MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

[arielilane]

Anyone know if LE determined if the broken cocktail style glass found near JOK came from the bar or the Albert home? TIA

 

[arielilane]

It’s been on my mind that BA (his testimony from the other day) claims once he heard all the commotion going on in the front yard of his home, stayed inside, never bothered to help with the situation - nor offer his assistance - ask what happened - is it because he already knew? Did he check on his own kids? moo

 

[ch_13]

Can anyone ever recall a murder trial where the defendant was less of a focus than Karen Read has been in this one?

Her name was hardly even mentioned today.

 

[ch_13]

Anyone know if LE determined if the broken cocktail style glass found near JOK came from the bar or the Albert home? TIA

I remember when questioning one of the Canton police officers, the defense asked if they tried to match the glass to one in the Albert's residence and the answer was no.

Maybe the MSP looked into it?

 

[themonk]

ok sorry if asked and answered...

looking at the CW's pre=trial timeline I am trying to understand this part:

'KR & Roberts arrive at JMc’s home. KR is described as being “hysterical.” JMc drives Karen back to JO’s house in Karen’s Lexus; K. Roberts follows in her own car'

then 'the 3 get in K. Roberts car' and go looking for JO

why drop off KR's car? why not just all get in either JMc's car or KRob's car and start looking immediately?

What purpose does it serve? Or who?

 

[Wishbone]

It’s been on my mind that BA (his testimony from the other day) claims once he heard all the commotion going on in the front yard of his home, stayed inside, never bothered to help with the situation - nor offer his assistance - ask what happened - is it because he already knew? Did he check on his own kids? moo

If I remember correctly his sister-in-law, Chris's wife, burst into his bedroom and told him what had happened. She was there supposedly to deliver the traditional birthday donuts to BA jr. JO's body had already been removed and BA did not want to interfere with an investigation so he stayed inside.

 

[keek]

If I remember correctly his sister-in-law JM burst into his bedroom and told him what had happened. She was there supposedly to deliver the traditional birthday donuts to BA jr. JO's body had already been removed and BA did not want to interfere with an investigation so he stayed inside.

While reading the up and 'about' early articles and info on here, after their LATE night and big drinking fest, I have the brutal hangover that they don't seem to. Lot of fast planning/thinking had to have happened.

 

[Snoods]

If the Defense wants to say the Albert's are good for John's death, then why does Karen confess? Many of Karen's confessions heard were then testified to it in court. She panicked.

How did she know precisely where John's body was under the snow by the flagpole when her two companions were blind to it without her knowing where he landed? She and John were at the curb of 34 Fairview for about 5 minutes. Arguing is the most likely reason. She pulled her vehicle down closer to the flagpole area. Maybe that's when he exited the SUV.

It's possible John thought she was going to come inside, but instead she zoomed forward, then sped in reverse that knocked him into the air and his head hit the concrete birdbath or whatnot in order to gash the back of his skull.

A document claims she called John and left a voicemail just following the hit and run. She hit him because she hated him.
Karen screamed at John that she hated him. @ 2:48

View attachment 503444
moo

This to me makes her sound even more innocent. Like someone else said, it makes her look bad, and it’s not the kind of thing you want others to hear. If she really HAD hit him we’d be hearing multiple simpering messages like “Where are you honey, call me, I love you!”

You know the type, we hear them countless times from men who kill their wives or SO and then love bomb their phone with sweet messages.
When she left the “hate you” message, she did not know anything had happened to him. IMO.

 

[Name_Withheld]

snowplow driver came by much later and saw nothing. He also does not know or associate with any of the friends and family of the alberts. My money is on what he saw.

All but one witness so far, unless I’ve missed something, corroborate not seeing anything/anyone on the lawn. The prosecution, in my opinion, needs to have a “bombshell” in their case. They have yet to present any real evidence in their case. So far it’s all circumstantial or heresy. I’m neither here nor there yet…just my observation.

 

[shotgun09]

It’s been on my mind that BA (his testimony from the other day) claims once he heard all the commotion going on in the front yard of his home, stayed inside, never bothered to help with the situation - nor offer his assistance - ask what happened - is it because he already knew? Did he check on his own kids? moo

Nope. First call BA made was to his good buddy Higgins.

( We need a Red Alert Button here! )

 

[Wishbone]

Nope. First call BA made was to his good buddy Higgins.

( We need a Red Alert Button here! )

And after that, BA went to jr's room and they both went to the kitchen to eat donuts and drink hot chocolate with whipped cream and sprinkles on top........

 

[Name_Withheld]

Aren't we here for the actual victim in this case... John O'Keefe? Prosecution witnesses are hostile (and I'll agree sometimes unnecessarily so) to the defense attorney because he's implying they are all murderers!


Why is this so hard to understand?

I think we all are. And equally as heartbroken for his family. The fact is that the prosecution has yet to provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that KR knowingly and willingly murdered JO. The investigation is full of flaws and the testimony thus far is from witnesses who were, presumably, intoxicated to some degree on the night in question. With some witnesses being interviewed months if not a year after the incident.

John O’Keefe’s family deserves to know what happened to him. On the other hand the prosecution needs to prove that Karen Read was the assailant.

 

[arielilane]

I am probably over-thinking about JN's testimony today, however, court document show a little differently. But, is her testimony really that different?
It's my opinion because no court doc link.


Claims KR black SUV gone when she (JN) left 1:30/2 am with SR and the McCabe's
JN thought she saw something in the yard.
Sara asked what Julie?
JN: a dark object in the white snow by the flag pole.
The doc goes on ... She had been to the residence numerous times and this dark object stood out to her as
something out of the ordinary but was not sure what it was as they drove by it.

moo

 

[arielilane]

Sorry if this was mentioned by why did the judge end the day before Prosecution got to cross that last witness? Prosecution redirects last, like, five minutes lol. Was this giving the state more time to prepare? The timing is so weird.

There is usually one planned 1/2 a day each week.

@SueNBCBoston

Court is done for the day.It’s a pre-scheduled 1/2 day.


1:02 PM · May 14, 2024

 

[ch_13]

I am probably over-thinking about JN's testimony today, however, court document show a little differently. But, is her testimony really that different?
It's my opinion because no court doc link.


Claims KR black SUV gone when she (JN) left 1:30/2 am with SR and the McCabe's
JN thought she saw something in the yard.
Sara asked what Julie?
JN: a dark object in the white snow by the flag pole.
The doc goes on ... She had been to the residence numerous times and this dark object stood out to her as
something out of the ordinary but was not sure what it was as they drove by it.

moo

I think the new bit is that the dark blob was 5-6 feet in length. Also, the first time she told anyone about the blob was eight months after JO's death.

 

[caisti]

Witness saw "a black blob" while leaving home​

Nagel was the next witness called after Levinson stepped down. She said at one point she saw a black SUV outside the home, something that Brian Albert Jr. also testified Monday that he saw.


Karen Read was driving a black Lexus SUV at the time O'Keefe died.

"Looking out the window I noticed the SUV in front of the mailbox. Then it pulled up a little in front of the yard. Then it pulled up a little in front of the flagpole," Nagel testified, adding that she never saw anyone get out of the SUV.

Nagel said she noticed something on the ground near the flagpole in the front yard of the house while the group drove away. That is the area where O'Keefe's body was found.

"I noticed something out of the ordinary … like a black blob on the ground," Nagel testified. She said that she was intoxicated, and it was too quick to determine what exactly she had seen. She said what she saw was "five or six feet long."

On cross-examination, Nagel says the first time she told anyone this observation in an official capacity was in an interview with Massachusetts State Police Trooper Michael Proctor in October 2022.

"You've never mentioned that this black object was five or six feet long until the last hour or so when Mr. Lally questioned you about it, correct?" Yannetti asked. Nagel answered yes.

Prosecutors have previously accused Proctor of being compromised because of personal ties in the case. Proctor is currently under internal investigation by state police after they said they are looking into "a potential violation of department policy." Proctor denied any wrongdoing and remains on full duty during the investigation.


"You did not think that you saw a person that was in trouble, correct?" Yannetti asked. Nagel said she did not.

"You did not see a body on that lawn did you?" Yannetti later asked. "I don't know what I saw, but I saw an object," Nagel responded.

Testimony concluded for the day Tuesday and will resume with Nagel on the stand Wednesday morning.

Read's attorneys also said they expect a DNA expert to testify before some more witnesses from 34 Fairview on Wednesday.

Karen Read murder trial witness says she saw "black blob" on Brian Albert's Canton lawn

Did the defense ever get tissue samples back from John’s body?

 

[Bodhi]

If I remember correctly his sister-in-law, Chris's wife, burst into his bedroom and told him what had happened. She was there supposedly to deliver the traditional birthday donuts to BA jr. JO's body had already been removed and BA did not want to interfere with an investigation so he stayed inside.

I agree that's why Brian did not go outside, Wishbone. But a few details in our answer are wrong. There are so many people to keep track of!

It was Brian's sister-in-law on the other side, his wife's sister Jennifer McCabe, who woke Brian and Nicole up by coming into their bedroom to tell them police wanted to speak to them. Jennifer McCabe drove Karen Read around to search; she did not bring doughnuts. Brian, Nicole, and Jen went downstairs to talk to the police officers. Brian knocked on Jr.'s door on his way downstairs.

John O'Keefe had already been transported to the hospital before McCabe woke up the Alberts. I'm not sure any fire personnel where still there, from what I recall from various first responders testifying. I don't think Karen Read and the other friend were still outside then either.

Much later in the morning, around 8:30 I think, Julie Albert (Brian's brother Chris's wife) stopped by the driveway to put half a dozen doughnuts in her nephew's car. Julie was not aware anything had happened. She wasn't planning to go in to the house, just drop off the card and present, and get to whatever she was going to do next.

Brian's actions were proper. The victim had been transported. A few police were on scene investigating, and 2 of the officers were there to talk to the residents when he got downstairs. As a professional first responder, Brian understood he had no role in the investigation going on outside. If he'd woken up earlier and could have rendered aid to the victim or assisted first responders trying to save his life, that would've been different. As one of the detectives said, saving a life is always the priority over preserving a crime scene.

The wild speculation about Brian and his relatives has been remarkable. The victim's mother and brother have been jeered and harangued when they attended hearings. Police and firefighters are being accused in court by the defense of planting evidence and tampering with evidence. And that's without Brian having gone outside to examine the spot where John had been lying. Can you imagine the furor there'd be now if he had inserted himself into the investigation by going outside? Yikes! Many believe seem to believe Michael Proctor was too close to the witnesses to investigate the death impartial, and Proctor was not involved directly in the victim's death nor had he been socializing with the victim in the hours before he died. Brian had been with the victim hours earlier. IMO, Brian acted professionally and responsibly that morning by not interfering in the collection of evidence and initial investigation. If he'd gone outside, he'd be accused on compromising the investigation directly.

 

[Universecalling]

I am probably over-thinking about JN's testimony today, however, court document show a little differently. But, is her testimony really that different?
It's my opinion because no court doc link.


Claims KR black SUV gone when she (JN) left 1:30/2 am with SR and the McCabe's
JN thought she saw something in the yard.
Sara asked what Julie?
JN: a dark object in the white snow by the flag pole.
The doc goes on ... She had been to the residence numerous times and this dark object stood out to her as
something out of the ordinary but was not sure what it was as they drove by it.

moo

Also, her testimony doesn’t match her brother’s statements.
He stated the black suv was there when he got there. Juli said it was gone by the time she came out to talk to her brother.
I think she was a total disaster today.
Someone up thread mentioned that’s she’s the ride or die kinda girl. Honestly, she came off to me as someone who wants to fit in and be accepted by the cool and clout crowd. Therefore, try making her ride or die.

 

[Derph]

I agree that's why Brian did not go outside, Wishbone. But a few details in our answer are wrong. There are so many people to keep track of!

It was Brian's sister-in-law on the other side, his wife's sister Jennifer McCabe, who woke Brian and Nicole up by coming into their bedroom to tell them police wanted to speak to them. Jennifer McCabe drove Karen Read around to search; she did not bring doughnuts. Brian, Nicole, and Jen went downstairs to talk to the police officers. Brian knocked on Jr.'s door on his way downstairs.

John O'Keefe had already been transported to the hospital before McCabe woke up the Alberts. I'm not sure any fire personnel where still there, from what I recall from various first responders testifying. I don't think Karen Read and the other friend were still outside then either.

Much later in the morning, around 8:30 I think, Julie Albert (Brian's brother Chris's wife) stopped by the driveway to put half a dozen doughnuts in her nephew's car. Julie was not aware anything had happened. She wasn't planning to go in to the house, just drop off the card and present, and get to whatever she was going to do next.

Brian's actions were proper. The victim had been transported. A few police were on scene investigating, and 2 of the officers were there to talk to the residents when he got downstairs. As a professional first responder, Brian understood he had no role in the investigation going on outside. If he'd woken up earlier and could have rendered aid to the victim or assisted first responders trying to save his life, that would've been different. As one of the detectives said, saving a life is always the priority over preserving a crime scene.

The wild speculation about Brian and his relatives has been remarkable. The victim's mother and brother have been jeered and harangued when they attended hearings. Police and firefighters are being accused in court by the defense of planting evidence and tampering with evidence. And that's without Brian having gone outside to examine the spot where John had been lying. Can you imagine the furor there'd be now if he had inserted himself into the investigation by going outside? Yikes! Many believe seem to believe Michael Proctor was too close to the witnesses to investigate the death impartial, and Proctor was not involved directly in the victim's death nor had he been socializing with the victim in the hours before he died. Brian had been with the victim hours earlier. IMO, Brian acted professionally and responsibly that morning by not interfering in the collection of evidence and initial investigation. If he'd gone outside, he'd be accused on compromising the investigation directly.

One thing to go out and insert himself into the investigation but it's a whole other thing to not even bother to go outside and check-up on a supposed friend and colleague who is laying dead on your front lawn, who had been invited over to your house the night before. That's just completely odd to me. He asked no questions? Showed no concern for JO or KR. I'd at least what to get some answers to the 1001 questions I'd have if one of the people I had been out with the night before was found dead on my property. Add in all the other strange behavior and it's no wonder why so many are asking questions.

 

[Bodhi]

I think the new bit is that the dark blob was 5-6 feet in length. Also, the first time she told anyone about the blob was eight months after JO's death.

It's the first time someone has testified to seeing something there in the trial. The defense attorney said it was the first time any law enforcement spoken to her. She agreed with defense counsel that Mass State Police didn't interview her until months later. This witness never testified at a grand jury or at a hearing. She explained that the detail about the size of the object seemed new because LE or attorneys hadn't asked her to describe it before today.

I don't recall the witness testifying that she never told anyone she saw something after that night. She wasn't asked that, AFAIK. She said she saw something at the time to the people in the car. Her friend testified JN said something that caused her to turn and look out the window, but they were several houses away when she looked. Late at night, in an unlit area, in poor visibility conditions, shadows can play tricks. She had been drinking. There was no reason for her to think this was something that needed attention. But I imagine that since that night, she's had to deal with knowing she saw something but she didn't react and someone's life might have been saved if she recognized what it was.