MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023

[BigCityLady612]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

 

[Gardenista]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

Def huge and highly damaging to the states case. Unless the state capitulates and drops her charges, it's going to be a war between experts.

 

[evilwise]

I watched the hearing. The defense theory is that O'Keefe was assaulted by one or more members of the Albert household and that's how he got his head wounds. However, they also suggest that the german shepherd, seeing the fight, joined in and clawed and bit the O'Keefe on his right arm as he tried to shield himself.

At 16:20 of the hearing video, the defense holds up a large poster showing the wounds on O'Keefe's arm. I'm no expert but they sure do look like they were caused by an animal and not from being hit by a car.

My guess would be that Reed did injure him severely with her car then maybe the dog attacked him as he was laying there agonizing. It's possible that someone discovered this and googled how long it takes someone to freeze to death in a drunken sort of thought process "He's probably already dead so it won't hurt for us to sober up a bit before we call it in" or similar. That would explain a lot.

 

[Gardenista]

My guess would be that Reed did injure him severely with her car then maybe the dog attacked him as he was laying there agonizing. It's possible that someone discovered this and googled how long it takes someone to freeze to death in a drunken sort of thought process "He's probably already dead so it won't hurt for us to sober up a bit before we call it in" or similar. That would explain a lot.

Didn't the defense attorney say the homeowners testified to the GJ that their dog was inside all night long?

 

[evilwise]

Didn't the defense attorney say the homeowners testified to the GJ that their dog was inside all night long?

I would guess to begin with they thought they were trying to protect the dog but when it became a murder investigation they realized they needed to protect themselves (without contradicting their previous statements).

 

[MassGal]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

I was waiting to hear more about that from the hearing today so I'm confused..did it actually happen?

 

[MassGal]

I don't think dogs really fracture people's skulls. Are we seriously entertaining the possibility that the party hosts sicced their dog on him, clubbed him and put him in the snow outside? That seems awfully far fetched but these current charges also seem exceptionally serious for a drunk driving accident. I bet she would have accepted a plea bargain, I wonder why it's come to this sensational a level. Perhaps she is suffering from cognitive dissonance, desperately wanting to believe there is a possibility other than her being responsible.

I'm hearing both sides and I'm not judging yet...but my question is, why rehome the dog after the fact when she's been part of the family for 7 years!?

 

[ch_13]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

There's an article upthread with the DA's interpretation which explains away the google search.

Lally disputed that explanation, writing in the memo that Read directed the woman to Google, “‘How long do you have to be left outside to die from hypothermia?’, or something to that effect” after finding O’Keefe’s body.

The timestamp came from a Write Ahead Log (WAL) file, which temporarily stores data before it is written into the database, Lally explained. In fact, phone data actually shows a search for a youth basketball website at 2:27 a.m., according to the memo.

I don't quite understand the explanation. Regardless if the timestamp came from the WAL file, I don't see why it would record a time of 2:27 AM if the Google search was actually done when the body was discovered around 6 AM. But maybe there's some quirk of how mobile phones work that would explain the time discrepancy. I'm sure if this case ever does go to trial we'll be treated to dueling experts discussing phone internals.

Edit - As an aside, more and more cases seem to turn on how to interpret all the various raw data from a cell phone. I think you could probably make a pretty good living as a tech expert witness explaining to juries just what the phone data means.

 

[Yemelyan]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster. I'm fairly local (north of Boston) and this is quickly becoming huge news. Anyhow, how is anyone explaining away the Google search by someone at the Canton gathering that night that allegedly said "hos (sic) long to die in cold." The defense says that search was three hours before O'Keefe's body was discovered, and the search history was deleted the next day. Just curious, to me this is huge but I'm sure someone can explain it away.

In reading these two articles:

Defense seeks evidence they say will implicate others in officer's death

Defense attorneys argued in court Wednesday afternoon for additional discovery as they try to prove that others are the true perpetrators of the crime.

www.wcvb.com

and

Prosecution reveals alleged timeline in death of police officer

Karen Read, the officer's girlfriend, is accused of hitting him with a car and leaving him to die in a blizzard after a night of drinking in 2022.

www.wcvb.com

It seems to me that the prosecution's explanation is that the person at the Canton gathering who searched "how long to die in the cold" (or whatever the actual phrase was) was asked by Read to google that information:
Prosecutors did say that Read twice told the sister-in-law of the homeowner to search something like, "How long do you have to be left outside to die from hypothermia?" after they returned to Fairview Road. (From article 1, above).

This same person had received a call from Read around 4:53 am (according to the prosecution's timeline in article 2), and following that, Read (in hysterics) and another friend showed up at the person's home and all three eventually ended up in the same car looking for O'Keefe. During the time Read was with these other people, they reported her saying things like "Could I have hit him?"

From piecing information in the two articles together, it appears that the prosecution alleges that the search may have occurred (at Read's request once the two were together after 5:30 am) but the time that the defense says it happened is not rendered accurately in the raw data the defense has come up with (prosecution says that at the time the defense says the search took place, their data shows the phone was actually being used to browse a youth basketball site).

So, short answer, if the search happened it was at Read's request and much closer to the time the body was found, after Read suggested scenarios to her friends in which O'Keefe may have been hit and lying in the snow. Looks like this will be the prosecution's argument.

Another poster asked, if Read hit O'Keefe with her car why is there only a broken taillight and some scratches on the SUV? The second article listed above states that on February 1st, Read's car was examined by a forensic scientist who also found human hair on the rear of the vehicle.

 

[evilwise]

I'm hearing both sides and I'm not judging yet...but my question is, why rehome the dog after the fact when she's been part of the family for 7 years!?

So that it's teeth couldn't be compared to the injuries on the victims arm. My point is that even if the dog did bite him that doesn't mean that Read didn't run over him. To me, the simplest explanation is that both happened. The dog grabbing and shaking the arm with the Apple Watch on it would even explain the movement data on there after the drop off time.

 

[everybodhi]

Snipped< It seems to me that the prosecution's explanation is that the person at the Canton gathering who searched "how long to die in the cold" (or whatever the actual phrase was) was asked by Read to google that information:
Prosecutors did say that Read twice told the sister-in-law of the homeowner to search something like, "How long do you have to be left outside to die from hypothermia?" after they returned to Fairview Road. (From article 1, above).

This same person had received a call from Read around 4:53 am (according to the prosecution's timeline in article 2), and following that, Read (in hysterics) and another friend showed up at the person's home and all three eventually ended up in the same car looking for O'Keefe. During the time Read was with these other people, they reported her saying things like "Could I have hit him?"

From piecing information in the two articles together, it appears that the prosecution alleges that the search may have occurred (at Read's request once the two were together after 5:30 am) but the time that the defense says it happened is not rendered accurately in the raw data the defense has come up with (prosecution says that at the time the defense says the search took place, their data shows the phone was actually being used to browse a youth basketball site).

So, short answer, if the search happened it was at Read's request and much closer to the time the body was found, after Read suggested scenarios to her friends in which O'Keefe may have been hit and lying in the snow. Looks like this will be the prosecution's argument.

Another poster asked, if Read hit O'Keefe with her car why is there only a broken taillight and some scratches on the SUV? The second article listed above states that on February 1st, Read's car was examined by a forensic scientist who also found human hair on the rear of the vehicle.

It seems like a good deal of the evidence against Read comes from the people the defense claims is suspect

 

[everybodhi]

Snipped< At 16:20 of the hearing video, the defense holds up a large poster showing the wounds on O'Keefe's arm. I'm no expert but they sure do look like they were caused by an animal and not from being hit by a car.

I can see why the defense wants DNA samples and to see the clothes the victim was wearing.
If the dog didn’t bite him, why doesn’t the prosecution want to share the evidence that could exonerate the dog?



The defense also said they want access to O'Keefe's autopsy samples so they can test and determine if he was attacked by a dog. They also want a DNA sample from the dog, who they claim has since been re-homed out of state.

Karen Read's attorneys claim John O'Keefe was beaten, attacked by dog before death

Her lawyers call the case corrupt, arguing that evidence they don't have — including O'Keefe's clothes and the whereabouts of a dog that lived at the home — will clear her name.

Prosecutors fired back, calling the search for the dog a fishing expedition.

Defense Attorneys Say Karen Read Was Framed in Death of Boyfriend, BPD Officer O'Keefe

 

[evilwise]

I can see why the defense wants DNA samples and to see the clothes the victim was wearing.
If the dog didn’t bite him, why doesn’t the prosecution want to share the evidence that could exonerate the dog?
View attachment 419534

View attachment 419536
The defense also said they want access to O'Keefe's autopsy samples so they can test and determine if he was attacked by a dog. They also want a DNA sample from the dog, who they claim has since been re-homed out of state.

Karen Read's attorneys claim John O'Keefe was beaten, attacked by dog before death

Her lawyers call the case corrupt, arguing that evidence they don't have — including O'Keefe's clothes and the whereabouts of a dog that lived at the home — will clear her name.

Prosecutors fired back, calling the search for the dog a fishing expedition.

Defense Attorneys Say Karen Read Was Framed in Death of Boyfriend, BPD Officer O'Keefe

I've been bitten by a few dogs but I never got bit on the upper arm. They particularly like to get your wrists and hands which seem uninjured in that picture. I've always had my feet though, it might be different if you were already on the ground. They usually leave a notable arc of punctures/lacerations but again if most of the damage was done to the coat, only some random especially deep bites might have connected with flesh. I'd expect the coat would be absolutely soaked with dog DNA in that case. It seems reasonable for the defense to have access to it. I don't know that getting the suspected dog's DNA is necessary to make their defense argument, more about a possible later charge against the owners.

I predict that in the end this murder charge is going to get dismissed and probably nobody is ever going to be found legally responsible for the guy's death.

 

[ch_13]

My point is that even if the dog did bite him that doesn't mean that Read didn't run over him. To me, the simplest explanation is that both happened. The dog grabbing and shaking the arm with the Apple Watch on it would even explain the movement data on there after the drop off time.

Those apparent bite and claw marks are only on O'Keefe's right arm. That's consistent with an upright person holding their arm up to shield their head while the dog leaps at them.

But if O'Keefe were laying prone on the ground, would an animal only attack the right arm? It seems like there would also be wounds in other places on his body.

Also, I haven't heard that O'Keefe was wearing an Apple Watch, just carrying an iPhone.

 

[evilwise]

I dunno, I've never had a dog bite my bicep/tricep area.

 

[weepingangel]

Prosecutors ‘grasping at straws’ in case against dead Boston cop’s girlfriend, defense says

The girlfriend of a Boston cop is accused of his killing. Attorneys on Wednesday argued others are to blame.

www.masslive.com

 

[ch_13]

I dunno, I've never had a dog bite my bicep/tricep area.

Me neither. Nevertheless, it apparently does happens as there are a ton of gruesome pics on the internet if you want to search for them.

Like I said upthread, I'm no expert in animal attacks so maybe the dog attack theory isn't correct. During yesterday's hearing the prosecution at one point suggested the cuts were from a cocktail glass, so I don't know.

But it seems like the dog bite theory is worth investigating, doesn't it? The prosecution does not want to reveal what happened to the german shepherd, and hasn't given the defense any tissue samples nor the clothing that O'Keefe was wearing. If they did provide those items, it should clear this matter up one way or another.


Edit - Here's a non-gruesome photo a dog biting the upper arm of its trainer.

 

[evilwise]

Me neither. Nevertheless, it apparently does happens as there are a ton of gruesome pics on the internet if you want to search for them.

Like I said upthread, I'm no expert in animal attacks so maybe the dog attack theory isn't correct. During yesterday's hearing the prosecution at one point suggested the cuts were from a cocktail glass, so I don't know.

But it seems like the dog bite theory is worth investigating, doesn't it? The prosecution does not want to reveal what happened to the german shepherd, and hasn't given the defense any tissue samples nor the clothing that O'Keefe was wearing. If they did provide those items, it should clear this matter up one way or another.


Edit - Here's a non-gruesome photo a dog biting the upper arm of its trainer.

Yeah like I said before if he was wearing a winter coat I'm sure the sleeve would be soaked in dog DNA if he was attacked like that. I can't imagine why that piece of evidence is being withheld from the defense.

 

[louvillian08]

I'm struggling to even envision what the prosecution is alleging happened. KR pulls in the driveway, drops her boyfriend off and hits him while backing out of the driveway? I'm not saying there is zero chance but IMO, almost every single person would get out of the car, walk in front of the car and into the house. Walking behind the car is going out of your way and almost counter intuitive

 

[everybodhi]

I'm struggling to even envision what the prosecution is alleging happened. KR pulls in the driveway, drops her boyfriend off and hits him while backing out of the driveway? I'm not saying there is zero chance but IMO, almost every single person would get out of the car, walk in front of the car and into the house. Walking behind the car is going out of your way and almost counter intuitive

When they arrest someone 3 days after the victim dies they usually have an obvious case, even before forensics/technical forensics are analyzed.
The prosecution is really out on a limb here, imo.
They have the testimony of the victim’s niece and nephew saying they argued about 3 days a week and allegedly heard him say the relationship had run its course, the party goers are witnesses for the state who said she killed him but no one saw it, and there’s some tail light pieces they “dug up from the snow” and possibly even hair on the bumper but no forensics yet (a year later) on any of those objects?
I think they underestimated how much money their suspect would spend on attorneys and private detectives.
It’s not cheap to fight people with power who feel tribal about each other, if that is what is happening in this case as the defense alleges.
Jmo

Prosecutors ‘grasping at straws’ in case against dead Boston cop’s girlfriend, defense says
BBM
[Assistant Norfolk District Attorney] Lally in court explained that a medical examiner determined the scratches were caused by a blunt object and that there were no signs of an altercation or fight, The Globe reported.
Witnesses that night described O’Keefe leaving that bar with a cocktail glass before Read dropped him off, and Lally said pieces of cocktail glass were recovered from Read’s SUV.

“Who did that to him?” Jackson said. “Is their new theory that Karen Read got out of the car, broke a cocktail glass, then wielded an edge of that cocktail glass and cut up John’s arm? ... It makes absolutely no sense. That is the Commonwealth grasping at straws.”