MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

[darring21]

Listen, I have absolutely zero problems believing KR hit and killed him with her car, maliciously or not, this is completely believable. What I don’t understand in these scenarios are the lies by everyone else or the conflicting testimony by outsiders as in, the texts saying tell them he wasn’t in the house (if he wasn’t in the house why even have to text the group), the doctored text messages, only one person seeing a body (maybe, she said a black blob), JMc claiming she searched on google after 4am when the FBI claims it was shortly after 2am which completely changes JMc’s testimony, CM lying about his knuckles, the issues with the tail light, no one knowing anything about the dog that night then they get rid of the dog, the snow plow driver claiming he didn’t see any body, the injuries on JO that are clearly not caused by a car.

Overall the flippant attitudes by everyone involved makes no sense in the context of KR just hitting and killing JO, there’s no point acting like this, only scenarios I could see to act like this with them all being innocent is, they’re trying to cover up that they were all driving drunk (let’s be honest they probably did/do that all the time unfortunately), they think they run the town with their clout and are annoyed even having to be involved in the trial, or maybe they’re all just jerks

All just my opinions and speculation, this trial has been bizarre and I’m sure it’ll get more bizarre as it goes on

I agree with most of this. The only problem I have with KR hitting him is the CW allegation that it was at 24 mph in reverse. It is very hard to drive faster than around 10 mph in reverse and it takes some distance to get up to 20. Plus, the federal experts are going to testify that his wounds are not consistent with auto strike. All IMO. What is up with all the shady activities? Spot on.

 

[Wishbone]

the feds investigation stated he could NOT have been hit by a vehicle to get the injuries he had

agree
She is accused of running down John O’Keefe in reverse with her Lexus SUV in Canton but an accident reconstructionist hired by the FBI found O’Keefe’s injuries did not appear to be from a car strike.
“The damage on the car was inconsistent with having made contact with John O’Keefe’s body. In other words, the car didn’t hit him, and he wasn’t hit by the car. Period. Full stop,” Read’s attorney Alan Jackson said.

Federal probe findings revealed in court as Karen Read’s defense team pushes to dismiss murder case

Karen Read is accused of running down John O’Keefe in reverse with her Lexus SUV in Canton but an accident reconstructionist hired by the FBI found O’Keefe’s injuries did not appear to be from a car strike.

www.boston25news.com

 

[ch_13]

How would being 'tapped' account for the arm lacerations?

@iusedtofloat was asking about a theory I posted for discussion a few days ago. In my theory I suggested that the arm wounds could come from a stray dog or other animal who happened upon John while he was lying there overnight.

MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

Ok, here’s a theory: What if Karen Read did hit him? But not by backing into him at high-speed as the commonwealth alleges. Instead she inadvertently clips him as she pulls out of her parking spot. It’s just a tap and Karen never even notices. John’s a little unsteady on his feet, the road...

www.websleuths.com

I'm no doctor or animal expert so I don't know if it could have happened that way. But in all the chatter I haven't heard anyone suggest it as a possibility, so I thought it was an interesting topic for discussion.

Edit - Although in my post I say that Karen tapped him, another possibility would be that he just slipped of his own accord and banged his head into the fire hydrant that's right next to where his body was found. I wonder if it was ever checked for blood or DNA.

 

[darring21]

that's up to what you decide to take away from this video..I have my own thoughts on it and it will most likely agree with what the defense puts forth if and when they finally get to present their evidence and case for KR.

I think the defense is going to connect a lot of dots when they start putting their case on. Experts on JO's wounds, experts on the electronics, and a summary of how it connects. Some of the defense questions seem to be setting up later testimony... ie. asking CA if he has ever been in a fight, whether he has a beef with JO, etc. I'm guessing there may be testimony to refute this.

What we haven't seen from the CW that could make a difference... KR's text messages, car electronics, others?

 

[jepop]

I missed this earlier or forgot it or wasn't keeping track of time. Short video from newsnation worth the watch

VIDEO FROM DOORBELL CAM WAS TAKEN at 5:03 AM shows KR car tail light intact. I don't know what time KR called JM that morning, anyone know?

Thank you, I had heard something about this footage but have never followed this case in the media. I'll have a squiz shortly! All my thoughts have come from watching the trial and studying the WS threads.

According to JMc's April 2022 statement as posted just above by @arielilane

5:46 Jenn KR and Kerry arrive at JOK house

JMc testified yesterday, after arival at JO's all three stood at back of lexus looking at tail light and she noticed damage despite the snow. After this they went inside JO's house.

Testimony yesterday was phone call from JO niece and KR to JMc at 4.53am and then KR turned up at JMc's not long after, and then back to JO's with Kerry following. Can't recall all the times exactly and not going to rewatch atm

But this doorbell cam footage sounds like relates to when KR was going to JMc's after the 4.53 phone call. Obviously implications if it shows the tail light intact at 5.03am. I'll watch it. If this is accurate won't the defence be able to have it admitted to evidence? It would be somewhat significant to put it mildy. Moo

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

JMcC statement to MSP date April 6, 2022 - moo due to no link (nothing was noted about the google search)


While at 34 Fairview Rd, Jenn observed a large black SUV on the street outside of the and went to the front door.
The SUV did not pull into the driveway but parked on the street by the entrance of the driveway.

At 12:31 am, Jenn texted JOK, “Hello, Pull up behind me”

Jenn texted JOK again at 12:40 am, "Hello, where are you” and then again at 12:45 am, “Hello, where are you."

Jenn observed the SUV drive away and assumed KR and JOK went home.

Jenn confirmed that JOK did not respond to any of her text messages.

Jenn stated she first observed the vehicle parked on the street by the driveway facing in the direction toward Chapman St.
Jenn then observed the vehicle travel along the road toward the left side of the property in the area of where JOK was discovered in the morning.
Jenn and her husband left the residence at approximately 1:30 am and went home.


At approximately 4:53 am on 1/29/2022 Jenn received a call from JOK niece, KR was on the phone, hysterical and looking for JOK. KR told Jenn that she went home alone last night and last saw JOK at the Waterfall Bar. Jenn had to correct Karen, and told her they left the Waterfall together and went to 34 Fairview Rd.

Jenn told KR to come to her house and they would look for JOK together.

KR arrived at Jenn’s house in SUV. Jenn stated she drove KR vehicle back to JOK house where KR met them. While driving back to JOK house, KR stated to Jenn , “Could I have hit him.” “Did I hit him.”

KR also told Jenn about a broken tail light on her SUV. Once at JOK house all three looked at the broken tail light. Jenn stated she observed a broken/cracked tight tail light to KR SUV.


Jenn and KR got into Kerry’s vehicle (Jenn in front seat/KR in the back seat) to go look for JOK. They traveled to 34 Fairview Rd. The weather at this time snowing heavily, Jenn stated.

They traveled down Chapman Street and took a right turn onto Fairview Rd. Immediately passing the group of trees KR stated "I see him."

Jenn stated with the heavy snow her and Kerry could not see JOK, and did not know what KR was talking about. The three exited the vehicle.



Kerry began wiping snow off JOK.
Jenn call 911 and KR laid on top of JOK, and stated, “Oh my god did I hit him.”
JOK discovered on the left side of the property, the area where KR SUV was last seen earlier that night with approximately
six inches of snow covering him.
KR began CPR, when she discovered JOK blood on her face, stated, “Oh my god, do I have my period.”

Using cell phone app called Life360 Jenn provided the following:
5:39 KR arrived at the McC residence
5:46 Jenn KR and Kerry arrive at JOK house
5:53 the three leave JOK house
6:04 discovered JOK outside of 34 Fairview Rd.

The oddest thing in that thread above IMO is the following:

SFF….. “Jenn had to correct Karen, and told her they left the Waterfall together and went to 34 Fairview Rd.”

Sure have some questions in my mind about JMcC and the happenings in and around their home that fateful evening.

And isn’t JMcC the same individual that has given statements on the record as to what Google searches that she made at the request of KR? Sure is quite a helpful individual or so it seems IMO?

And IIUC that residence was then owned by a MA police officer? Wow…… MOO

 

[themonk]

Can one really take anything Jennifer McCabe has said at face value?

 

[Telltale]

How would being 'tapped' account for the arm lacerations?

Honestly the night they had he probably could have stuck them through a thorn bush and not even noticed. Doesn't look like any dog bite I've seen, and I've seen a few.

The issue I have with the FBI 'these injuries are impossible from a car' angle is no they ain't. It he was standing upright sure. But why assuming a blackout drunk man on ice and snow in the dark was standing? If he got really unlucky and slipped over at the wrong moment he could have been on his hands and knees and basically headbutted a car being backed up by an equally blackout drunk person. It would be the equivalent of being hit over the head with a bat and she could have driven off assuming she'd missed him him walking in, while the party people would assume he'd gone home.
He'd have little more than a head wound and the cold would do the rest.

 

[Wishbone]

Thank you, I had heard something about this footage but have never followed this case in the media. I'll have a squiz shortly! All my thoughts have come from watching the trial and studying the WS threads.

According to JMc's April 2022 statement as posted just above by @arielilane

5:46 Jenn KR and Kerry arrive at JOK house

JMc testified yesterday, after arival at JO's all three stood at back of lexus looking at tail light and she noticed damage despite the snow. After this they went inside JO's house.

Testimony yesterday was phone call from JO niece and KR to JMc at 4.53am and then KR turned up at JMc's not long after, and then back to JO's with Kerry following. Can't recall all the times exactly and not going to rewatch atm

But this doorbell cam footage sounds like relates to when KR was going to JMc's after the 4.53 phone call. Obviously implications if it shows the tail light intact at 5.03am. I'll watch it. If this is accurate won't the defence be able to have it admitted to evidence? It would be somewhat significant to put it mildy. Moo

Thanks for clearing up the time for me. It makes it all fit rather well to support the video. Looking forward to hearing what the defense brings to light.

 

[themonk]

Honestly the night they had he probably could have stuck them through a thorn bush and not even noticed. Doesn't look like any dog bite I've seen, and I've seen a few.

The issue I have with the FBI 'these injuries are impossible from a car' angle is no they ain't. It he was standing upright sure. But why assuming a blackout drunk man on ice and snow in the dark was standing? If he got really unlucky and slipped over at the wrong moment he could have been on his hands and knees and basically headbutted a car being backed up by an equally blackout drunk person. It would be the equivalent of being hit over the head with a bat and she could have driven off assuming she'd missed him him walking in, the party people assuming he'd gone home. The cold would do the rest

It would have been easy for the experts to say 'car impact cannot be ruled in or out' and yet they did not.

Pretty sure they don't have a dog in this fight, so to speak.

 

[keek]

Can one really take anything Jennifer McCabe has said at face value?

I bet JO had confided in KR some thoughts he had about shady doings perhaps, heard or told by others he knew in Canton or surrounding towns, about the Alberts. I wish he just decided to not go, but I'm thinking he wanted to kind of get a look see of them in the home, maybe touch on some 'rumors' to them. He had a big clue and these were not 'his people', I mean Alberts. PLus he was buzzed. I do mean Colin and uncle/father. Higgins is involved on some level. WHAT were they protecting if not also who. THAT'S what also needs to be uncovered I'd hope with the investigation into the dept and Proctor.

I think KR did not want to also be in the house party group like that with Higgins either and John at the same time. That night earlier, Higgins texted her, 'hhhmmm, tonight?'

 

[Wishbone]

The oddest thing in that thread above IMO is the following:

SFF….. “Jenn had to correct Karen, and told her they left the Waterfall together and went to 34 Fairview Rd.”

Sure have some questions in my mind about JMcC and the happenings in and around their home that fateful evening.

And isn’t JMcC the same individual that has given statements on the record as to what Google searches that she made at the request of KR? Sure is quite a helpful individual or so it seems IMO?

And IIUC that residence was then owned by a MA police officer? Wow…… MOO

when JM first got the early morning call from KR she didn't even remember JO and KR going to BA house

 

[Wishbone]

Honestly the night they had he probably could have stuck them through a thorn bush and not even noticed. Doesn't look like any dog bite I've seen, and I've seen a few.

The issue I have with the FBI 'these injuries are impossible from a car' angle is no they ain't. It he was standing upright sure. But why assuming a blackout drunk man on ice and snow in the dark was standing? If he got really unlucky and slipped over at the wrong moment he could have been on his hands and knees and basically headbutted a car being backed up by an equally blackout drunk person. It would be the equivalent of being hit over the head with a bat and she could have driven off assuming she'd missed him him walking in, while the party people would assume he'd gone home.
He'd have little more than a head wound and the cold would do the rest.

If wishes were fishes we would have a great fry.....where is proved he was in a blackout?

 

[shotgun09]

I wish we could know when exactly the defense team and their investigators started WTAF-ing? Was it when they finally got the police reports ( that weren't really there) ? Was their HINK on the Albert family instant? Or was it the shoddy police work.
I know that the dog questions came in later, but what was their initial focus? Before adding Action Jackson to the team.?

I ask this because in light of the testimony given yesterday, and the text messages proving the Albert's and McCabes were group chatting ALREADY on Feb1st. And they were discussing things in a defensive posture. (suspicious to me) Were they ( Alberts) already being questioned by KR's defense team at that specific time?
Because surely the defense team hadn't received any discovery by that date.

Was it Channel 4 that started raising questions regarding the Alberts before the defense team?

Inquiring minds and all that...

 

[Charlot123]

I am sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing

Thank you!

One thing bothered me in the autopsy. A bigger trauma and many small bone fractures around - what does it remind one of? I immediately thought, falling from the balcony or a roof, head-first.

But there are three components in these traumas. Impact-collision with the ground - the body itself

Regarding the body. JO looked healthy. But could there be undiagnosed condition making his bones more brittle? Paget disease I ruled out, but anything leading to osteopenia or osteoporosis? I guess everyone in the police does annual checkups, but was his calcium ever high (if it happens, they usually “monitor”)? Did he ever have MRI?

At first I thought, maybe JO had an aneurysm that ruptured, but it would have been reflected in a postmortem. But when we speak about the mechanism of death - we all might have our weak points.

 

[Telltale]

If wishes were fishes we would have a great fry.....where is proved he was in a blackout?

Their night is mostly on CCTV. They were drinking on camera and there are counts. She drank some stupid amount and he was keeping up. Plus a tone of witnesses to the state of them, they were not even close to sober.

The wounds on his arm didn't need immediate medical attention anyway. He wouldn't have had to be that buzzed to leave it for later. Plus I am pretty sure they got swabbed and had no dog DNA. The dog angel was always a weak storyline in any case. It's just there to throw more chaff.

 

[DeDee]

Karen was supposedly back at John's house that night, his ring camera could prove she was or was not, so she may have just went to sleep on a couch in the house as she DID leave him there and may of wanted to be woken as soon as he came in. K said herself she was so drunk per I think J Mc testimony. The blood/alc showed she was. Her mind was a hysterical and frantic wreck for her own reasons to herself, alcohol and I believe the MS and that we've heard it was medically documented, a brain tumor. I don't know how someone with all the alcohol and brain tumor/MS could even start to think and behave in a rational way. Incredibly terrible combination that night. 'I saw the Beatty photo post while perusing sites and it was on Turtleboys, along with other photo's of people involved.

Oh, I see. So, it's likely many people are highly influenced by TB and his repulsive journalism tactics. imo I do not read his work but know his rep. While I relish the truth, some people enjoy being swept up into dramatic conspiracies. Karen loved being made into a star on the courthouse steps, even if it meant trampling on John's memory. The mob campaign has backfired. Didn't AJ know the glory would end or did he hope it'd last at least until verdict?

Among other charges, TB has domestic abuse charges pending. In light of the recent release of PD's cctv, people are outraged when men beat their women, as, rightfully, society should be intolerant. He can blog from prison, imo.

IMO, Karen viscerally felt the worm turn this week. Some jurors wept along with AMc, then glared at the defense table. Karen saw it coming when the texts between John and Jen were revealed over strong protestations to the Judge. Their grand scheme to make Karen the victim has failed. AJ may rue the day he enjoyed TBs attention to his High Profile case. He's accustomed to HP cases like KS. AJ prosecuted Phil Spector in 2007 so he learned how to counter the prosecution with finesse. His brilliant closing in that case.

I heard the brain tumor is actually a series of headaches. Migraines will make one feel like their brain has a tumor on fire between their ears. She can order tylenol from the prison pharm. JMO

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

This is the first I have heard of her having a brain tumor. As for the MS, there are different kinds. Relapsing/remitting and progressive. I have the former type and it does not impact my quality of life very much. Everyone is different and MS affects people differently. I think the MS isn't a factor in this at all. KR drinking enough alcohol for a high BAC is the problem. Some people who are more seasoned than others can drink a lot and not show the effects. Happens every day.

I don’t disbelieve that she may have a brain tumor. <modsnip>

People may look healthy and attractive and yet have serious health problems. JMc also has MS, as we know. (MS is more prevalent in Northern latitudes, hence, vitamin D for those who live in Canada and Northern part of US never hurt, MOO.)

 

[Wishbone]

Oh, I see. So, it's likely many people are highly influenced by TB and his repulsive journalism tactics. imo I do not read his work but know his rep. While I relish the truth, some people enjoy being swept up into dramatic conspiracies. Karen loved being made into a star on the courthouse steps, even if it meant trampling on John's memory. The mob campaign has backfired. Didn't AJ know the glory would end or did he hope it'd last at least until verdict?

Among other charges, TB has domestic abuse charges pending. In light of the recent release of PD's cctv, people are outraged when men beat their women, as, rightfully, society should be intolerant. He can blog from prison, imo.

IMO, Karen viscerally felt the worm turn this week. Some jurors wept along with AMc, then glared at the defense table. Karen saw it coming when the texts between John and Jen were revealed over strong protestations to the Judge. Their grand scheme to make Karen the victim has failed. AJ may rue the day he enjoyed TBs attention to his High Profile case. He's accustomed to HP cases like KS. AJ prosecuted Phil Spector in 2007 so he learned how to counter the prosecution with finesse. His brilliant closing in that case.

I heard the brain tumor is actually a series of headaches. Migraines will make one feel like their brain has a tumor on fire between their ears. She can order tylenol from the prison pharm. JMO

MOO

Their grand scheme to make Karen the victim has failed.

WHOA how has it failed if the defense hasn't even started their case yet?

 

[DeDee]

Honestly the night they had he probably could have stuck them through a thorn bush and not even noticed. Doesn't look like any dog bite I've seen, and I've seen a few.

The issue I have with the FBI 'these injuries are impossible from a car' angle is no they ain't. It he was standing upright sure. But why assuming a blackout drunk man on ice and snow in the dark was standing? If he got really unlucky and slipped over at the wrong moment he could have been on his hands and knees and basically headbutted a car being backed up by an equally blackout drunk person. It would be the equivalent of being hit over the head with a bat and she could have driven off assuming she'd missed him him walking in, while the party people would assume he'd gone home.
He'd have little more than a head wound and the cold would do the rest.

She hit him then left the scene so he could die in the fg freezing cold blizzard. John's life may have been saved without that callous behavior but oh, how sweet to raise her shirt in a failed attempt to warm his body.

Telltale, I'd not thought of the trees, hedge, bushes near his body possibly causing the arm injuries. I have no doubt this man was propelled into the air while she watched in her rear view mirror.

John exited that dark SUV at the roadside. He may have been facing the house with intentions of entering the home with the other guests. He didn't hear her coming because she didn't gun the engine. Instead she drove forward enough so that she had to reverse only 60 feet to reach his location.

Her SUV goes from 0 to 60 in 6 or 7 seconds. It traveled 60' at 24mph. That distance only took two (2) seconds to impact with John. And people wonder why no one in the 34 FV house saw it happen. Pfft


http://Is he dead?’: Jurors in Karen Read murder trial: data from Read’s SUV drove 60 feet in reverse at 24 miles per hour.

JMO MHOO