MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #1

[ThinkHard]

I'd venture to say that just about any woman age 30 and under uses social media to a great extent. So the coincidence that both used SM a lot is akin to saying, "they both breathed oxygen!"

Both being Italian is another red herring. Huge Italian populations in NY and areas surrounding.

Both were women. Well, yeah.

Both had long hair worn in a ponytail when running. Another common thing among young women, especially those 30 and under.

Both had dark hair. This too is very common with the population of NY and areas.

Both were fit. Of course they were -- young, active female runners generally are fit. They're the ones who are most likely to be out running a few to several times a week.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I agree 100%. While it is a list of similarities, none of them are particularly unique and all of them could describe a whole lot of girls in those areas and age ranges that run. I think those are very common characteristics that would hold true for any number of victims that have been murdered while jogging.

 

[sta7ic]

I'd venture to say that just about any woman age 30 and under uses social media to a great extent. So the coincidence that both used SM a lot is akin to saying, "they both breathed oxygen!"

Both being Italian is another red herring. Huge Italian populations in NY and areas surrounding.

Both were women. Well, yeah.

Both had long hair worn in a ponytail when running. Another common thing among young women, especially those 30 and under.

Both had dark hair. This too is very common with the population of NY and areas.

Both were fit. Of course they were -- young, active female runners generally are fit. They're the ones who are most likely to be out running a few to several times a week.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Yes this is true...so take out the red herrings from my list and how many coincidences do we still have? Also add being murdered, strangled, at the same time of day to that list prior to the other items on the list and the probabilities go from millions down to a handful jmo

 

[sta7ic]

True but in very different parts of the city, not very close to each other.

Actually we think we put them within .5 miles of each other in NYC. So this may not be far away any further. Just a theory for now.

 

[sta7ic]

Here is part of a post I posted last night that is my take on that question :


I still believe the killer is a stalker, a psychopathic stalker, and that there IS some kind of connection between Vanessa Marcotte and Karina Vetrano's case.
If it's not the same killer, then I believe that Vanessa's killer is either a Karina Vetrano killer copycat, or that the two killers are some kind of really sick
game-team-killers who planed to commit to similar murders.

I know this thoughts seems far out, so why do I believe this ?

Because IMHO it is statistically not likely that two SUCH brutal murders, two SO similar crimes happen SO few days apart, AND on top of that, both victims have SO many similarities / things in common.



Here is a copy of a Post I posted on the Karina Vetrano thread a couple of days ago:


The two victims KV and VM lived not far apart, KV in Queens and VM in New York City (VM vas just visiting her mother in Princeton, Massachusetts when she was murdered, only 2-3 hours drive from NY city) and we don't know yet where in New York City VM lived, she could, for all we know, have lived close to KV, and/or who knows if they had some social circles in common where the killer might be a part, at least in the periphery?

IF the killer is the same man in both murders, then I believe he is the kind of killer I suspect, a psychopathic sexual predator, whom in high speed is evolving into a serial killer and who sees his killings as a deadly "game", a "project" an "artwork".
And if that is the case I think it is not unlikely that he stalked both woman and eventually followed VM to Princeton, he might have gotten info about her trip to Princeton from her social media (a stalker both in real life and on the internet/social media).

Here is a copy of a post that show how much thise two victims have in common, could that really be a coincident?
Yes of course it can, but it's not very likely IMHO:

Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte have a LOT in common IMO:


Both KV and VM have:
Long brown hair
Brown eyes
athletic bodies
seem to be very petite
Italian names

Both KV and VM are:
Out jogging when murdered
Murdered within same week, Tuesday and Sunday
Murdered in broad daylight, in the afternoon
Murder scene ca 1/2 a mile from their parents homes
Left residential areas to jogg and bodies found in nature area
Both found within a few hours of their disappearance
Both raped, well, KV was gruesomely raped, both vaginal and anal (sorry to be so graphic bur we need to get ALL the facts to be able to possibly get the puzzle together)
(we still don't know for sure concerning VM, but it is indeed very likely that Vanessa was raped, or at least that, that was part of the killers plan )
Live in ca. same area Queens and NY City
Are ca. same age 30 and 27
Stunning beauties.
No boyfriends
Successful young woman
Athletic girls
Cause of death: KV strangulation... VM, still pending, but due to apparently no blood at the crime scene strangulations is a probable
cause of death.

You and I are backing the same horse.. We both seem to agree on this but very well could be wrong... only time will tell which I think we all hope and believe will be soon. Very well put for not having English be your primary language!

 

[x_files]

That app sounds scary. Scary in the sense that anyone can follow your every move and target you. It's a shame they don't implement some safe guard for the users. Something like friending other runners/family and only they know your location. Apps like this one are perfect tools for stalker's.

Don't forget FB informs you who is nearby. You have to manually turn this feature OFF under privacy settings. Both women may have their attacker as a FB friend/acquaintance.

 

[ThinkHard]

Here is part of a post I posted last night that is my take on that question :


I still believe the killer is a stalker, a psychopathic stalker, and that there IS some kind of connection between Vanessa Marcotte and Karina Vetrano's case.
If it's not the same killer, then I believe that Vanessa's killer is either a Karina Vetrano killer copycat, or that the two killers are some kind of really sick
game-team-killers who planed to commit to similar murders.

I know this thoughts seems far out, so why do I believe this ?

Because IMHO it is statistically not likely that two SUCH brutal murders, two SO similar crimes happen SO few days apart, AND on top of that, both victims have SO many similarities / things in common.



Here is a copy of a Post I posted on the Karina Vetrano thread a couple of days ago:


The two victims KV and VM lived not far apart, KV in Queens and VM in New York City (VM vas just visiting her mother in Princeton, Massachusetts when she was murdered, only 2-3 hours drive from NY city) and we don't know yet where in New York City VM lived, she could, for all we know, have lived close to KV, and/or who knows if they had some social circles in common where the killer might be a part, at least in the periphery?

IF the killer is the same man in both murders, then I believe he is the kind of killer I suspect, a psychopathic sexual predator, whom in high speed is evolving into a serial killer and who sees his killings as a deadly "game", a "project" an "artwork".
And if that is the case I think it is not unlikely that he stalked both woman and eventually followed VM to Princeton, he might have gotten info about her trip to Princeton from her social media (a stalker both in real life and on the internet/social media).

Here is a copy of a post that show how much thise two victims have in common, could that really be a coincident?
Yes of course it can, but it's not very likely IMHO:

Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte have a LOT in common IMO:


Both KV and VM have:
Long brown hair
Brown eyes
athletic bodies
seem to be very petite
Italian names

Both KV and VM are:
Out jogging when murdered
Murdered within same week, Tuesday and Sunday
Murdered in broad daylight, in the afternoon
Murder scene ca 1/2 a mile from their parents homes
Left residential areas to jogg and bodies found in nature area
Both found within a few hours of their disappearance
Both raped, well, KV was gruesomely raped, both vaginal and anal (sorry to be so graphic bur we need to get ALL the facts to be able to possibly get the puzzle together)
(we still don't know for sure concerning VM, but it is indeed very likely that Vanessa was raped, or at least that, that was part of the killers plan )
Live in ca. same area Queens and NY City
Are ca. same age 30 and 27
Stunning beauties.
No boyfriends
Successful young woman
Athletic girls
Cause of death: KV strangulation... VM, still pending, but due to apparently no blood at the crime scene strangulations is a probable
cause of death.

Regarding the likllelihood of two such killings happening within days of each other within a 200 mile radius I think is not as uncommon as you might think. I actually think it happens far more frequently then that. However I think because stuff like this just doesn't happen in Princeton it got a lot of attention and because she was living in NYC it got connected to the KV murder. And then because of the cases possibly being connected both got even more attention.

As far as their similarities I think those coincidence are very generalized and a lot of runners could fit the profile, so those things alone don't convince me these cases are related.

 

[Theforeigner]

You and I are backing the same horse.. We both seem to agree on this but very well could be wrong... only time will tell which I think we all hope and believe will be soon. Very well put for not having English be your primary language!

Agree 100%, and thanks for the kind words concerning my english

 

[Madeleine74]

My theory is this: both women were strangers who did not know each other. Both went on jogs that put them in semi-remote or remote areas where they were vulnerable. Each woman thought she was safe. Each woman was wrong as they were alone, no one was around to provide protection, and they were "easy pickins" for pervs who look for opportunities to attack. As such, each woman, alone and vulnerable, met with danger in the form of opportunistic pervs who decided to strike. Each young woman fought back with her attacker and each woman was murdered, perhaps as a result of fighting back hard.

Two different killers, killers not connected to each other, victims not connected to each other, police have gone on record more than once saying they've compared notes and these 2 crimes do not appear to be related.

 

[junebug85]

I agree 100%. While it is a list of similarities, none of them are particularly unique and all of them could describe a whole lot of girls in those areas and age ranges that run. I think those are very common characteristics that would hold true for any number of victims that have been murdered while jogging.

I really believe the 2 murders are completely unrelated. If they are, I'll eat my hat but I would be anything that this is a local man, late 20's to 30's, working a blue collar job. He is very familiar with the area. Familiar enough to know about the cart roads. If he didn't grow up in Princeton exactly, he lives close enough that he grew up going to the mountain and 4 wheeling with friends in the woods regularly. He would be categorized as a disorganized offender. He has likely been accused of sexual assault or even rape before. He didn't have enough time or plan enough to dispose of her body in a manner that made her difficult to find. She was only 100 yards in. I would bet that he is of low to average intelligence. Based on the fact that the fire didn't really catch, he didn't take the time or know enough to properly build a fire. He probably used something small like a lighter. Just my 2 cents though, honestly, I don't want to be right. Isn't it more appealing to think there is only 1 bad guy out there they need to catch?

 

[carbuff]

The Rockaways was tagged as the location.

Yeah, that's why I was thinking of a possible beach/activity connection. I agree it's not very likely, but I expected to see something that would definitely rule it out by now.


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[ThinkHard]

Yes this is true...so take out the red herrings from my list and how many coincidences do we still have? Also add being murdered, strangled, at the same time of day to that list prior to the other items on the list and the probabilities go from millions down to a handful jmo

They weren't exactly the same time of day, Vanessa was early afternoon likely around 1/2 on a Sunday. Karinas was after 5 on a weekday.

 

[Lawdini01234]

They don't always warn the public. Residents in Seattle weren't told the truth about The Green River Killer case.

Yeah I definitely can't argue that they don't always warn the public, was just saying that I HOPE they would.

And after looking at the green River killer case psshhhh can't believe how many victims and for how long that went on for.

 

[ThinkHard]

Actually we think we put them within .5 miles of each other in NYC. So this may not be far away any further. Just a theory for now.

How so? I know it was mentioned that the Highline is .5 away from where she might have been in Chelsea...but that doesn't put KV anywhere near the Highline.

 

[Tempura]

My theory is this: both women were strangers who did not know each other. Both went on jogs that put them in semi-remote or remote areas where they were vulnerable. Each woman thought she was safe. Each woman was wrong as they were alone, no one was around to provide protection, and they were "easy pickins" for pervs who look for opportunities to attack. As such, each woman, alone and vulnerable, met with danger in the form of opportunistic pervs who decided to strike. Each young woman fought back with her attacker and each woman was murdered, perhaps as a result of fighting back hard.

Two different killers, killers not connected to each other, victims not connected to each other, police have gone on record more than once saying they've compared notes and these 2 crimes do not appear to be related.

I agree with you. The only connection that I think could be possible is that VMs perp was inspired after hearing of Karina's murder.

 

[ThinkHard]

Don't forget FB informs you who is nearby. You have to manually turn this feature OFF under privacy settings. Both women may have their attacker as a FB friend/acquaintance.

I don't know anyone who uses this feature. Usually people have to checked in somewhere to be reported nearby. Also if it says your location on a post it usually just gives the city not specific location.

 

[sta7ic]

How so? I know it was mentioned that the Highline is .5 away from where she might have been in Chelsea...but that doesn't put KV anywhere near the Highline.

Because I googled the Google office where I assume VM worked in NY is .5 miles from the Highline and Chelsea Pier.

 

[junebug85]

I really believe the 2 murders are completely unrelated. If they are, I'll eat my hat but I would be anything that this is a local man, late 20's to 30's, working a blue collar job. He is very familiar with the area. Familiar enough to know about the cart roads. If he didn't grow up in Princeton exactly, he lives close enough that he grew up going to the mountain and 4 wheeling with friends in the woods regularly. He would be categorized as a disorganized offender. He has likely been accused of sexual assault or even rape before. He didn't have enough time or plan enough to dispose of her body in a manner that made her difficult to find. She was only 100 yards in. I would bet that he is of low to average intelligence. Based on the fact that the fire didn't really catch, he didn't take the time or know enough to properly build a fire. He probably used something small like a lighter. Just my 2 cents though, honestly, I don't want to be right. Isn't it more appealing to think there is only 1 bad guy out there they need to catch?

Another detail about disorganized offenders is that they frequently live with a relative.

 

[Tempura]

I really believe the 2 murders are completely unrelated. If they are, I'll eat my hat but I would be anything that this is a local man, late 20's to 30's, working a blue collar job. He is very familiar with the area. Familiar enough to know about the cart roads. If he didn't grow up in Princeton exactly, he lives close enough that he grew up going to the mountain and 4 wheeling with friends in the woods regularly. He would be categorized as a disorganized offender. He has likely been accused of sexual assault or even rape before. He didn't have enough time or plan enough to dispose of her body in a manner that made her difficult to find. She was only 100 yards in. I would bet that he is of low to average intelligence. Based on the fact that the fire didn't really catch, he didn't take the time or know enough to properly build a fire. He probably used something small like a lighter. Just my 2 cents though, honestly, I don't want to be right. Isn't it more appealing to think there is only 1 bad guy out there they need to catch?

I think these very same things.

 

[carbuff]

Because I googled the Google office where I assume KV worked in NY is .5 miles from the Highline and Chelsea Pier.

Wait. KV worked for Google???? Or did you make a typo and mean VM?


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[Tempura]

Another detail about disorganized offenders is that they frequently live with a relative.

I believe the perp is being protected by a relative right now.