MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023

[ch_13]

I've been wondering why the DA's office isn't giving poor Lally any assistance on this case. He's been a prosecutor for a long time, so I doubt the office is surprised by his courtroom demeanor. And while I know he has a co-counsel, I gather she is relatively junior and hasn't done any of the arguments to date.

They've known for at least a year that this would be a very contentious trial with nationwide publicity and Lally would be up against two incredibly competent, seasoned trial attorneys. An acquittal is going to be a giant black eye for the county.

They must have litigators that are better in front of a jury and it's a real head-scratcher why in such a high-profile case they've allowed Lally to be the sole face of the prosecution.

 

[housewife]

They look to me like a dog jumping up on you and scratching your arms with the nails on his paws. Clawing your arm as you are trying to protect yourself from getting bitten. A dog defending its owner who was fighting with JO?
The dog got rehomed. Not sure why. And did someone say it’s now dead?
I don’t think they swabbed the wounds for some reason but pls correct me if otherwise
JMO

I found these pages of dog bite photos to be similar to JO's arm.
The photos indicate how big each dog was, and if the person was wearing clothing.
I see the same linear striations that JO had.

If JO was knocked into a shrub and the branches caused his arm injuries, there would be traces of bark or leaves or sap in the wounds.
And would a shrub poke through two layers of cloth?

If the Lexas struck JO while he was standing, the bumper would impact him first because it protrudes out. I would expect leg injuries.

edit: forgot link

 

[KMouse]

As a non car person, I tried my best watching some Youtube walkthroughs and skimming through a manual but I don't think the safety features are in the console. Her model has a display screen where a TON, and I mean a TON, of features can be accessed and that's controlled by a physical "mouse" in that is in the center console but I don't think anyone would automatically understand that by looking at it. Here is a picture for reference.

Even if her car was beeping if she was backing into an object doesn't mean she listened to it and adjusted herself. Keep in mind she was drunk and likely mad at JO and not in a good frame of mind.

 

[thref23]

Why? I know a lot of people who would panic if they woke up at 4 AM and their partner hadn't returned home. And I know others who would probably just roll over and go back to sleep.

I have no idea which group Karen falls into, but I don't see her reaction as some kind of smoking gun. At least not without knowing more about her relationship with JO. Had he ever stayed out all night before? Was he generally a reliable person? Does she have anxiety? And so on.

If I'm not mistaken, he had been drunk, they had been fighting, she had dropped him off outside of a house party...given all that, I don't see any need for panic if he doesn't arrive home by 4 am. And it is not just about her panic, it is about her behavior, and statements attibuted to her. If I'm not mistaken, she allegedly said that she had "left him," and wondered if he might have gotten hit by a snow plow.

To be clear, I agree that people often panic irrationally, and that innocent people often act illogically in times of perceived crisis. I am not about to convict her based simply off of her behavior on the morning after. But I am personally left with the impression that she remembered something happening the night before which could have left JO in danger (if not dead).

And tbh, while I generally don't see reason to believe that she had intentionally hurt JO, the more I read about the morning after, the more I am reminded of the JonBenet Ramsey case, and this quote attributed to FBI agent Ron Walker:

Virtually every staged murder scene that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members, who are then put in a situation where they actually discover the body, or they are with the perpetrator as the body is discovered.

 

[ch_13]

Even if her car was beeping if she was backing into an object doesn't mean she listened to it and adjusted herself. Keep in mind she was drunk and likely mad at JO and not in a good frame of mind.

It's not just beeping. Her model of Lexus should have reverse brake assist. You can see it in action in the below video at :31 seconds. (The model is different in the video, but it will work similarly.)

Now that's not to say that the system never fails. And it's also possible that she disabled it. We'll see if the experts discuss any of that when they get to the vehicle diagnostics.

 

[louvillian08]

Even if her car was beeping if she was backing into an object doesn't mean she listened to it and adjusted herself. Keep in mind she was drunk and likely mad at JO and not in a good frame of mind.

I’m unsure what any of that has to do with my comment? We were discussing why the ADA would instruct the jury to pay special attention to the console and it doesn’t appear there’s any of that housed in the console. I’m wondering if Lally misspoke.

---

 

[LvsAMystry]

If I'm not mistaken, he had been drunk, they had been fighting

I keep seeing these references to the fact they’d been fighting when in reality there is no indication or evidence that’s the case. The video from the bar shows them hugging and clearly not fighting. She did leave some angry voicemails later after allegedly dropping him off and when he didn’t arrive home but that was after the fact of dropping him off not prior to.

 

[Wishbone]

I found these pages of dog bite photos to be similar to JO's arm.
The photos indicate how big each dog was, and if the person was wearing clothing.
I see the same linear striations that JO had.

If JO was knocked into a shrub and the branches caused his arm injuries, there would be traces of bark or leaves or sap in the wounds.
And would a shrub poke through two layers of cloth?

If the Lexas struck JO while he was standing, the bumper would impact him first because it protrudes out. I would expect leg injuries.

edit: forgot link

"I found these pages of dog bite photos to be similar to JO's arm.
The photos indicate how big each dog was, and if the person was wearing clothing.
I see the same linear striations that JO had."

Nice catch, some look very similar

 

[shotgun09]

I (Very) recently watched and followed a trial, where the defendant was egregiously and wrongfully charged ( IMO ). That trial's courtroom was, as I described " Swimming in reasonable doubt".
It ended in a mistrial.

I can see the same thing happening here in this case.


Judge Bev's courtroom needs a plumber. While it continues to flood with copious amounts of doubt, the corruption is starting to smell, making matters much worse. IMO

The state's case is nonsense, IMO. Should never have been brought to trial.

Shame on them.

Justice for John O'Keefe
Justice for Karen Read

and Justice for the people of MA.

What a mess

 

[waldojabba]

I've been wondering why the DA's office isn't giving poor Lally any assistance on this case. He's been a prosecutor for a long time, so I doubt the office is surprised by his courtroom demeanor. And while I know he has a co-counsel, I gather she is relatively junior and hasn't done any of the arguments to date.

They've known for at least a year that this would be a very contentious trial with nationwide publicity and Lally would be up against two incredibly competent, seasoned trial attorneys. An acquittal is going to be a giant black eye for the county.

They must have litigators that are better in front of a jury and it's a real head-scratcher why in such a high-profile case they've allowed Lally to be the sole face of the prosecution.

They are throwing Lally to the wolves imo. They already have so many black eyes going into this case that they are having Lally take one for the team. Just leaving him hanging out there.
I think they know it’s “curtains” for this case and they probably struggled with a last minute maybe we pull it off the docket. But I think they thought that would look worse. When the fbi is in town who is very LE friendly and says John was not hit by a car - that’s not a good thing.
JMO

 

[waldojabba]

It's not just beeping. Her model of Lexus should have reverse brake assist. You can see it in action in the below video at :31 seconds. (The model is different in the video, but it will work similarly.)

Now that's not to say that the system never fails. And it's also possible that she disabled it. We'll see if the experts discuss any of that when they get to the vehicle diagnostics.

Totally true. Your car will brake for you. I don’t have a LEXUS but a different model. One time I was backing up to pull out of a parallel parking space. I looked saw no car then started to back up not realizing a car had shot in behind when I looked forward. My car came to an immed halt braking on its own and saved me from an accident.

 

[shotgun09]

Totally true. Your car will brake for you. I don’t have a LEXUS but a different model. One time I was backing up to pull out of a parallel parking space. I looked saw no car then started to back up not realizing a car had shot in behind when I looked forward. My car came to an immed halt braking on its own and saved me from an accident.

My smahhttt cahhh once texted me through the speedometer dial, asking me if I wanted to stop for a coffee !! I guess i had crossed over the lines a few times too many.

 

[Mimimom]

Even if her car was beeping if she was backing into an object doesn't mean she listened to it and adjusted herself. Keep in mind she was drunk and likely mad at JO and not in a good frame of mind.

I can't speak of this car, but my rear camera gets blocked by snow.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

They look to me like a dog jumping up on you and scratching your arms with the nails on his paws. Clawing your arm as you are trying to protect yourself from getting bitten. A dog defending its owner who was fighting with JO?
The dog got rehomed. Not sure why. And did someone say it’s now dead?
I don’t think they swabbed the wounds for some reason but pls correct me if otherwise
JMO

Dog re-homed after JO's death and after 7 years with family. The defense is trying to get Animal Control records to verify 2 prior bites by Chloe, the dog. Then defense began talking about getting DNA from the dog but bluster about forgetting where dog went. Some think Chloe is dead. Conspiracies, Cover-Up Claims, Dog Bite Analysis Swirl In Case Of Boston Cop ‘Taillight Murder’

 

[Charlot123]

Dog re-homed after JO's death and after 7 years with family. The defense is trying to get Animal Control records to verify 2 prior bites by Chloe, the dog. Then defense began talking about getting DNA from the dog but bluster about forgetting where dog went. Some think Chloe is dead. Conspiracies, Cover-Up Claims, Dog Bite Analysis Swirl In Case Of Boston Cop ‘Taillight Murder’

So two things I got out of the article:

- the statement that taillights were “planted” by the investigators were made by Turtleboy. That means, “conspiracy nonsense” to me.

- however, this is interesting “prosecutors said in a motion filed in May that the same data shows O’Keefe taking hundreds of steps hours after he was pronounced dead — further proof that it’s unreliable” (it was said about his cellphone).

I have a question. A cellphone is not 100% reliable. However, if a phone “walks” hours after the owner is in pronounced dead, maybe someone was carrying it? In whose custody was the cellphone when JO was taken to the morgue?

Same about clothes. Very few things were said about clothes except for that JO was dressed warmly and that his clothes were saturated with blood. If he were dressed the way they describe: sweater, winter coat - how could anyone, let’s assume a dog, inflict such deep lacerations without tearing through the clothes? Did they match the clothes to the wound on his body?

(Imagine cutting someone’s skin with scissors, and the person is wearing a coat or a jacket. The scissors cut the coat, too. Yet I never ever read anything about the clothes of JO. They should be kept somewhere as material evidence. If these deep cuts do not match similar cut on the clothes, then he was undressed when his arm was lacerated, whatever it means. I am slightly obsessed with his clothes because it has never been discussed in detail.)

Maybe it doesn’t matter, maybe the case is going the mistrial way, and no one is interested in digging further. But it is really not fair towards JO. Someone killed him.

 

[Charlot123]

Yeah...I'm not buying what the defense is serving up.
I was open to their ideas until they mentioned the tailight shards. How would the homeowners at the crime scene have found the shards?

I wondered about the type of injuries the victim sustained. At first I was concerned that the injuries were all in the upper body and primarily the head. And then I thought about getting knocked over and losing your balance and then someone backing over your head. I really don't know what to think about the type of injuries in the end.

This will be an interesting trial.

It is possible. I have heard about a similar case here.

Skateboarder dies in collision with Metro bus in U-District

A man riding his skateboard in the street in the University District died early this morning after he collided with a Metro bus, police said.

www.seattletimes.com

So it might be so that a person slides along the vehicle, falls, and the head may be crashed by the rear wheel. Please note that in this case, no one in the bus noticed the collision. So theoretically, KR could have not noticed it, too. Or anyone else parking, for that matter, because we don’t have much to prove it was KR besides her own words, but she was hysterical and again, this is according to the witnesses and the witnesses might be reliable, or might be not.

 

[Charlot123]

It was exactly one year ago today. I was browsing Websleuths and saw the posted livestream of a preliminary hearing in this case. Once Alan Jackson displayed the poster of JO's wounds at 16:20 my interest was piqued.

So that one year ago (I watched it on YouTube), the prosecution had a hair from the car that they were waiting to examine (the defense could not decide on their expert being present).

I surely hope that during this year, they have examined that hair.

Also, is there still a way (because some tissues have been preserved, as I have heard) to test them for at least presence of any DNA?

I am thinking, even if Chloe is not alive, German shepherds have parents. Siblings, too. If any of Chloe’s relatives is alive, or if genetic testing confirms that it was a German shepherd DNA, it would be telling.

 

[TristanP]

Prosecution will need to do a good job of laying out a believable sequence of events for his wounds, but I don't think there is any chance those are animal bites.

A lot of room under that car. Maybe he was knocked somewhat on his side with that arm/shoulder upwards and something ripped across it as she was going backward/forward. That would be my guess.

They would have found a lot more evidence on her vehicle if this was what happened, though.

 

[ch_13]

- the statement that taillights were “planted” by the investigators were made by Turtleboy. That means, “conspiracy nonsense” to me.

Turtleboy may have been pushing this, but the issues around the taillight pieces come straight out of the court docs and the preliminary hearings. The defense has raised questions about:

1. The timings of when the taillight shards were found and how that evidence was documented and logged.
2. Exactly when the Lexus was towed. After a year of denying it, the commonwealth finally admitted this past September that the time that Proctor wrote in his reports was incorrect. They now blame it on a "scrivener's error".

I'm sure this will all be discussed in great detail so stay tuned.

I surely hope that during this year, they have examined that hair.

As of March, the hair still hadn't been tested for DNA. Lally blamed backups at the lab. The defense blamed Lally. I assume it's been tested by now but I don't know if the judge has ruled it admissible yet.

Personally, I don't think the hair is all that important. JO clearly spent time in and around the car. The defense could easily claim it was there because JO worked on the Lexus or washed it, or even because he had touched the taillight while grabbing something out of the cargo space. I know my DNA is probably all over my car.

Now if it was blood that would be different. But a hair?

 

[HarmonyE.]

So it might be so that a person slides along the vehicle, falls, and the head may be crashed by the rear wheel. Please note that in this case, no one in the bus noticed the collision. So theoretically, KR could have not noticed it, too.

If you mean his head was "crushed" by the rear wheel, it wasn't. The head injury that disabled him was very small, just a few inches, but deep enough to be penetrating. Also, his body was found 12 feet onto the lawn which doesn't fit this scenario.

As for "feeling" it, you really cannot compare a bus to a passenger vehicle.