MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[kittythehare]

Trimmed by me. Another LE overlook, though I would expect the ME to actually do the sampling. On another item: my recall is that the only sampling done on the clothes JOK was wearing were swabs, and then only a few...and those revealed porcine DNA? And there was no record presented at trial that showed exactly where those swabs were taken?

Does this represent SOP? Why would the garments themselves not go to the DNA Lab? I would think the DNA specialists would know where and how to locate and extract the sampling better than a "ordinary" crime scene type.

The whole thing was bizarre.
I'll never understand it or accept it because all police are not like this.

 

[kittythehare]

Expert witnesses constantly disagree with each other in trials, when they get into an area which is essentially speculation and theory. Expert witnesses for the defense are paid a great deal of money. If you believe the whole justice system is corrupt, why would you believe a retired medical pathogist was both incapable of error and uncorruptible?

JMO

because I have a basic knowledge of anatomy and physiology.
I also respect experts.
I know, for example they will not risk their entire careers and reputations by going over to the dark side for money.

 

[JenaTaoson]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

 

[Cedars]

Are you saying you believe the medical pathologist was corrupt??!!

I don't believe anyone is 'corrupt'. IMO it is naive to believe there are heroes who wear white hats and devils who wear black hats. I believe in shades of grey, especially when we are talking about the justice system, where each side is trying to convince a jury about something that no one was present to witness, except the victim and the alleged perp

I believe humans are fallible beings, and can convince themselves they are speaking truth when it serves their purpose. ie, when they are outraged about the death of a fellow officer, or when they are paid to give testimony about something they did not personally conduct an autopsy on.

JMO

ETA I didn't listen to the defense expert witness. Most trials include defense expert witnesses, including, most recently, Chad Daybell's, who was found guilty none-the-less.

 

[Charlot123]

From that article:
“Above all else, a totalizing drinking culture is what both defined and obscured this unresolved, perhaps irresolvable case. It opens the elevator shaft onto a bottomless enigma. Did Read—who allegedly woke up thinking she’d last seen O’Keefe at a bar—ever piece together any reliable memory shards from that night? Or did her mutating account of events generate itself from a primordial soup of liquor, panic, guilt, and conjecture? Did visitors to Fairview Road miss O’Keefe’s body on the lawn because it wasn’t there, or because they were too drunk to notice? Do any of these people really remember what happened?

Even under ideal circumstances, memories aren’t retrieved, exactly, so much as they are reconstructed. (Like a car crash, you might say.) The blackout drinker, it follows, has no materials to build with. Blackouts occur when alcohol interferes with receptors of the hippocampus that aid in memory consolidation, rendering the drinker incapable of making and storing new memories. She can be an engine of a narrative, but she cannot tell the story. Others may know her (provided they are not also blackout drinking), but she cannot know herself; she is absent from her own consciousness.”

Add to the above the snow, and the egregious incompetence of the ieve we will be left forever in the dark about the truth of what happened that night.

My heart aches for John O’Keefe’s family. To lose two children, or two siblings…and then go through the spectacle and harassment of crazy internet bloggers in this whole ordeal…If I were Paul, I would be angry too. I can see how he can interpret Karen Read’s attitude and demeanor as her enjoying her celebrity, and be infuriated by it. It would just be the final straw because he 100 percent believes she killed her brother, even if many of us don’t or even if we think it’s possible she did, but do not believe it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

It’s all just such a horrible tragedy.

Agree about alcohol 100%. RIP, John O'Keefe.

 

[Odeto BJ]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

The only way I have ever done it on a touchscreen was on a Motorola-Android that had a "hot key" call back, on the home screen...wasn't a butt dial but if the user squeezed a side key while a finger was on the face, the silly thing would dial back the last incoming number. I think that caused a bunch of complaints because it went away about 5-versions back.
You still had to pick up the phone and engage one of the side keys, so it couldn't happen unless the phone was in your hand...

 

[Charlot123]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

Well, Blackberrys were great. The company had an excellent start but lost the market.
Old Blackberrys had a moving lid and knobs. Both 'Droid and iPhone have touchscreens, swipe functions. Android and especially, iPhone are incredibly butt-dialable, purse-dialable, and overall sensitive. Maybe Fold is better, but in general, when you switch Droid or an iPhone to a "newer, better" one, you are, essentially, upgrading your camera.

 

[JenaTaoson]

The only way I have ever done it on a touchscreen was on a Motorola-Android that had a "hot key" call back, on the home screen...wasn't a butt dial but if the user squeezed a side key while a finger was on the face, the silly thing would dial back the last incoming number. I think that caused a bunch of complaints because it went away about 5-versions back.
You still had to pick up the phone and engage one of the side keys, so it couldn't happen unless the phone was in your hand...

I had Iphones for about 7 years and not once did I accidentally call someone, that's why it's confusing to me, at least.

 

[Aquarian]

I had Iphones for about 7 years and not once did I accidentally call someone, that's why it's confusing to me, at least.

I personally haven’t done it, but I have been butt dialed by granddaughter, son n law and my husband. I have no idea.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

I have purse dialed many times but not multiple times on the same day.

 

[JenaTaoson]

I have purse dialed many times but not multiple times on the same day.

And that's one of the things that makes you go, hmm?
ETA rhetorical question, not actual.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

What kind of an accident?
There was only a light falling of snow as they left the pub...
Flashback to his head injury which is what killed him..
How could one accidentally receive a head injury in that particular part of the skull?

I have no idea! Luckily I’m not an ME or LE so it is not my job to figure it out

 

[BrownRice]

I do have to wonder what JOK was really like. Usually when someone passes, all you hear are great things. Outside of adopting his sister's kids, we've heard nothing. Between the crown and his brother, you'd think we would get more of a glimpse into his life and his character.

MOO

Agree. Even in the closing, Lally didn’t really even talk about John. Other than being a cop and raising the kids, we know nothing about him

 

[MyJoey]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

Not me personally but, my husband does it constantly. He carry’s his phone in his pocket.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

Expert witnesses constantly disagree with each other in trials, when they get into an area which is essentially speculation and theory. Expert witnesses for the defense are paid a great deal of money. If you believe the whole justice system is corrupt, why would you believe a retired medical pathogist was both incapable of error and uncorruptible?

JMO

Sure, except in this case the experts didn’t really disagree with each other. Dr. Sheridan, the defense’s medical expert, was more forceful in his opinion that the injuries weren’t caused by a car. Dr. Scordi-Bello, the CW’s ME, conceded it could have been a car, a bat, a dumbbell, or any number of things, and conceded they were not “classic” injuries associated with being struck by a car. It’s not like the ME said it was her opinion he was definitely struck by a car - her testimony had loads of doubt and ambiguity.

I’ll not even mention the ARCCA experts who I’m sure you know were not hired or paid by the defense…

ETA: I’ve just seen your followup post where you mentioned you didn’t listen to any of the defense witnesses. So maybe we do need to mention ARCCA, lmao. Interesting watching, I’d recommend checking it out if you’re interested in having the full view of the case and not one side

 

[jepop]

Thanks - that is how I remember it.

I don't get how his final resting place fits with the state theory - unless he crawled off. Not saying it can't, but surely they need to explain some credible version

IMO

Well, I'm saying it can't fit with state theory so we disagree on that I guess. If the prosecution had an expert witness who was willing to say JO could have crawled from kerb to where he was found they would have had them on the stand.IMO. The actual ME was not even willing to say that, or Lally would have elicited as much from her to support what I guess might amount to a slightly less fantastic theory, jmo. Although once again, minus any bruising and a blood trail from the kerb to the lawn and the fact of the essentially noncontested expert evidence on dog scratches and dog bite, even if someone was willing to testify JO was not rendered unconscious immediately, such a theory would be unreasonable imo and test the bounds of credibility. Jmo

 

[Greenestdays]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

I'm a terribly impatient person and numerous times I've jabbed at the big red end call button on my iphone several times to end a cal and the phone can't keep up and when it switches screens from an active call to the "recent" list, it will dial a random number on that screen. But I wouldn't call that a "butt dial", as it has always happened when I'm stabbing away at the screen, meaning it has required my active involvement.

 

[jepop]

. Also, re: JO's ring camera footage, isn't there an issue with chunks of it missing?

BBM and snipped for focus

Correct. And interestingly enough, Proctor had access to JOs ring camera app via him having immediate access to JOs phone sans warrant, so there's that.Moo but see trial testimony of Proctor.

OTOH all testimony at trial indicated KR didn't access JO's ring cam app from his home. Moo

Ebm for clarity

 

[TTF14]

I have a question, how many of you good people have butt dialed someone with an IPhone or android? I'm literally curious because I haven't in about 18 years since I had a Blackberry.

Butt dialed? Not recently.....can't remember. Several years I'm sure. Calling people accidentally while my phone is in my hand and I'm not paying attention to where my fingers are touching? Yes. 7 times in a row without it ever going to voicemail? Hell no.

Lies. Total lies.

IMO MOO

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

I don’t begrudge the O’Keefes their anger or grief - thank god I have not been in their shoes and I have no idea how I’d feel or react if I was. I think they deserve a lot of grace.

What I cannot understand is why they continue to ride for Proctor and excuse and minimize his conduct. If someone texted those things about Paul’s wife I’m sure he’d have a different reaction…