MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

[Soulmagent]

I noticed something in some old video clips about the case that I either had not remembered or assumed to be correct. Out on Commins Pond beach, back on June 27, 2000, when Molly Bish was abducted, there was no large white lifeguard chair. I guess now it makes sense as to why she used a lawn chair for lifeguarding. I do not think I noticed this detail before.

As for who abducted and murdered Molly Bish, my opinion is that whoever it was had to already be there, but that could be anyone. There is not enough time otherwise. This person seems to have great timing if the kid on the bike who arrived at 10 am to Commins Pond Beach is correct about his watch beeping at that time, therefore signifying it was indeed 10 am.

About the only thing to do in this case is to try to narrow the already narrow time window in which Molly Bish was abducted from Commins Pond beach. I used to live in a small town and sometimes on the hour the church bells would ring. It usually happened on quarter hours. I wondered if Warren, MA has something like that and if the kid on the bike remembered hearing church bells to verify that it was actually 10 am that he arrived at the pond?

If the time information is correct from the kid on the bike, then I think you can narrow it down to Molly Bish being abducted from Commins Pond Beach between 9:58 - 10am or at least that is when she was removed from her lifeguard spot.

We know a lot of stuff that happened right before she went missing . We do not know , who her teachers were , who went to her church,who knew she worked there .
We have years of research and profiles about abductions and missing peoples cases.
Stranger abductions are very rare they say, even rarer would be one that happened within 2 minutes.
Other things that seem to co sign the idea she knew her killer is that she was found in the neighboring county,ya know not that close,but close.And your conclusion they had to already be there ,really rings true.

 

[somequestions]

We know a lot of stuff that happened right before she went missing . We do not know , who her teachers were , who went to her church,who knew she worked there .
We have years of research and profiles about abductions and missing peoples cases.
Stranger abductions are very rare they say, even rarer would be one that happened within 2 minutes.
Other things that seem to co sign the idea she knew her killer is that she was found in the neighboring county,ya know not that close,but close.And your conclusion they had to already be there ,really rings true.

There is still one thing that is strange to me. If the abductor was already there, and it certainly appears they were, then why did they not start the abduction when the sand truck driver left?

I was watching videos on youtube about trucks delivering sand or dirt and most of the time it takes 2-3 minutes to drop a load of sand or dirt. According to the story, when Molly Bish and her mother arrived the sand truck was already dropping the sand in the parking lot.

I have also seen some videos from people who went to Commins Pond and walked from the parking lot to the spot on the beach where it is believed Molly Bish was abducted from. It seems to take around 2 minutes to walk from the parking lot to the spot on the beach where her lifeguard stuff was set up.

I would have thought by the time Molly Bish reached her lifeguard spot on the beach the sand truck would be gone. Yet she had enough time to set up a chair, put a towel over it, open the first aid kit, take off her sandals, and drink from her water bottle.

I have never bought the idea that this abductor needed a ruse of being injured to abduct Molly Bish while out on a secluded beach. Why would you need a ruse? No one is around. I could understand a ruse if the abductor was trying to get the victim away from a public place with witnesses, but Commins Pond does not seem like that type of place.

I wonder how long it would take to setup all the lifeguard items out at that spot on the Commins Pond Beach? If the abuctor was already there, why did they wait to actually abduct Molly Bish(based on the lifeguard stuff being set up)? I suppose there could be many different reasons like they wanted it to appear that maybe she had drowned? But people would eventually realize that was not the case so what would the point be to that theory?

It seems like such a strange contradiction, the abductor already being there, but waiting to actually abduct Molly Bish from her lifeguard spot out on Commins Pond Beach. Also, a ruse makes you stop what you are doing to deal with the person, but Molly Bish was clearly moving around between the backpack on the bench and the lawn chair.

 

[somequestions]

It would be interesting to read the reported statements in this case from back on June 27, 2000.

Molly Bish and her mother left the gas station at 9:51am and arrived at Commins Pond at about 9:56am(my guess picking up police radio and driving to pond took 5 minutes). They arrived as the sand truck was dropping sand according to the statement made in a video about the case. My guess is it takes about 2-3 minutes to drop a load of sand from videos I have seen online. If Molly Bish gets out of the car and walks to the beach with her stuff it would take about 2 minutes. That puts her out on the beach to start setting up her stuff at 9:58am.

A kid on a bike supposedly showed up to the pond at 10am exactly as their watch beeped on the hour. Molly Bish was gone from the beach according to this kid. I wondered how long it takes for someone on a bike to get to Commins Pond riding a bike down Commins Pond road or if the kid lived on Commins Pond Road, from wherever they lived on Commins Pond Road? Did the kid on the bike pass the sand truck driver as the sand truck driver left on Commins Pond road? I thought Commins Pond Road was one way in and one way out. Did the kid on the bike take a different route to get to Commins Pond?

There are lots of questions in this case.

 

[somequestions]

The thing about any type of theory online is that you do not know what the police know. For example, maybe the work supervisor did it or the sand truck driver or really any person you can come up with as a person of interest. But let's assume that the police know that, for example, the sand truck driver stopped at McDonalds and picked up a cup of coffee at 10:05am on the morning of the abduction. They can prove this with a receipt and surveillance video that has never been released to the public. It does not mean the sand driver is completely innocent as maybe Molly Bish was unconscious in his truck, but it probably does make it a lot less likely that he is involved.

This is only an example of why eventually you get to a point(especially in a case that has DNA) where you come to the conclusion that there is probably nothing more to write.

 

[somequestions]

In the case of Molly Bish, supposedly a kid on a bike showed up to the beach at 10 am on Tuesday, June 27th, 2000, and did not see the lifeguard, Molly Bish, there at that time. This kid knows this due to their watch beeping at 10am.

The other day was the daylight savings time change. I changed the time on my watch to reflect the new time. About an hour later, my watch made a "beep, beep" sound. I could not understand why, but when I looked at the time it was because it was on the full hour. Now it makes that "beep, beep" sound every hour.

Hopefully police got that kid's watch and got the real exact time based on how much ahead or behind it was from the real on-the-hour time. I think this would give a very good baseline to establish when exactly Molly Bish was gone from Commins Pond Beach.

According to the 48 Hours mystery show, a parent showed up at around 10:20 am and besides not seeing Molly Bish there, described the lawn chair with towel draped over it, the open first aid kit, and the bookbag on the bench. What would have been interesting to hear is what the kid on the bike saw since they were actually the first person to arrive at the beach after Molly Bish was abducted. But like so many cases, we do not know the same information as the investigators on the case.

 

[somequestions]

The show with the information about the 14 year old boy who arrived by bike to Commins pond is called, On the Case with Paula Zahn. The episode is called, Gone in 3 minutes (which I think is a good title).

There was something else in the episode that was sort of interesting, but maybe my interpretation is wrong. According to Molly''s sister, Heather, Molly had only been alone at the lifeguard job for about 3 days. Even though she worked as a lifeguard for 8 days, her brother had been training her, probably over the previous 5 days.

There is no information about anyone close to the pond in the episode, whether it be the work supervisor, sand truck driver, or cemetery workers. I can only guess these people close to the pond area were cleared by police through alibis, etc.

No matter who it was that abducted and murdered Molly Bish, I definitely think the surveillance of Molly Bish could only have happened on Monday, June 26th before the abduction was carried out a little before 10 am on Tuesday, June 27th. The reason is the stared down between Molly's mother and the man in the white car on Monday, June 26th. If the abductor already was after Molly Bish and knew about the path in the cemetery, I do not think he would have gone to the parking lot to stare at her mother.

The question is how many people saw a white car in the cemetery area between 10 -11 am on Monday, June 26th? I think an abductor is going to want to make sure there is not a fence between the pond property and the cemetery. I think the abductor is going to do the surveillance for the period of time they plan to do the abduction the next day. I think the abductor is going to want to at least drive through St. Paul's Cemetery to make sure the back of the pond has a driving path that is close to the woods and is not just grass if they cannot see the back of the cemetery. It looks like the land slopes downwards towards the woods in the back of St. Paul's Cemetery where it is thought the car was waiting.

There are so many different scenarios that could make a person familiar with the cemetery area and its connection the pond. Anybody who ever attended a funeral there or worked at the cemetery or biked on the paths behind Commins Pond would know about it. One time I read that marching band staged there for practice leading up to the 4th of July, maybe for 4th of July parade.

At least for myself, I would want to know how long it takes to go from the gas station, get the police radio from the police station, drive to the pond, get out and walk to the beach area where her lifeguard stuff was set up, set up the lifeguard stuff, take off sandals and put water bottle in one, and open the first aid kit.

 

[Baddux]

The show with the information about the 14 year old boy who arrived by bike to Commins pond is called, On the Case with Paula Zahn. The episode is called, Gone in 3 minutes (which I think is a good title).

There was something else in the episode that was sort of interesting, but maybe my interpretation is wrong. According to Molly''s sister, Heather, Molly had only been alone at the lifeguard job for about 3 days. Even though she worked as a lifeguard for 8 days, her brother had been training her, probably over the previous 5 days.

There is no information about anyone close to the pond in the episode, whether it be the work supervisor, sand truck driver, or cemetery workers. I can only guess these people close to the pond area were cleared by police through alibis, etc.

No matter who it was that abducted and murdered Molly Bish, I definitely think the surveillance of Molly Bish could only have happened on Monday, June 26th before the abduction was carried out a little before 10 am on Tuesday, June 27th. The reason is the stared down between Molly's mother and the man in the white car on Monday, June 26th. If the abductor already was after Molly Bish and knew about the path in the cemetery, I do not think he would have gone to the parking lot to stare at her mother.

The question is how many people saw a white car in the cemetery area between 10 -11 am on Monday, June 26th? I think an abductor is going to want to make sure there is not a fence between the pond property and the cemetery. I think the abductor is going to do the surveillance for the period of time they plan to do the abduction the next day. I think the abductor is going to want to at least drive through St. Paul's Cemetery to make sure the back of the pond has a driving path that is close to the woods and is not just grass if they cannot see the back of the cemetery. It looks like the land slopes downwards towards the woods in the back of St. Paul's Cemetery where it is thought the car was waiting.

There are so many different scenarios that could make a person familiar with the cemetery area and its connection the pond. Anybody who ever attended a funeral there or worked at the cemetery or biked on the paths behind Commins Pond would know about it. One time I read that marching band staged there for practice leading up to the 4th of July, maybe for 4th of July parade.

At least for myself, I would want to know how long it takes to go from the gas station, get the police radio from the police station, drive to the pond, get out and walk to the beach area where her lifeguard stuff was set up, set up the lifeguard stuff, take off sandals and put water bottle in one, and open the first aid kit

are these questions representative of you line of inquiry?

1. Did the kid on the bike take a different route to Comins Pond on the day Molly Bish disappeared, and if so, what did he see?
2. Why would an abductor need to use a ruse in a secluded area like Comins Pond to kidnap Molly Bish?
3. How much time is typically required to set up a lifeguard station, and how does this relate to the timeline of Molly Bish's abduction?
4. Can the actions of the sand truck driver on the day of the abduction provide an alibi, and what does this imply about his involvement?
5. Considering a kid on a bike arrived shortly after Molly Bish was last seen, why were there no sightings of her or any suspicious activity?
6. Was Molly Bish under surveillance before her abduction, and what role could the white car seen by her mother play in this scenario?

 

[somequestions]

are these questions representative of you line of inquiry?

1. Did the kid on the bike take a different route to Comins Pond on the day Molly Bish disappeared, and if so, what did he see?
2. Why would an abductor need to use a ruse in a secluded area like Comins Pond to kidnap Molly Bish?
3. How much time is typically required to set up a lifeguard station, and how does this relate to the timeline of Molly Bish's abduction?
4. Can the actions of the sand truck driver on the day of the abduction provide an alibi, and what does this imply about his involvement?
5. Considering a kid on a bike arrived shortly after Molly Bish was last seen, why were there no sightings of her or any suspicious activity?
6. Was Molly Bish under surveillance before her abduction, and what role could the white car seen by her mother play in this scenario?

1. I think I would be most interested in whatever route was taken, the longer it puts the kid on the bike on the same road as the sand truck driver leaving the area.

2. This is a very important question so I will take the time to explain it. Let's assume for a second that on Monday, June 26th, when Molly Bish and her mother arrive at Commins Pond, Mrs. Bish does not wait around. Let's assume she drops Molly off quickly and does not think about the white car in the parking lot at all. Or we could even assume that maybe Molly drives herself to the pond. If that had happened, would the abductor have waited all the way for Molly Bish to walk the approximately 2 minutes out to the beach area to set up the lifeguard stuff before abducting her?

I suppose there is the possibility that the man in the white car only decided to become an abductor while sitting there smoking a cigarette in their car because if they had parked their car and gotten out of it before Mrs. Bish arrived or if Molly had driven alone, then I wonder if they would have allowed Molly Bish to walk all the way to the beach and set up her stuff before needing a ruse to abduct her from an empty pond?

3. For my own curiousity, I was interested in more than just the amount of time to set up the lifeguard stuff. I would be interested how long everything would take from leaving the gas station.

4. Everyone needs an alibi. These people include the work supervisor, the sand truck driver, cemetery workers, maintenance people at the beach, or anyone who may have had an opportunity to commit the crime. Police probably have all this information.

5. I think the likely answer is she was already abducted or at least removed from the lifeguard area around her lawn chair.

6. Read my point in #2. I wonder sometimes if a sand truck had not been in the Commins Pond parking lot on the day of the actual abduction, June 27, 2000, whether or not the abduction would have occurred at or near the parking lot and not even made it out onto the beach. You cannot see the beach from the parking lot. This means at some point the abductor had to figure out the layout and how the cemetery connected to the beach.

Monday, June 26th, 2000 does play into the crime because I wonder what the plan would have been had the abduction opportunity actually presented itself. I guess the only conclusion is that the abductor chose to plan to commit the abduction the next day. The abductor must have originally been at Commins Pond smoking a cigarette to sit and watch and not because they were there to abduct Molly Bish. That thought only occurred to the abductor after Molly got out of the car and they got into a stare down with her mother. Or if the man in the white car was there looking for any victim, his thought process had to be to commit the crime near the parking lot since that is where his car is located.

But I guess the abductor could have parked their car in the cemetery and waited for any female victim to be the first one to walk out onto the beach. The kid on the bike almost was there before Molly Bish, although I question how close they got to the lifeguard stuff since it might have been tough trying to ride their bike through the sand.

 

[Baddux]

1. I think I would be most interested in whatever route was taken, the longer it puts the kid on the bike on the same road as the sand truck driver leaving the area.

2. This is a very important question so I will take the time to explain it. Let's assume for a second that on Monday, June 26th, when Molly Bish and her mother arrive at Commins Pond, Mrs. Bish does not wait around. Let's assume she drops Molly off quickly and does not think about the white car in the parking lot at all. Or we could even assume that maybe Molly drives herself to the pond. If that had happened, would the abductor have waited all the way for Molly Bish to walk the approximately 2 minutes out to the beach area to set up the lifeguard stuff before abducting her?

I suppose there is the possibility that the man in the white car only decided to become an abductor while sitting there smoking a cigarette in their car because if they had parked their car and gotten out of it before Mrs. Bish arrived or if Molly had driven alone, then I wonder if they would have allowed Molly Bish to walk all the way to the beach and set up her stuff before needing a ruse to abduct her from an empty pond?

3. For my own curiousity, I was interested in more than just the amount of time to set up the lifeguard stuff. I would be interested how long everything would take from leaving the gas station.

4. Everyone needs an alibi. These people include the work supervisor, the sand truck driver, cemetery workers, maintenance people at the beach, or anyone who may have had an opportunity to commit the crime. Police probably have all this information.

5. I think the likely answer is she was already abducted or at least removed from the lifeguard area around her lawn chair.

6. Read my point in #2. I wonder sometimes if a sand truck had not been in the Commins Pond parking lot on the day of the actual abduction, June 27, 2000, whether or not the abduction would have occurred at or near the parking lot and not even made it out onto the beach. You cannot see the beach from the parking lot. This means at some point the abductor had to figure out the layout and how the cemetery connected to the beach.

Monday, June 26th, 2000 does play into the crime because I wonder what the plan would have been had the abduction opportunity actually presented itself. I guess the only conclusion is that the abductor chose to plan to commit the abduction the next day. The abductor must have originally been at Commins Pond smoking a cigarette to sit and watch and not because they were there to abduct Molly Bish. That thought only occurred to the abductor after Molly got out of the car and they got into a stare down with her mother. Or if the man in the white car was there looking for any victim, his thought process had to be to commit the crime near the parking lot since that is where his car is located.

But I guess the abductor could have parked their car in the cemetery and waited for any female victim to be the first one to walk out onto the beach. The kid on the bike almost was there before Molly Bish, although I question how close they got to the lifeguard stuff since it might have been tough trying to ride their bike through the sand.

is this closer?

1. Kid on Bike's Route and Timing:
   • What was the specific route taken by the kid on the bike on the day of the abduction?
   • How does this route intersect with the path of the sand truck driver?
   • Could the kid have witnessed anything relevant while on this route?
2. Abductor's Strategy and Ruse:
   • What are common strategies used by abductors in similar cases, especially in secluded areas?
   • How likely is it that the abductor acted spontaneously versus having a premeditated plan?
   • In abduction cases, how often are ruses used, and what forms do they typically take?
3. Lifeguard Station Setup Timeline:
   • How long does it typically take to set up a lifeguard station?
   • What was Molly Bish's usual routine for setting up the station?
   • How does this timeline align with her last known activities and the abduction timeline?
4. Alibis and Potential Involvement:
   • Who were the individuals needing alibis in this case (e.g., sand truck driver, cemetery workers, beach maintenance people)?
   • What alibis were provided, and how do they align with the known timeline of events?
5. Absence of Sightings and Activity:
   • Considering the time the kid on the bike arrived, why were there no sightings of Molly or any suspicious activities?
   • What does this imply about the timing and nature of her abduction?
6. Surveillance and Abductor’s Planning:
   • Is there evidence to suggest that Molly Bish was under surveillance before her abduction?
   • What role could the white car, seen by her mother, have played in the abductor's planning?
   • How does the layout of the area, including the connection between the cemetery and the beach, factor into the abduction scenario?
7. Scenario Analysis for June 26th, 2000:
   • What might have been different if the abduction opportunity had presented itself on June 26th instead of June 27th?
   • What does this suggest about the abductor's decision-making and planning process?

 

[somequestions]

is this closer?

1. Kid on Bike's Route and Timing:
   • What was the specific route taken by the kid on the bike on the day of the abduction?
   • How does this route intersect with the path of the sand truck driver?
   • Could the kid have witnessed anything relevant while on this route?
2. Abductor's Strategy and Ruse:
   • What are common strategies used by abductors in similar cases, especially in secluded areas?
   • How likely is it that the abductor acted spontaneously versus having a premeditated plan?
   • In abduction cases, how often are ruses used, and what forms do they typically take?
3. Lifeguard Station Setup Timeline:
   • How long does it typically take to set up a lifeguard station?
   • What was Molly Bish's usual routine for setting up the station?
   • How does this timeline align with her last known activities and the abduction timeline?
4. Alibis and Potential Involvement:
   • Who were the individuals needing alibis in this case (e.g., sand truck driver, cemetery workers, beach maintenance people)?
   • What alibis were provided, and how do they align with the known timeline of events?
5. Absence of Sightings and Activity:
   • Considering the time the kid on the bike arrived, why were there no sightings of Molly or any suspicious activities?
   • What does this imply about the timing and nature of her abduction?
6. Surveillance and Abductor’s Planning:
   • Is there evidence to suggest that Molly Bish was under surveillance before her abduction?
   • What role could the white car, seen by her mother, have played in the abductor's planning?
   • How does the layout of the area, including the connection between the cemetery and the beach, factor into the abduction scenario?
7. Scenario Analysis for June 26th, 2000:
   • What might have been different if the abduction opportunity had presented itself on June 26th instead of June 27th?
   • What does this suggest about the abductor's decision-making and planning process?

Ok, yes it is closer. Those are the questions I had in mind. What are the answers?

This is why sometimes I find it hard to discuss this case since there are no answers to the questions. I only find this case interesting from the perspective of what the abductor might have done. All you can discuss is what has already been discussed over and over again since there is nothing new.

The reality is though, that someone could already have been waiting in the cemetery for Molly Bish to arrive at her lifeguard post and went down the hill and abducted her when they saw her walk out onto the beach at around 10 am(assuming there was enough time to have her lifeguard stuff set up). Since the back of the cemetery does not look like it has any graves, and since I would have thought the car would have driven over the path twice, once on June 26th for planning and again on June 27th to commit the crime, I do wonder if there were any tire tracks in the grass along the path? It is yet another question that will probably never be answered.

 

[Baddux]

Ok, yes it is closer. Those are the questions I had in mind. What are the answers?

My hypothesis is that by distilling the essential elements needed for understanding in an incremental manner, as demonstrated in the questions above, we can achieve at least a basic comprehension of the case based on the highest level of public information available. This methodical breakdown could provide a clear insight into the case.

 

[Baddux]

Ok, yes it is closer. Those are the questions I had in mind. What are the answers?

I have based my research on the 2003 three-part article series from 48 Hours, focusing exclusively on Molly Bish's case. Drawing solely from this source, I've compiled answers to your queries and included an additional eighth category that outlines and details suspects involved in the case. This account is based solely on the information from that episode and should not be considered comprehensive or up-to-date as of 2023:

Spoiler

Answers Based Only on 2003 48-Hours Episode​

Kid on Bike's Route and Timing:​

- The specific route taken by the kid on the bike on the day of the abduction is not detailed in the provided documents.
- There's no information on how this route intersects with the path of the sand truck driver.
- Whether the kid could have witnessed anything relevant while on this route is not mentioned.

Abductor's Strategy and Ruse:​

- Common strategies used by abductors, especially in secluded areas, are not explicitly outlined. The killer in Molly Bish's case was likely local and knew the area well, suggesting familiarity with the location as a strategy.
- The likelihood of the abductor acting spontaneously versus having a premeditated plan is not discussed. However, the killer was described as experienced and methodical, which might imply premeditation.
- The use of ruses in abduction cases and their typical forms are not detailed in the documents.

Lifeguard Station Setup Timeline:​

- The typical time required to set up a lifeguard station is not mentioned.
- Molly Bish's usual routine for setting up the station is not described.
- There's no information on how her routine aligns with her last known activities and the abduction timeline.

Alibis and Potential Involvement:​

- Specific individuals requiring alibis (e.g., sand truck driver, cemetery workers, beach maintenance people) are not identified.
- The nature of the alibis provided and their alignment with the known timeline of events is not discussed.

Absence of Sightings and Activity:​

- The reason for no sightings of Molly or suspicious activities considering the time the kid on the bike arrived is not explained.
- The implications of this on the timing and nature of her abduction are not elaborated upon.

Surveillance and Abductor’s Planning:​

- Evidence suggesting that Molly Bish was under surveillance before her abduction is not provided.
- The role of the white car, seen by her mother, in the abductor's planning is not detailed.
- The layout of the area, including the connection between the cemetery and the beach, and its factor into the abduction scenario is not described.

Scenario Analysis for June 26th, 2000:​

- What might have been different if the abduction opportunity had presented itself on June 26th instead of June 27th is not discussed.
- The suggestion about the abductor's decision-making and planning process is not provided.

Suspects and Witnesses Names and Involvement:​

- Robert Armes: Became a focus in the investigation, especially in relation to Holly Piiraenin's case. Displayed suspicious behavior and his whereabouts during the abduction were unconfirmed. He failed a lie detector test and was implicated in the Piiraenin murder according to Tim McGuigan. However, there is less evidence linking Armes to Molly Bish's murder.
- Tim McGuigan:A former police officer involved in the investigation, claims to have heard Armes implicating himself in the Piiraenin murder.
- John and Magi Bish: Molly Bish's parents, informed about the discovery of her remains. Advocating for improved handling of missing child cases.
- John Kelly: A criminal profiler, believed the killer was likely local, methodical, and experienced.
- State Police Lt. Peter Higgins: Acknowledged McGuigan's contributions to the investigation.

source(s):
CBS News | Missing Molly | December 5, 2003 15:34:33
CBS News | Part II: The Mystery Man | December 4, 2003 01:21:26
CBS News | Part III: Waiting For Answers | December 3, 2003 21:04:15

 

[Baddux]

This set of questions and answers serves as a foundational framework for exploring the Molly Bish case, as initially presented in the '48 Hours' 2003 article series. These questions are designed to extract key details from this primary source, setting the stage for a deeper and more comprehensive investigation. As we continue to gather information from a wider array of sources spanning over the years, these questions will be expanded, refined, and adapted to incorporate new insights and perspectives. This evolving approach allows for a dynamic examination of the case, ensuring that each new piece of evidence or testimony is thoroughly considered and integrated into our understanding. The aim is to build a multi-faceted, richly detailed narrative of the case, reflecting the complexity and depth of the investigation as it has developed over time. This account is based solely on the information from that episode and should not be considered comprehensive or up-to-date as of 2023.

Spoiler: Current Question List:

1. **Question:** What specific date and time did Molly Bish disappear, and who was the last person to see her?
- **Answer:** Molly Bish disappeared on June 27, 2000. Her mother, Magi Bish, was the last person to see her just before 10 a.m. when she dropped Molly off at Comins Pond for her lifeguard job.

2. **Question:** Upon noticing Molly's absence, what initial theories did the police consider?
- **Answer:** The police initially suspected that Molly might have left her post to be with friends. Later, when it was clear she wasn't with friends, they considered the possibility of drowning.

3. **Question:** Describe the person Magi Bish recalled seeing near the site the day before Molly’s disappearance.
- **Answer:** Magi Bish described the person as a man with dark, salt-and-pepper hair, aged between 45 and 55. This description led to the release of two composite sketches by the police.

4. **Question:** What strategy did the abductor possibly use to approach Molly, as theorized by John Bish?
- **Answer:** John Bish theorized that the abductor might have used the pretext of needing a band-aid to approach Molly, leading to her abduction.

5. **Question:** What significant discovery was made three years after Molly’s disappearance?
- **Answer:** Three years after her disappearance, a piece of Molly’s clothing was found five miles from the pond.

6. **Question:** What characteristics and behavior did criminal profiler John Kelly attribute to the killer?
- **Answer:** John Kelly believed the killer was likely a local, due to his knowledge of the area. He also suggested that the killer was experienced and methodical.

7. **Question:** What connections were drawn between Molly Bish’s case and Holly Piirainen’s case?
- **Answer:** Tim McGuigan and John Kelly noticed similarities between Molly Bish's case and Holly Piirainen's case, suggesting a potential connection.

8. **Question:** What evidence or behaviors linked Robert Armes to the case?
- **Answer:** Robert Armes displayed suspicious behavior following Holly Piirainen's murder, such as purchasing new boots and getting rid of his car. He also failed a lie detector test and had a history of petty offenses and an assault charge.

9. **Question:** What was the status of the investigation and efforts by the Bish family at the time of the report?
- **Answer:** A permanent task force was still investigating Molly Bish's murder, with ongoing collaboration regarding Holly Piiraenin's case. John and Magi Bish were advocating for improved handling of missing child cases by police nationwide.

10. **Question:** Were the remains of Molly Bish ever found, and if so, what was the family's reaction?
- **Answer:** Yes, the remains of Molly Bish were found, including a human bone and other skeletal remains. Her family, particularly Magi Bish, expressed belief that Molly was in heaven and no longer suffering.

 

[Baddux]

In this post, I aim to offer a reflective and considerate overview of the key individuals and elements involved in the Molly Bish case, as depicted in the "2003 48 Hours" episode articles. This account is based solely on the information from that episode and should not be considered comprehensive or up-to-date as of 2023.

Spoiler

The Bish Family​

• John and Magi Bish: Molly's parents, who faced the harrowing reality of their daughter's disappearance and have since become advocates for improved handling of missing child cases. Their journey from receiving the news of the discovery of human remains to intensifying their search for the perpetrator forms a core narrative of this case.

Molly Bish​

• The victim at the center of this case, whose tragic disappearance and the subsequent discovery of her remains have had a profound impact.

Investigative Team and Experts​

• Investigators including John Kelly: Professionals who analyzed the case, suggesting that the perpetrator was likely a local with methodical planning.
• State Police Lt. Peter Higgins: Recognized the contributions of those involved in the investigation.
• District Attorney John Conte: Led the team that explored various theories, including the white car theory.

Persons of Interest​

• Robert Armes: A focus of the investigation, particularly in relation to Holly Piirainen's case, showing suspicious behavior but without definitive evidence linking him to Molly's murder.
• Tim McGuigan: A former police officer deeply involved in the case, whose personal investigation paralleled Molly's disappearance with Holly Piirainen's case.

Others Connected to the Case​

• Sandra Woodworth & Ed Fett: Early witnesses to Molly's absence.
• Ricky Beaudreau: Assisted in discovering crucial evidence.
• Oscar Baillargeon: Interrogated due to his resemblance to a sketch of a potential suspect.

Community Involvement and Theories​

• John and Magi Bish's Advocacy: Their persistent efforts for justice and systemic change.
• Investigative Theories: Including the possibility of a professional abductor and the white car theory.

 

[somequestions]

@Baddux I think you have done a good write up of information, but I know that information. You do not want to go down the same rabbit hole as I did with this case. I have come to the probable conclusion that because there is DNA that whoever committed this crime is probably some random stranger who managed to be waiting for Molly Bish, probably parked in the white car in St. Paul's Cemetery, which is connected to Commins Pond beach.

However, I will admit that if I lived in or close to Warren, MA I would want to use a stopwatch to research the time.

 

[somequestions]

There was one other aspect to theorize about time in Molly Bish's case from Tuesday, June 27th, 2000.

I have already theorized that it takes 5 minutes for Molly Bish and her mother to leave the gas station starting at 9:51am, pick up the police radio, and drive to Commins Pond. That puts the time at 9:56am.

I theorized that Molly Bish leaves her mother's car and walks directly to the beach area to set up her lifeguard equipment. I think this takes 2 minutes. That puts the time at 9:58am.

I theorize that it takes 30 seconds to set up the lifeguard stuff: lawn chair, towel, take off flip flops, water bottle, and open first aid kit. That puts the time at 9:58:30.

The last thing to theorize in terms of time is how long does it take to walk from the lawn chair to the white car waiting on the path in the back of St. Paul's Cemetery? Does it take at least 1 minutes and 30 seconds?

At 10am a kid on a bike showed up to the beach and did not see Molly Bish. The kid knows it was 10 am because their watch beeped.

Commins Pond seems like a quiet place when it is calm and there is no wind. Since it seems like the kid on the bike got to the pond right after the abduction took place, could they hear a car engine start?

I do not know where the kid on the bike was standing when their watch struck 10am, but I wondered if they remembered any other sounds other than their watch beeping at 10am? Maybe you cannot hear a car engine start at the back of St. Paul's Cemetery from the beach area because it is too far away?

 

[babyblujems]

The show with the information about the 14 year old boy who arrived by bike to Commins pond is called, On the Case with Paula Zahn. The episode is called, Gone in 3 minutes (which I think is a good title).

There was something else in the episode that was sort of interesting, but maybe my interpretation is wrong. According to Molly''s sister, Heather, Molly had only been alone at the lifeguard job for about 3 days. Even though she worked as a lifeguard for 8 days, her brother had been training her, probably over the previous 5 days.

There is no information about anyone close to the pond in the episode, whether it be the work supervisor, sand truck driver, or cemetery workers. I can only guess these people close to the pond area were cleared by police through alibis, etc.

No matter who it was that abducted and murdered Molly Bish, I definitely think the surveillance of Molly Bish could only have happened on Monday, June 26th before the abduction was carried out a little before 10 am on Tuesday, June 27th. The reason is the stared down between Molly's mother and the man in the white car on Monday, June 26th. If the abductor already was after Molly Bish and knew about the path in the cemetery, I do not think he would have gone to the parking lot to stare at her mother.

The question is how many people saw a white car in the cemetery area between 10 -11 am on Monday, June 26th? I think an abductor is going to want to make sure there is not a fence between the pond property and the cemetery. I think the abductor is going to do the surveillance for the period of time they plan to do the abduction the next day. I think the abductor is going to want to at least drive through St. Paul's Cemetery to make sure the back of the pond has a driving path that is close to the woods and is not just grass if they cannot see the back of the cemetery. It looks like the land slopes downwards towards the woods in the back of St. Paul's Cemetery where it is thought the car was waiting.

There are so many different scenarios that could make a person familiar with the cemetery area and its connection the pond. Anybody who ever attended a funeral there or worked at the cemetery or biked on the paths behind Commins Pond would know about it. One time I read that marching band staged there for practice leading up to the 4th of July, maybe for 4th of July parade.

At least for myself, I would want to know how long it takes to go from the gas station, get the police radio from the police station, drive to the pond, get out and walk to the beach area where her lifeguard stuff was set up, set up the lifeguard stuff, take off sandals and put water bottle in one, and open the first aid kit.

Hello, townie here. I posted some years ago explaining a little about the scene. We don't have cemetery workers here per say. We used to have volunteers, now it's highway that handles the cemetery. The cemetery is in this weird valley and slopes uphill from the pond and can be very difficult to navigate due to the layout.

It would take less then 5 minutes to get from the gas station to the pond. The drive would take you right past the police department and as long as they didn't stay and talk long (they were well known in town so it is a possiblity) it would be 5 minutes max. I work across from the police station and my other facility is located at the pond, it takes me less than 2 minutes to drive between the two.

As for the path, unless you know the area it's pretty hidden. On the beach side it's off of a path of the main path. So the main path goes towards the beach area, a second path loops the pond and the path from the pond to the cemetery is hidden off that path. On the cemetery side it just looks like some manicured bushes.

 

[somequestions]

Hello, townie here. I posted some years ago explaining a little about the scene. We don't have cemetery workers here per say. We used to have volunteers, now it's highway that handles the cemetery. The cemetery is in this weird valley and slopes uphill from the pond and can be very difficult to navigate due to the layout.

It would take less then 5 minutes to get from the gas station to the pond. The drive would take you right past the police department and as long as they didn't stay and talk long (they were well known in town so it is a possiblity) it would be 5 minutes max. I work across from the police station and my other facility is located at the pond, it takes me less than 2 minutes to drive between the two.

As for the path, unless you know the area it's pretty hidden. On the beach side it's off of a path of the main path. So the main path goes towards the beach area, a second path loops the pond and the path from the pond to the cemetery is hidden off that path. On the cemetery side it just looks like some manicured bushes.

Thanks for the information. I think adding your information about how long it takes to drive from the police station to Commins Pond gives enough time for the abduction to take place before the kid on the bike arrives at 10am. If it only takes 2 minutes to drive to Commins Pond, then the abduction would happen by 9:57am. The kid on the bike arrives at 10am so she was abducted in less than 3 minutes, but a few minutes before the kid on the bike arrived. As for the path from the cemetery, that basically means it could have been anyone who knew about the path.

I did wonder about fingerprints in this case. In the gas station video, Molly Bish is clearly grasping the upper water bottle tightly in her hand. I would assume they got very good fingerprints from Molly Bish on the water bottle. I saw something in the last episode of that old tv show Columbo that I wondered about. A fingerprint examiner is trying to get fingerprints from a keyboard, but not all the keys have fingerprints. It is theorized that if a person were wearing gloves and touched the keyboard repeatedly wearing gloves that could erase the fingerprints. I thought the water bottle might be the only item Molly Bish touched with her fingerprints, even if the rest of the crime scene area was disturbed by other people leaving their fingerprints.

 

[somequestions]

It is sort of sad this case has not been solved. But looking at it from the perspective of an investigator, it is a tough case. It appears this was a planned crime. It makes sense it would be a planned crime since the abductor would need to bring a weapon with them, or if they did not have one, come up with another way to abduct Molly Bish.

I have much speculation about this case. But the only thing I have really seen that seems sort of off to me is the crime scene photo of Molly Bish's stuff at the beach. There is a water bottle in one of Molly Bish's sandals. Why is this significant to me? It signifies to me that she was done wearing her sandals. If the photos are correct, it also appears like there was something left on her beach chair so that would have to be removed before she sat down.

Yet according to what I have read about the case she still needed to put on her whistle. She still needed to remove her outer clothing(although maybe she was just going to lifeguard teach in her clothes and the parents would be in the water with the kids?). She still needed to make the two-way radio call to police to check in and let them know she is on duty at the beach. I thought all these items were still in her bookbag on the bench or below the bench on the beach. I never know what to think about the photos in this case.

Commins Pond beach receives shade from the trees on the hill behind it. The problem is trees drops sticks and this could hurt your feet if you were to step on a stick in the sand and I wondered how many sticks were in the sand between where her beach chair was setup and the where the bookbag was on the bench.

Or maybe Molly Bish did not care about sticks in the sand at all? She removes her sandals, puts the water bottle in the one sandal, and then kneels in the sand to check the first aid kit. Then the abductor approaches while she is checking the first aid kit pretending to need help. This is the main theory anyway, so all this speculation really shows is that you end up right back where you started. I think about the only thing I can correctly theorize is that the water bottle was probably cold because it came from the gas station.

 

[weepingangel]

New DNA testing on clothing in Molly Bish murder case could lead to long-awaited answers

Nearly a quarter of a century after Molly Bish’s murder, the NBC10 Boston Investigators are taking an exclusive look at the evidence that’s been kept in cold storage for decades. The 16-year-old girl disappeared from her lifeguard shift at Comins Pond in Warren, Massachusetts, on June 27, 2000 —...

www.necn.com