MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #17

[ShadyLady]

I'd love to ask you about the breeds you care for so competently but I'd be afraid of derailing the thread. Julie Nagle is unlikely to have your skills and experience, she also used to drive the daughters around and that is how the defense got past her denial of having been in the home..

She was running a script and she believed she was doing an excellent job 'defending the Alberts' even though she was testifying in a murder case . She was smug at times...it's an interesting testimony..

I would like outside detectives to bring them all in for questioning at LE headquarters. NOT on zoom and in their homes...one will crack, IMO.

 

[LvsAMystry]

And more filings AJ

https://x.com/besthunter08/status/1811064035116507332?s=46&t=CYzcWMcOJFtHVUA6GR9Snw

 

[ch_13]

Here's the affidavit from Jackson about the fourth juror:

In summary, the jury was confused at the end of the trial because they thought they would get further instructions and not be immediately dismissed. They discussed amongst themselves whether they should inform the judge about the acquittals, but they weren't sure if they were permitted to say anything.

And "every" juror will be in agreement that they found KR not guilty of counts one and three.

 

[kittythehare]

Was she interviewed by the FBI or federal agency like others were?

I very much doubt it and a great opportunity was missed as a result.
Hopefully they see fit to do it now.

 

[adot0902]

I explained before that I was on a jury, and this is just so beyond odd to me. I was an alternate and when the case was over the judges clerk called me, gave me the verdict, asked if I had any questions and explained that I may now speak out about the case to whomever. But it was very clear that if I had ANY questions or concerns I could speak to them and ask questions. Anyone been on a MA jury and is this how it is? I'm so confused.

 

[New Penny]

You realize that blogger guy has made their life impossible and harassed them for months. MOO

Actions have consequences. MOO

 

[keek]

Most definitely, my town would rather spend money elsewhere, even when we can have 7 months of winter and several major storms. Other cities around us do much better. My town I think prefers to buy sculptures for the sculpture gardens we have for 'tourism.' We are a gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park we already get tons of tourism. Anyway I have digressed.

I believe that Lucky is a good witness being how he was through the neighborhood a couple times, and the only thing he noticed was a vehicle where there wasn't one earlier.

Yes, I understand as I have a friend in that area and says same, bad. Originally from MA so very shocked. Lucky was a simple truth teller, and I bet he struggled a bit with not reporting well known ALBERT, with his brother a cop and the other a selectman.

 

[ch_13]

DBM

 

[OldCop]

isn't the filing being reviewed? isn't it possible those charges will be dropped? do you know anything about how these situations are typically adjudicated? are there different rules in MA?

<modsnip: Personalizing is not allowed.>

and... that still doesn't change the fact that 8 of the jury believe KR killed JO with her SUV and at least 8 of them do not believe the conspiracy talk.

This is not an either or situation. You do not have to believe the “conspiracy talk” to believe and understand that JOK was not hit by a vehicle. Physics, kinetics, science, and medicine all prove that JOK was not hit by a vehicle.
The fact is we don’t know, and may never know, how JOK died. But we do know that he did not die from being struck by a motor vehicle, anyone’s motor vehicle.

 

[keek]

Could you imagine those two in a text thread?
“The Asians house” and “leaky balloon” would probably feel tame.

Believe me, I gave him credit for saying Asian. Not everyone, he wouldn't, know their neighbors names, lot of new people move around and into neighborhoods,jobs etc. and never get to know them. Houses far apart, out of the cars and in the houses. I have heard Asian people as being described as 'Chinese, the Chinese people's house.' All grouped as one nationality.. aaaaaaaaaaargh.. SO THAT is why I give him credit..

 

[thebedbug]

This is not an either or situation. You do not have to believe the “conspiracy talk” to believe and understand that JOK was not hit by a vehicle. Physics, kinetics, science, and medicine all prove that JOK was not hit by a vehicle.
The fact is we don’t know, and may never know, how JOK died. But we do know that he did not die from being struck by a motor vehicle, anyone’s motor vehicle.

No. This is not true. You are stating something as fact, which is only the opinion of experts (based on looking at pictures). One might prefer their opinion or believe it to be accurate with respect to what really happened, but it definitely isn't fact that JOK was not hit by KR's SUV.

I will reiterate that 8 of the 12 jurors, apparently, also believed JOK was hit by KR's SUV.

 

[keek]

She came across as very foolish the whole time she was under cross w/defense. She even stifled a laugh when asked if she had been drunk that night. She had to hold her lips together to stop from laughing out loud, as if it was sooooo funny to be drunk. She must have forgotten she was on a witness stand in a murder trial and not in a bar.
MOO.

Mentality of the ones that hang out with those 'kids'. Outsiders to the quality groups. NO social manners she had.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Julie Nagel! Of course she never said a word about the blob on the lawn to the other people in the car at the time, and never mentioned it to a soul until many months later. But then again, she admits she was "wicked drunk".

So you believe Colin's very involved story of injuring the knuckles on his right hand in a slip and fall incident?

I don't . I think these two people are flat out lying. Why did so many prosecution witnesses involved in the drunken party that night lie on the stand? What are they hiding?

But she said it didn't she-

This is another piece that doesn't fit the defense narrative that you have to ignore.

And when the defense implies he injured his knuckles in a fight with JO, but proves that by showing a picture from a month later??? Every 18 year old boy I know would heal in about 3 days.

The Albert's were very wise to want to distance themselves from this right away- some people will always believe the worst of you no matter what the evidence says and you can never get that reputation back. I can see myself saying something like- don't insert yourself into this, just tell them he didn't come into the house because we have no idea what happened.

<modsnip - off topic>

 

[keek]

My point is that every dog walker situation is different. Not every dog walker goes inside the owners home.

She lied, she had to admit that, so done.

 

[OldCop]

No. This is not true. You are stating something as fact, which is only the opinion of experts (based on looking at pictures). One might prefer their opinion or believe it to be accurate with respect to what really happened, but it definitely isn't fact that JOK was not hit by KR's SUV.

I will reiterate that 8 of the 12 jurors, apparently, also believed JOK was hit by KR's SUV.

What’s not true?

 

[Seattle1]

After the final vote of the jury, the foreperson should check the appropriate boxes as to each charge, then sign and date the verdict slips, and notify the court officer that you have reached a unanimous verdict.

^^rsbm

Thank you, @ch_13 for the link.

IMO, the abrupt instructions by the Court completely failed to provide even a hint that "final vote" was NOT all inclusive, and/or that pursuant to MA Criminal Procedure Rule 27, the Court consented to the Jurors delivering any unanimous verdict agreed upon (given the multiple offenses KR was charged with), and where any verdict agreed upon could be received and recorded, and the Jurors would resume deliberations on any remaining charges. The Judge could then declare a mistrial with respect to any charge without a verdict....

Knowing the Rules for Criminal Procedure is hardly the responsibility of the Jurors!

(b) Several offenses or defendants​

If there are two or more offenses or defendants tried together, the jury may with the consent of the judge at any time during its deliberations return or be required by the judge to return a verdict or verdicts with respect to the defendants or charges as to which a verdict has been reached; and thereafter the jury may in the discretion of the judge resume deliberation. The judge may declare a mistrial as to any charges upon which the jury cannot agree upon a verdict; provided, however, that the judge may first require the jury to return verdicts on those charges upon which the jury can agree and direct that such verdicts be received and recorded.

 

[waldojabba]

This is not an either or situation. You do not have to believe the “conspiracy talk” to believe and understand that JOK was not hit by a vehicle. Physics, kinetics, science, and medicine all prove that JOK was not hit by a vehicle.
The fact is we don’t know, and may never know, how JOK died. But we do know that he did not die from being struck by a motor vehicle, anyone’s motor vehicle.

Unfortunately @OldCop there are people very wary of science. I know that sounds cray cray but it’s reality imo.
Like the flat earth people. Decide what they want to be real and dismiss anything that does not fit that viewpoint.

Frustrating but just difference of processing information perhaps.
Imo

 

[thebedbug]

What’s not true?

"...and understand that JOK was not hit by a vehicle. Physics, kinetics, science, and medicine all prove that JOK was not hit by a vehicle."

"...we do know that he did not die from being struck by a motor vehicle, anyone’s motor vehicle."

Those are not facts, those are opinions. This is not settled science. This was essentially the findings of one team of experts... who looked at pictures.

One can certainly choose to believe those findings and disregard others... but it isn't as you are presenting and it's continually worth noting that 8 of 12 jurors also did not believe those conclusions. 8 of 12 jurors believe KR killed JO with her SUV. Presumably, they weighed the totality of all of the evidence and testimony.

 

[ch_13]

snipped.

I will reiterate that 8 of the 12 jurors, apparently, also believed JOK was hit by KR's SUV.

Only two-thirds of the jury is not great. In fact, I would say it's very bad. If the prosecution doesn't have additional evidence that they can bring forth then they shouldn't bother to retry KR because they will lose again.

On a personal note, I'll say that for me, the ARCCA witnesses were dispositive. Before that, I didn't believe that the commonwealth had proven their case. However, after their testimony, I no longer thought JO was hit by a car. But I knew something the jury didn't: I knew these witnesses were hired by the FBI and truly were independent. They didn't go into the case with a preset agenda like most defense experts do.

Had I been on that jury, I wouldn't have known that. Maybe I would have given their testimony less weight, thinking that the defense was shading the truth about their independence. Maybe they were hired by KR's insurance company, or some similar entity, to avoid liability.

If/when the jury talks, it will be truly interesting to hear what they thought of the various expert witnesses and how that affected their deliberations.

edit - In a retrial, it's quite possible that the next jury will know that the ARCCA experts were independently hired by the Feds. That will be a difficult hurdle for the prosecution to overcome.

 

[iamshadow21]

"...and understand that JOK was not hit by a vehicle. Physics, kinetics, science, and medicine all prove that JOK was not hit by a vehicle."

"...we do know that he did not die from being struck by a motor vehicle, anyone’s motor vehicle."

Those are not facts, those are opinions. This is not settled science. This was essentially the findings of one team of experts... who looked at pictures.

One can certainly choose to believe those findings and disregard others... but it isn't as you are presenting and it's continually worth noting that 8 of 12 jurors also did not believe those conclusions. 8 of 12 jurors believe KR killed JO with her SUV. Presumably, they weighed the totality of all of the evidence and testimony.

With very good reason, eight of twelve isn't enough for a conviction. That's a firm mistrial. We cannot look at eight of twelve as anything but the failure of a group of people aware of the weight of their role to reach a solid judgement based on the testimony and evidence presented.

MOO