MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #2

[khaki]

First time poster to this thread. Just wanted to say how sorry I am to read about this tragic, horrific crime. I'm not all caught up on reading so I am not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but regarding the burning and scorched areas-I was thinking since it's been reported Vanessa was found unclothed, maybe that patch of burned out grass/earth is where her clothes were burned. As far as I know, no one reported a fire in the area that day so I think it's possible the monster who did this burned the clothes without creating and leaving a fire going. Maybe he put it out quickly or used something like a torch that has been mentioned. Seems he burned the areas on Vanessa's body where his DNA could be found and then maybe burned the pile of clothes too.

 

[Camerabug]

My first attempt to post. Have read most of thread #1 & all of thread#2. My heart goes out to all affected by this horrible crime. I have been pretty obsessed with it, and asked myself why. It is that all in all Vanessa's day that Sunday was so so very low risk. Totally wholesome. (No one deserves to be victim of crime or of ultimate crime murder even if in high risk environment, obviously.) But when you think of this young lady visiting family members in a scenic area familiar to her, taking a stroll or jog on a sunny Sunday afternoon, it just breaks your heart. I am very impatient for the case to be solved, but of course that is unrealistic. We have so very little factual information at this point. I do feel confident in what LE is doing. I also felt frustration at the calls to police about racoons and bats at this time when they are working long hard hours on this most serious case. Reading everyone's posts helps me to cope with the frustration and abject dismay at human evil.

Welcome to WS!

It is a frustrating case, but there is also information even in those nuisance calls, imho. The local police probably know the lonely folks, the attention seekers, the thrill seekers AND the potentially more dangerous types. They are able to sort all that out fairly easily. Someone attempting to distract too often from the investigation may also give the police ideas...all just MOO

 

[sunsetbeach]

I am very curious as to why they are looking for a vehicle in this case when it could be someone who lives on Brooks Station Rd within walking distance. Someone who had seen her several or many times before. I mean there are 0 eyewitnesses to seeing a vehicle yet we do know cars were on the road that day as one poster here was on that road around the time this happened. It was quite unnerving to him/her to learn that info but even he/she didn't see anything unusual.

Then the other day someone here linked an article about a couple of attempted abductions in the area.

Northborough is 19.6 miles from Brooks Station Road and Westborough is 23.7 miles.

I guess I am just wondering if they think VM's case could be connected to these other two unsolved cases. One was jogging and the other walking.

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/06/men_try_to_abduct_women_in_sep.html

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/06/police_release_sketch_of_suspe.html

Anything is possible but I am still thinking the perp lives on that road and he got there the same way he left ... by foot through the woods. He knows the area and knew he would not be seen.

 

[Madeleine74]

I am very curious as to why they are looking for a vehicle in this case

Remember, the police & detectives always know things the public doesn't know. If they are looking for tips on a vehicle in an area there's a good reason for it, even if that reason has not been disclosed. Further, what LE has or has not done will not necessarily ever be disclosed to the public, i.e. the inner workings of their investigation. Following cases forces a case follower to accept this reality: what LE/detectives have in the way of evidence will not be shared until a case is litigated in a courtroom.

 

[Camerabug]

Interesting piece from Fox 25:

[h=1]How CODIS fits into search for Princeton jogger killer[/h]
Quote:

[h=1]“What the investigators are doing, is now they are taking it personal, personal for the victim, personal for the family and personal for the community because they want this person off the street,” he said.

While a DNA match would help the case against a suspect if there is a match, Morrealle told FOX25 investigators would have to find other evidence that places him at the scene.

[/h]http://www.fox25boston.com/news/how-codis-fits-into-search-for-princeton-jogger-killer/425751666

 

[Madeleine74]

As for why GOOGLE continues to be put in the headlines? Because it's a hook, a way of boiling down the essence of a story to just a few words to attract readers. Since Google is one of the best known companies in the world, it heightens the intensity, makes people want to click on the article. VM likely wasn't killed because of where she worked, but that's the marketing spin on the article.

The media also has this unfortunate habit of elevating the position of people in companies (something I've noticed not only in this case but in several other cases). VM was not a manager of people at Google. One can have 'manager' as part of their title and not manage anyone. That's actually very common. The media will claim someone is "an executive at companyxyz" and that person is in reality a member of a team, no one reports to them, and they are not an executive. That's why what the media writes & says can have lots of little and sometimes even big errors. So if one is parsing every word in an article, just know that mistakes are common.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Remember, the police & detectives always know things the public doesn't know. If they are looking for tips on a vehicle in an area there's a good reason for it, even if that reason has not been disclosed. Further, what LE has or has not done will not necessarily ever be disclosed to the public, i.e. the inner workings of their investigation. Following cases forces a case follower to accept this reality: what LE/detectives have in the way of evidence will not be shared until a case is litigated in a courtroom.

Yes, I know. I have followed several cases over the years but that doesn't stop me from thinking out loud. I know most of the questions I have won't be answered until (or if) there is a court proceeding.

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes, I know. I have followed several cases over the years but that doesn't stop me from thinking out loud. I know most of the questions I have won't be answered until (or if) there is a court proceeding.

Well you know the score then. That's good! Lots of newbies think someone inside the investigation will be along shortly to answer their questions and tell them if all their guesses were right or wrong. I suspect it can be a bit jarring to realize all that comes back is, in essence, silence and crickets chirping.

 

[bettiepageturner]

IMHO that guy will be checked out thoroughly because it could be an attempt to lure people away from the safety of their homes.

rsbm

Yeah, exactly - just seems weird it would happen several days apart like that. But maybe it's a neighborly thing to do? I know if a stranger knocked on my door to warn me about something here in NY (or even in suburban Atlanta where I'm from) I would assume they want me to open the door so they can force their way in. But then again I'm paranoid (and probably seem rude) thanks to all the sleuthing.

 

[Camerabug]

Something's up. They've gotten a lead imho

I am very curious as to why they are looking for a vehicle in this case when it could be someone who lives on Brooks Station Rd within walking distance. <snip>

I'm wondering if this means they are leaning away from a Princeton native or perhaps to the possibility of a serial rapist-turned murderer.

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest...en_in_sep.html

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest..._of_suspe.html

Something else I got from this link [below] was near the very end when he talks about [quoting the printed article:] the Westminster police have sent video from cruisers to state police, hoping the cruisers may have recorded a car fleeing the area [end quote] when they handled the motorcycle crash nearby.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/450-tips-roll-in-about-princeton-jogger-murder/422137603

 

[Steleheart]

Something's up. They've gotten a lead imho


I'm wondering if this means they are leaning away from a Princeton native or perhaps to the possibility of a serial rapist-turned murderer.

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest...en_in_sep.html

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest..._of_suspe.html

Something else I got from this link [below] was near the very end when he talks about [quoting the printed article:] the Westminster police have sent video from cruisers to state police, hoping the cruisers may have recorded a car fleeing the area [end quote] when they handled the motorcycle crash nearby.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/450-tips-roll-in-about-princeton-jogger-murder/422137603

I wonder if these 2 women Used the MapMyRun app as well.

It's not clear if the woman walking was between jogs.

 

[webweaved]

Something's up. They've gotten a lead imho


I'm wondering if this means they are leaning away from a Princeton native or perhaps to the possibility of a serial rapist-turned murderer.

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest...en_in_sep.html

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcest..._of_suspe.html

Something else I got from this link [below] was near the very end when he talks about [quoting the printed article:] the Westminster police have sent video from cruisers to state police, hoping the cruisers may have recorded a car fleeing the area [end quote] when they handled the motorcycle crash nearby.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/450-tips-roll-in-about-princeton-jogger-murder/422137603

Ok. So looking at these reports.....So back in June there was two men on the side of the road with the hood of their car up....the jogger passed them, then they came for her....
Didn't I read a similar suspicion person/vehicle report in the NEW Landmark of something very similar either the day of or right after Vanessa's murder? (Susp. person w/hood up on or near Brooks Station) I'm at work so I can't look right now...someone go look...if memory is correct...I think I read that. Could be nothing..coincidence...or could be something. JMO. Forgive me if I'm wrong. :angel:

 

[zoso]

Hi, I'm new to the site. I have been following this case and had been following the cases of HG and MH on this site and I'm impressed with your deductions and your compassion.

A couple of thoughts/questions: I don't think she knew the perp. I don't necessarily think the perp is young and I think "sockboy" is throwing everyone off, although I wouldn't rule out someone's disturbed teenage nephew or son. I noticed an older smaller farmhouse with many old cars in the yard adjacent to a mansion on the west side of the road. I'm not in anyway implying the owner is involved, but I found it interesting.

Since there seem to be many stately homes and vacation homes, I would also look at contractors in the area. Service trucks, vehicles are nondescript, common place in areas like that and he would have a torch, gas, cord anything needed. A plumber would carry a propane torch for example to sweat pipe. I don't think a mechanic, civilian, teenager would carry a torch, really.

The fact that Vanessa was found so close to the road makes me think the perp is NOT from the area, however could be linked to the area. If from the area, I think a deeper woods activity would be the case. Even burial. A favorite "spot."

Finally I think, and rightly so, the police have altered the facts. The location of the burns for example and possibly items of evidence only they and the perp know. This is making me a little queezy...

 

[sunsetbeach]

Ok. So looking at these reports.....So back in June there was two men on the side of the road with the hood of their car up....the jogger passed them, then they came for her....
Didn't I read a similar suspicion person/vehicle report in the NEW Landmark of something very similar either the day of or right after Vanessa's murder? (Susp. person w/hood up on or near Brooks Station) I'm at work so I can't look right now...someone go look...if memory is correct...I think I read that. Could be nothing..coincidence...or could be something. JMO. Forgive me if I'm wrong. :angel:

You are correct, the call came in @ 5:07

 

[junebug85]

I've been thinking about whether Vanessa would have stopped to help someone having car trouble etc vs being suddenly taken over by surprise. I live nearby but also like Vanessa lived in NYC for several years. I was always on guard and super cautious in NYC. Always aware of my surroundings, carried mace, etc etc... then I would come home for a visit and feel safe and let my guard down because I wasn't in the city anymore. When visiting my parents, I would go for walks in our neighborhood with my earbuds in, use my phone and just generally not pay much attention. I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa was the same way and that she maybe she wouldn't have thought twice about helping someone. It just breaks my heart that this happened in her safe place

 

[zoso]

Having the hood open on your car would be a good way to justify being on the roadside as a cover, but it would also attract LE. A risk maybe the perp was willing to take with so much line of site in either direction.

 

[Madeleine74]

If anyone has a daughter or niece, arm them with pepper spray AND a training class on how to use it safely AND strongly encourage them to stay in populated areas or at least run with someone else (ideally a few others) if going off into any area where they are out of eyesight of others.

Saying, "be careful" won't give them the tools they need. My 80-something yr old mother still tells me to "be careful." I don't even think she's aware of it anymore, it's right up there with "have a nice day."

 

[Kittybunny]

I am very curious as to why they are looking for a vehicle in this case when it could be someone who lives on Brooks Station Rd within walking distance. Someone who had seen her several or many times before. I mean there are 0 eyewitnesses to seeing a vehicle yet we do know cars were on the road that day as one poster here was on that road around the time this happened. It was quite unnerving to him/her to learn that info but even he/she didn't see anything unusual.

Then the other day someone here linked an article about a couple of attempted abductions in the area.

Northborough is 19.6 miles from Brooks Station Road and Westborough is 23.7 miles.

I guess I am just wondering if they think VM's case could be connected to these other two unsolved cases. One was jogging and the other walking.

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/06/men_try_to_abduct_women_in_sep.html

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/06/police_release_sketch_of_suspe.html

Anything is possible but I am still thinking the perp lives on that road and he got there the same way he left ... by foot through the woods. He knows the area and knew he would not be seen.

That's a good question. Interesting on the other attempted abductions. One other thing that could be possible is that there are tire tracks in the grass nearby/on the cart path that look fresh? I don't know whether they would show up or not. But I agree that it seems very likely that he could live nearby, so they must have some evidence to the contrary or maybe just trying to cover all the bases by identifying potential witnesses as well as suspects.

And hello everyone, been here following along since the beginning. So sad. I lean towards crime of opportunity, but someone that could've spotted her before on her route as well. Not sold on any connection to Katrina's case, the MOs seem a little different.

To me, the oddest thing is the burning. I think it is a big clue as to the perp identity, way of thinking, motive, etc...but what it is, I don't know!

Great discussion and sleuthing.

 

[Parch]

I've seen it mentioned that if she was leaving for her jog when she was grabbed, that she probably would have been jogging on the opposite side of the road. However, what if she was on her way back home.. Maybe she jogged to the store and grabbed a drink (as police stated somewhere that they thought she was at the store earlier) perhaps someone saw her there and followed her, or passed her and waited at the Connors Rd inlet.. If it were someone she may have exchanged words with, even a "hello" at the store, she would've been familiar enough with them to stop if they asked her for help? Just a thought.. I hope they check out the surveillance for all the cars at the store in that time frame..

 

[Madeleine74]

The perp obviously knows about DNA and forensics -- enough at least to know DNA links many perps to their victims. This perp took some measures to obliterate or obscure his DNA. So he's not a complete Luddite. But every murder scene potentially has something to tell the professionals. Supposedly there is no such thing as a completely error-free murder. Murderers make mistakes. It's impossible to remove every spec of evidence linking a perp to victim, so it comes down to how thorough a scene is processed, how thorough the body is processed, the scene itself and what environmental factors are in play and also a measure of luck too.

I suspect it will be a tip from someone associated with the perp or someone who learns of something that may lead LE to the perp, if not something forensic. Otherwise it could well be a long wait.