officers who do their job and do it well.

 

[somequestions]

If the kidnapper arrived first via St. Paul's Cemetery, how did he see Molly Bish from the hill behind the pond? It seems like the only place he could wait would be on the grade of the hill which would be kind of hard on the ankles. And if you consider the foliage was probably thick in late June, it makes it more interesting.

So if the kidnapper was there first, before Molly Bish showed up to set up her stuff, wouldn't he have to be walking around on the beach so that he could visibly see that she had actually arrived?

The answer must be that the kidnapper in the white car was waiting at the car wash. When Molly Bish's car passed the car wash, the kidnapper's car pulled onto the road to head over to St. Paul's Cemetery. And that is how he knew she would arrive at the beach that day instead of being down on the beach watching her set up her stuff.

I know it is another small detail I am analyzing too closely.

 

[somequestions]

Many times it is how something is portrayed through a crime television program that determines how you think about a case. For example, I have seen many shows where the last person to see the victim alive ends up being the killer. For that reason I always wondered about the sand truck driver in this case.

However, other news programs lead me to different questions about the work supervisor. For example, on the 48 hours program about Molly's case, they feature a witness who we will call SW. She seemed very detail oriented in her description of Molly Bish's belongings out on the beach since she said she was one of the first to arrive at the beach that day. One of the things she said was that Molly's sandals were in front and her Palm Springs water bottle was in the right heel. But if you take the "crime scene picture" from 48 hours as being the actual crime scene photo, it leads to questions. The witness said both sandals were in front, but in the picture they are not. So I thought maybe the kidnapper closed the first aid kit and moved a sandal to make it appear she was interrupted and that therefore she must have been kidnapped at that spot so as to explain why the first aid kit was open. Or else police might have started wondering if she was kidnapped on a different spot at the beach.

So hopefully that explains my many posts on this case. At least I solved one mystery. All these pictures you see on all these shows like Unsolved Mysteries, Dark Minds, and 48 hours are not actual pictures of the Commins Pond beach crime scene.

 

[3rd degee Burns]

I had detailed credible info that I gave to authorities. It came from a man who was working that day. It definately was not the man in the white car. They thankedme and that was it. I dont think they ever interviewed the man and the perdon he named an ex marine was never charged....the man who gave me the info is dying....maybe they are letting sleeping dogs lie as it would be a major embarrassment to some....

 

[Richard]

I had detailed credible info that I gave to authorities. It came from a man who was working that day. It definately was not the man in the white car. They thankedme and that was it. I dont think they ever interviewed the man and the perdon he named an ex marine was never charged....the man who gave me the info is dying....maybe they are letting sleeping dogs lie as it would be a major embarrassment to some....

I would suggest that you call whomever is the current case officer and again give them the information that you gave before.

 

[PayrollNerd]

I had detailed credible info that I gave to authorities. It came from a man who was working that day. It definately was not the man in the white car. They thankedme and that was it. I dont think they ever interviewed the man and the perdon he named an ex marine was never charged....the man who gave me the info is dying....maybe they are letting sleeping dogs lie as it would be a major embarrassment to some....

The advent of DNA technology means there are no secrets anymore. Witness get old, memories get poor but DNA never dies. Go rattle their chain in person. Take a written page of information and wait while they make a copy. Ask them if they'll take an official police report from you regarding the case. In other words, force their hand with documentation. Make it easy for them. JMO

 

[somequestions]

I had detailed credible info that I gave to authorities. It came from a man who was working that day. It definately was not the man in the white car. They thankedme and that was it. I dont think they ever interviewed the man and the perdon he named an ex marine was never charged....the man who gave me the info is dying....maybe they are letting sleeping dogs lie as it would be a major embarrassment to some....

I hope the information is followed up on. I have overanalyzed this case to the point of exhaustion so it would be nice to see it solved.

But since Molly Bish was abducted from a public beach, I think it is a very tough case to solve. I try to gleam any type of information I can. I watched the gas station surveillance again thinking that maybe if someone was following her they might follow her into the gas station. And if you look closely you will see the Poland Springs water bottle in her right hand. So maybe the 48 hours mystery picture of the crime scene really is a real picture since I think the same type water bottle is in it?

But really when it comes to analyzing this case, for all anyone knows it could have been someone visiting family in Warren, MA who lived in Florida, for example, who went out to the beach to relax and smoke a cigarette. They see the lifeguard and come up with a plan that they decide to put in motion the next day. Then Molly Bish is gone. And in my opinion, the case seems to be frozen in time on June 27, 2000.

 

[somequestions]

I think I was so mesmerized by the 48 hours mystery crime scene photo and how real it was or was not because of how detail-oriented the eyewitness was, thinking that I saw something that other people did not see like which heel the Poland Springs water bottle was in.

 

[somequestions]

[[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't it be better to give your information directly to the police instead of posting it here? I do not think you should use names when there is no proof this person is guilty of anything.

So if you have information give it to the police and let them decide.

 

[weepingangel]

Molly Bish case still unsolved 20 years later
More at link

WARREN - In the 20 years since her sister Molly disappeared, Heather Bish has been many things: a mother, a daughter, a sibling and a survivor.

Now, she finds herself in a new role alongside her brother John Bish Jr., as fierce protectors of their parents.

 

[somequestions]

Molly Bish case still unsolved 20 years later
More at link

WARREN - In the 20 years since her sister Molly disappeared, Heather Bish has been many things: a mother, a daughter, a sibling and a survivor.

Now, she finds herself in a new role alongside her brother John Bish Jr., as fierce protectors of their parents.

Maybe there will end up being some type of forensic evidence that ends up solving this case? It is hard to even come up with anything that may have been done differently other than the lack of taking seriously Molly Bish having gone missing in those first few hours.

To this day, you cannot help but wonder if it was the man in the white car who Molly's mother caught staring at her daughter the day before the abduction? The white car was anywhere and everywhere according to all the witnesses who saw it. And they never found the man from that sketch.

So the mystery remains. What happened to Molly Bish, the Commins Pond Beach lifeguard, at approximately 10 am on Tuesday, June 27, 2000? ​