MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

[jjenny]

BUT, LE knew that this had a "graphic" message...not typical of a "drug deal gone bad" and they knew that two other people had been in the apartment just prior to the murders. They also knew that the murders occurred on Sept 11th and that there was no sign of forced entry. None of the neighbors heard any noises that might have suggested a violent struggle took place. (Suggesting that the turned over furniture was an afterthought, IMO.)

LE knew plenty to start an in depth investigation on BM's so-called best friend who was a no show at the first vigil/ceremony, the funeral and the one year anniversary memorial. Even the gym owner saw that TT abruptly stopped coming to the gym to workout.

LE had plenty of reason to at least check on the welfare of the so-called best friend and finding him alive and well to question him for info that might help in the investigation. By the time of the murders, Russia had already alerted the US govt about their concerns re: TT and his mother.

And in Ariel Castro's case, LE knew his daughter was the one to last see the victim before victim went missing. Still they never interviewed Castro. Just because LE might have plenty of reasons to do something, doesn't mean they will do it.
Furthermore, FBI never told to LE anything about Russia warning them about TT.
And, furthermore, FBI didn't have a clue as to who TT was, since they had to release his photos to the public. I really fail to see why they would be asking public for help if they were following TT.

 

[time]

I've seen no evidence FBI watched TT whatsoever. They appear to have investigated him briefly after Russia reported him, decided he was no threat, and didn't follow through. Police in the triple murder case never considered him as a possible suspect either, per their own admission. Despite TT's name being mentioned by victim's friends. I don't believe for a millisecond FBI told police not to follow TT just saw they could themselves follow him. He barely had any connections to other terrorists. I've seen plenty of this in other cases, where police don't investigate a viable suspect just because it never occurs to them that this person should be a suspect. Just like in Cleveland kidnapping, Ariel Castro's daughter was the last person to have seen a victim before victim went missing. That daughter even appeared on America's Most Wanted. Yet police never investigated Ariel Castro as a s suspect and never even interviewed him.

BBM - was this claim made somewhere?

I don't know if they thought he was a viable suspect or not, but I think they didn't have concrete evidence to connect him to the murders. At least at the time. I do still think it's odd that the GF of Mess, TT, and IT scattered after the deaths. Well, IT ... we don't know if he was going to GA/FL anyway, I guess.

 

[jjenny]

BBM - was this claim made somewhere?

I don't know if they thought he was a viable suspect or not, but I think they didn't have concrete evidence to connect him to the murders. At least at the time. I do still think it's odd that the GF of Mess, TT, and IT scattered after the deaths. Well, IT ... we don't know if he was going to GA/FL anyway, I guess.

Yes, it is in msm. TT's name was mentioned to the police, but police never investigated him.

“Tamerlan’s name came up in a very wide net during the course of the investigation,” the source said. “But there was never any evidence or anything offered to investigators that led to his being considered anything other than one of a group of friends.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...hon-bombing/mJ2MwjWEZNZqYPRDixQX4I/story.html

 

[time]

Yes, it is in msm. TT's name was mentioned to the police, but police never investigated him.

"Nevertheless, it is clear that investigators looking into the Waltham homicides, the worst crime in the city in more than a decade, initally had reason for optimism. Friends and relatives of the victims interviewed by the Globe said they readily provided police with the names of individuals who may have been familiar faces at the Waltham apartment, including Tsarnaev’s."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...hon-bombing/mJ2MwjWEZNZqYPRDixQX4I/story.html

BBM... thanks! I didn't know it was definitive that TT was never investigated or thought they partially looked into him, but not fully. I'm still not sure that means they didn't look into that list of friends, but maybe they didn't.

I can't remember when TT started having an online presence? Also, I think it would be incredibly odd not to look into him given a lot of quirky facts, e.g., one article states they knew two men were at the house before the murder but were never identified, TT not attending the funeral, TT had some history of violence, etc.

 

[jjenny]

BBM... thanks!

I didn't know it was definitive that TT was never investigated or thought they partially looked into him, but not fully.

I can't remember when TT started having an online presence? Also, I think it would be incredibly odd not to look into him given a lot of quirky facts, e.g., one article states they knew two men were at the house before the murder but were never identified, TT not attending the funeral, TT had some history of violence, etc.

You have to combine the current article with the previous articles that said he was never interviewed in connection with a triple murder.

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...hon-bombing/mJ2MwjWEZNZqYPRDixQX4I/story.html

Still, some friends and relatives of the victims say that State Police, who were leading the investigation, and Waltham police had enough information to focus on Tsarnaev because of his close friendship with Mess and the fact that he did not show up for a well-attended memorial service for him at Ryle’s Jazz Club in Cambridge.

Why did the State Police take over the investigation? Waltham is a small city of 60,000. Where I live, it seems like if a town/city can't handle a murder investigation they turn to the County Sheriff's Office or the larger city in the vicinity.

 

[time]

You have to combine the current article with the previous articles that said he was never interviewed in connection with a triple murder.

Ok, that's sounds about par for this case and the bombings! Thanks, then they made a huge mistake and one I don't understand.

Sophie... I was wondering the same thing about the State Police, but I don't know anything about the area.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Yes, it is in msm. TT's name was mentioned to the police, but police never investigated him.

“Tamerlan’s name came up in a very wide net during the course of the investigation,” the source said. “But there was never any evidence or anything offered to investigators that led to his being considered anything other than one of a group of friends.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...hon-bombing/mJ2MwjWEZNZqYPRDixQX4I/story.html

The FBI takes over investigations all the time from police. Just recently here in LA, the LAPD got busted for trying to bug and interfere with ongoing FBI investigation.

Essentially the FBI picks up the case and the police are told whatever propaganda is necessary to filter to the community so as to not compromise the FBI investigation.

 

[jjenny]

The FBI takes over investigations all the time from police. Just recently here in LA, the LAPD got busted for trying to bug and interfere with ongoing FBI investigation.

Essentially the FBI picks up the case and the police are told whatever propaganda is necessary to filter to the community so as to not compromise the FBI investigation.

FBI wasn't involved back in 2011 when the triple murders took place.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

FBI wasn't involved back in 2011 when the triple murders took place.

Even if the FBI were involved, do you think they would make that public knowledge? Especially if it might tip off TT, DT, or IT that the investigation had become a matter of national security and no longer just a local affair?

And it was as if the Feds immediately knew where IT was after the bombings... As if they had been watching him all along and knew he was connected to TT.

IMHO

 

[jjenny]

Even if the FBI were involved, do you think they would make that public knowledge? Especially if it might tip off TT, DT, or IT that the investigation had become a matter of national security and no longer just a local affair?

And it was as if the Feds immediately knew where IT was after the bombings... As if they had been watching him all along and knew he was connected to TT.

IMHO

IT and TT are both dead, while DT sits in prison. I don't know why FBI would be worried about tipping them off. FBI knew where IT was because his number was in TT's phone. And I haven't seen anything about FBI knowing where IT was immediately after the bombing. They didn't even know where TT was immediately after the bombing. In fact they didn't know who he was. Thus they had to release photos to the public.

 

[claudicici]

....and isn't that a big problem? Millions of private people are being spied on but we were warned about this guy by both the Russians and the Saudis and he carries out a terrorist plot? Something is seriously wrong with that picture IMO

 

[Just K]

Someone mentioned the July 4th original date for the brothers to wreak havoc on the city that took them in. What if they upped the date not because the bombs were ready early but because they knew they were on a watch list and being watched they wanted to do it sooner than later.

If the investigators had really checked TT out, like they said, they would have known about his videos, his online searches and his calls to & from Russia. It seems to me, they may have had him on a leash and were giving him enough rope in order to catch the bigger fish. Not expecting the brothers to go rogue and hit two months earlier, they may have wanted to stop them right before July 4th in order to have a high profile arrest. KWIM?

 

[claudicici]

That's exactly what I've been thinking all along !!!

 

[time]

....and isn't that a big problem? Millions of private people are being spied on but we were warned about this guy by both the Russians and the Saudis and he carries out a terrorist plot? Something is seriously wrong with that picture IMO

I think you are painting too broad of a picture.

1. Did they have enough to warrant more surveillance on Tamerlan and his mother and even if they did, would that have warned them of a homemade bomb making plot? We do know they investigated them.

2. If the Gov is spying upon millions of people in the US are those people in the same realm as DT/TT's pre-bombing activities or far less of a threat (or more).

It seems, in general, people are complaining about the Gov's 'spying' activities AND about not catching someone like TT or DT before they do anything. I think there is a balance.

 

[time]

Someone mentioned the July 4th original date for the brothers to wreak havoc on the city that took them in. What if they upped the date not because the bombs were ready early but because they knew they were on a watch list and being watched they wanted to do it sooner than later.

If the investigators had really checked TT out, like they said, they would have known about his videos, his online searches and his calls to & from Russia. It seems to me, they may have had him on a leash and were giving him enough rope in order to catch the bigger fish. Not expecting the brothers to go rogue and hit two months earlier, they may have wanted to stop them right before July 4th in order to have a high profile arrest. KWIM?

Very interesting point and I think that is very possible.

 

[SophieRose]

Someone mentioned the July 4th original date for the brothers to wreak havoc on the city that took them in. What if they upped the date not because the bombs were ready early but because they knew they were on a watch list and being watched they wanted to do it sooner than later.

If the investigators had really checked TT out, like they said, they would have known about his videos, his online searches and his calls to & from Russia. It seems to me, they may have had him on a leash and were giving him enough rope in order to catch the bigger fish. Not expecting the brothers to go rogue and hit two months earlier, they may have wanted to stop them right before July 4th in order to have a high profile arrest. KWIM?

Why then didn't the FBI know who they were right after the bombing? They weren't even able to identify them without going to the public for help.

 

[Just K]

Why then didn't the FBI know who they were right after the bombing? They weren't even able to identify them without going to the public for help.

Well, IMO, they knew exactly who they were and they released the images to assuage the public's outcry and to get as many clear images of the two as possible... let the public feel like they caught the bad guys and to see whether those who knew TT & DT would report them, ALL IMO or theory, of course. Also, to smoke them out so to speak.

 

[CARIIS]

....and isn't that a big problem? Millions of private people are being spied on but we were warned about this guy by both the Russians and the Saudis and he carries out a terrorist plot? Something is seriously wrong with that picture IMO

T O T A L L Y ..........now breaking were off to Syria to ....................

its endless...........

 

[SophieRose]

Well, IMO, they knew exactly who they were and they released the images to assuage the public's outcry and to get as many clear images of the two as possible... let the public feel like they caught the bad guys and to see whether those who knew TT & DT would report them, ALL IMO or theory, of course. Also, to smoke them out so to speak.

Well, they certainly weren't at the Cambridge apartment very quickly. And if they knew they did a lousy job since MIT cop Sean Collier was killed. Sorry don't buy it.