MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thank you, jbbb. So organized enough to pick the spot, the time, his mark, not be seen, before murdering her. Then too disorganized to destroy all the evidence, considering his DNA has to be all over scene if he was beat up right there.

Seems young and an idiot, by those lights.

Exactly...disorganized in the crime but seemingly organized in the target. Which is exactly one of the reasons (at least in my mind) it points to someone who is familiar with the area, but wasn't planning to murder her. Then they tried to make it look random by taking her back to a spot she would have been jogging by.

If he picked her up in a truck say around 120 pm, they wouldn't have been concerned about being seen, cause they weren't planning a crime, and when the dropped her off, they took the chance in a place along her "route" that would be most accessible to him.

(Just theories of course)
 
FindHg: I don't think he intended to kill her. I agree with Think Hard that he may have known her well enough to meet her but then something happened and he had a body to dispose of. I don't think she was a "mark".
 
Exactly...disorganized in the crime but seemingly organized in the target. Which is exactly one of the reasons (at least in my mind) it points to someone who is familiar with the area, but wasn't planning to murder her. Then they tried to make it look random by taking her back to a spot she would have been jogging by.

If he picked her up in a truck say around 120 pm, they wouldn't have been concerned about being seen, cause they weren't planning a crime, and when the dropped her off, they took the chance in a place along her "route" that would be most accessible to him.

(Just theories of course)

Keep em coming, ThinkHard. It's good. Okay, so why if he's familiar with her wouldn't he take her far away where she'd be harder to find if he had her in his truck. He wouldn't be able to control anyone seeing his truck.

I guess LE would be checking on recently detailed trucks just the same.

I don't see Vanessa, with her life in the city, wanting to make illicit rendezvous in the pines, she'd like to fit in during a jog, with a bus to catch back to NYC.
 
If he picked her up and anyone saw them together, that may well be one of the 1000 tips or leads that police have received, which means it will only be a matter of time before the police will identify him as a POI. Maybe they are letting him make a mistake or maybe for some other reason, they want to be very careful to have all the details of the crime worked out. If it is someone from the area, that is going to very unsettling and upsetting to lots of people, I would suspect.
 
Keep em coming, ThinkHard. It's good. Okay, so why if he's familiar with her wouldn't he take her far away where she'd be harder to find if he had her in his truck. He wouldn't be able to control anyone seeing his truck.

I guess LE would be checking on recently detailed trucks just the same.

I don't see Vanessa, with her life in the city, wanting to make illicit rendezvous in the pines, she'd like to fit in during a jog, with a bus to catch back to NYC.

Maybe that is why he got mad and did what he did. Maybe he wanted more from it than she did and she let him know he couldn't expect it to go anywhere. Just thinking out of the box.
 
Maybe that is why he got mad and did what he did. Maybe he wanted more from it than she did and she let him know he couldn't expect it to go anywhere. Just thinking out of the box.

I believe Vanessa went out to run. There seems to be absolutely no reason to think she was meeting up with a man, not her, not there, not then.

The notions that she brought it on, she knew him, things got rough, it may be easier to fathom because it makes people feel safer and in control, in a "like I wouldn't that way" but it's a theory that may cloud the view.
 
I believe Vanessa went out to run. There seems to be absolutely no reason to think she was meeting up with a man, not her, not there, not then.

The notions that she brought it on, she knew him, things got rough, it may be easier to fathom because it makes people feel safer and in control, in a "like I wouldn't that way" but it's a theory that may cloud the view.
HG, I am not saying that at all. I don't think Vanessa brought it on, things got rough, etc. I just think all the evidence does not seem to be cohesive. This person was terrible at not leaving clues. Like he really didn't worry about leaving clues, if there are 1000 tips to find him. He doesn't sound like a guy who knows how to disappear without getting caught. That is why it seems like there has to be more of a back story. If he were a repeat offender, I can't imagine choosing a dusty little community where everyone knows all 10 people in town and what they do everyday.
 
It's not my number one theory, but I haven't seen anything to rule out just random bad luck. A predator who just happened to be in town for work (a delivery truck, maybe, or attending that funeral, for instance) who just happened to see her and follow her. Yeah, it looks targeted, but a person like that is always on the hunt
 
HG, I am not saying that at all. I don't think Vanessa brought it on, things got rough, etc. I just think all the evidence does not seem to be cohesive. This person was terrible at not leaving clues. Like he really didn't worry about leaving clues, if there are 1000 tips to find him. He doesn't sound like a guy who knows how to disappear without getting caught. That is why it seems like there has to be more of a back story. If he were a repeat offender, I can't imagine choosing a dusty little community where everyone knows all 10 people in town and what they do everyday.

I know you didn't. I'm just think it through out loud. Don't let me stop you from doing the same, because how you see this as you just posted is great to know and gives context.
 
It's always the little details that we are not privy to that bug me..... I thinking about her being burned..... wouldn't the coroner know if the burns happened (hate to say this) while she was alive, or after she was deceased. If after deceased, then it seems like evidence covering, but if before, then it takes on a different meaning...

ETA: wonder if there have ever been any reports of any animals ever being tortured/sacrificed by fire...
 
It's always the little details that we are not privy to that bug me..... I thinking about her being burned..... wouldn't the coroner know if the burns happened (hate to say this) while she was alive, or after she was deceased. If after deceased, then it seems like evidence covering, but if before, then it takes on a different meaning...

ETA: wonder if there have ever been any reports of any animals ever being tortured/sacrificed by fire...

Agree about the burning part. Either way, setting her on fire out in a quasi public place is high risk, off the wall behavior...jmo
 
Maybe, maybe not. Whether they do or don't though, I doubt we would hear about this information or any leads they were pursuing with that information. Also if she was texting someone who didn't have a contracted self phone but rather a "burner phone" it would make it difficult to figure out who she was texting, even if they knew she was texting someone.
Or if she was using some type of app to text or communicate with others. I'm not sure how easy that would be to trace if you didn't have the phone.
 
It's always the little details that we are not privy to that bug me..... I thinking about her being burned..... wouldn't the coroner know if the burns happened (hate to say this) while she was alive, or after she was deceased. If after deceased, then it seems like evidence covering, but if before, then it takes on a different meaning...

ETA: wonder if there have ever been any reports of any animals ever being tortured/sacrificed by fire...

There were a few incidents about ten years ago. None of them seem to have made it into any news outlet I can cite, because the person(s) involved was(were) a minor(s). Not in Princeton itself but in the surrounding towns. The incident I have direct knowledge of was in West Boylston and I think another one was in Shrewsbury.

But I haven't heard of anything since.
 
Or if she was using some type of app to text or communicate with others. I'm not sure how easy that would be to trace if you didn't have the phone.

Is it possible the phone was kept for the sole reason of that ping, to try to distract the search in another direction, but from what?
 
Agree about the burning part. Either way, setting her on fire out in a quasi public place is high risk, off the wall behavior...jmo

Agreed, risky. For a forest fire in fact. Was she, in fact, set on fire?
I can tell you we are in the worst drought here in recorded history. In a heavily wooded area, unless he had a fire truck, I don't see how he put it out.
Locals can say how dry it is in in Princeton, but I am not aware of any town not under water restrictions either out there or here in Eastern MA.
The scorch marks I saw in a video, I still say were from an old brush fire on dead trees. And where people say the ground was scorched I see green.

All I have seen in MSM is that she had burns on her feet, hands and head. We don't know the extent of those burns.
It could well be torturing with a lit cigarette for all we know.


MOO
 
That last tip at 3:18pm really really stands out to me. I was once followed by a man in a pick up truck. Now I consider myself good at reading people, am accustomed to nefarious characters and can distinguish them instantly (crackhead, heroin addict, pimp, pervert, etc etc), and learned to handle myself at an early age. That one incident was the ONLY time in my entire life where the hair on the back of my neck stood up. The night of the hunter. Listen, I do not control the hairs on the back of my neck!!
The irony being, this neighborhood was yuppie heaven. Now this was ironic, being where Im from, that I would move to this city and be scared of someone. I imagine thats how vanessa felt, being home for the weekend from NYC. Like, there is nothing to worry about here. This is an afflent area, I know this area well, people that dont belong here just arent going to come around here and try any crap like that. But they do! This man I had the encounter with, I would say he didnt live in the neighborhood but was familiar with it, obviously.

There are more details, but I dont wanna ramble on. Luckily I happened upon my apartment building (a moderate sized building), disappeared inside, and that was that. I never saw him again. Come to think of it, it was a white pick-up (IIRC). heh

I recall hovering in my apartment for awhile (in the dark), thinking that some woman would be killed that night. He would keep looking, I knew that for fact. And it never once occurred to me to call the police. Because technically, nothing had happened.

1) I dont think vanessa's perp was from the area, he was familiar with it. He was hunting women, and to a relative outsider, this stretch of road looked secluded. He knows its affluent and has seen the women running in the area.

2) Many men drive pick-ups, but the color white is very uncommon, IMO. If LE reviews hundreds of hours of surveillance footage from gas stations, they could easily spot someone driving a white pick-up.

3) There was two suspicious vehicles that sunday. The white pick-up, and the car pulled over with the hood up and/or "parked in the woods". Maybe they were the same vehicle?? we dont know enough on that end. Is a pick up truck conducive to abduction or murder??

4) <modsnip>

5) The burning of the feet really baffles me. Wth kinda evidence is on someone's feet??? That hints at sadistic amusement, a weird loner. "Look at these pretty feet, Im going to burn these feet". I could understand why he would burn her hands (fingernails with dna). Her face though?? Okay, maybe she bit him. But her feet??!

<modsnip>

But yeah, that last tip really stands out to me....hope my little anecdote made sense.

This person is semi-local, low income, single, weird, and planned to abduct a woman. And works in construction or some other hands on seasonal work.
 
Keep em coming, ThinkHard. It's good. Okay, so why if he's familiar with her wouldn't he take her far away where she'd be harder to find if he had her in his truck. He wouldn't be able to control anyone seeing his truck.

I guess LE would be checking on recently detailed trucks just the same.

I don't see Vanessa, with her life in the city, wanting to make illicit rendezvous in the pines, she'd like to fit in during a jog, with a bus to catch back to NYC.

If someone wasn't intending to kill her they probably wouldn't want her body on them for long and if think trying to cover up the crime by making it look like something else might have seemed like his best bet. Thus bringing her back to a spot she could have been grabbed at on her run. Also if he did know her, some level of remorse might have made him want her body found so her family would have closer. It doesn't seem like much attempt was made to hide the body, and I think someone planning this out ahead of time, rather then quickly thinking of a plan after an "accident" would have perhaps led to a more thorough disposal of the body.

Regarding meeting up with someone. There are many possibilities, here are a few...1.) it could be someone who is a peer that she knew from growing up, maybe they were struggling with something and she was trying to be a friend. 2.) perhaps there was a peer from growing up that she had an old fling with back in the day but it had been rekindled and she didn't want to tell her parents till it got "serious". 3.) perhaps she was involved with someone a little older then her, perhaps smart and handsome, but married and hence why she hadn't told anyone about this person.

I'm also not suggesting they were getting meeting up in the woods, rather then she could have been picked up in a car where they went in sat to talk for a while...perhaps in an empty parking lot...like the one at the mountain barn (where her cell pinged at 2:25).

Yes Vanessa was smart and educated and attractive....but everyone wants love and even the best girls fall for the wrong person sometimes (usually at least once in their life), so I wouldn't put it past just about anyone.

Also I just want to add, while I don't know Vanessa personally, but as someone in a similar demographic who grew up next door to Princeton (within the same school district), and who also moved to NYC for about 5 years after undergrad for grad school and my first job.....the only reason I came home as frequently as twice a month....was when I was seeing a boy back home.

Living in NYC at 27, coming home twice a month to see family only seems like a lot, it wouldn't surprise me if there was something else drawing her home so frequently.

Finally, I noticed on the interview question a from the video above, They asked about boyfriends....and the cop said he wasn't going to get into Miss Marcottes personal affairs....the dad had been adamant she wasn't seeing anyone....so the answer given above made me think that answer to that question is probably a bit more complicated and police have perhaps phone or SM records to indicate such.
 
I believe Vanessa went out to run. There seems to be absolutely no reason to think she was meeting up with a man, not her, not there, not then.

The notions that she brought it on, she knew him, things got rough, it may be easier to fathom because it makes people feel safer and in control, in a "like I wouldn't that way" but it's a theory that may cloud the view.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Vanessa was having rough sex in the woods and the guy got carried away. I certainly know that's not the way I would view a possible scenario for this crime, and I didn't pick up that others were suggesting that either.

The thing is the spot is so random, and while people run that road, and I really don't see a scenario where someone would just be hiding out in the woods to grab a random runner, it just really makes no logical sense to me for many reasons.

Which leaves to me the only sensible option, and that is this wasn't random, so either her perp picked her, or they knew each other.
 
Agreed, risky. For a forest fire in fact. Was she, in fact, set on fire?
I can tell you we are in the worst drought here in recorded history. In a heavily wooded area, unless he had a fire truck, I don't see how he put it out.
Locals can say how dry it is in in Princeton, but I am not aware of any town not under water restrictions either out there or here in Eastern MA.
The scorch marks I saw in a video, I still say were from an old brush fire on dead trees. And where people say the ground was scorched I see green.

All I have seen in MSM is that she had burns on her feet, hands and head. We don't know the extent of those burns.
It could well be torturing with a lit cigarette for all we know.


MOO

My hunch is the burns are from a blow torch that would have given him controlled flame to target specific areas.

The "burn" marks on the tree high up would also be consistent with burning by a blow torch....

However it's also possible she was burnt somewhere else and her body was dumped after the fact.

It feels personally though, almost like they wanted to wipe away her identity because they couldn't stand to see what they had done to her.
 
That last tip at 3:18pm really really stands out to me. I was once followed by a man in a pick up truck. Now I consider myself good at reading people, am accustomed to nefarious characters and can distinguish them instantly (crackhead, heroin addict, pimp, pervert, etc etc), and learned to handle myself at an early age. That one incident was the ONLY time in my entire life where the hair on the back of my neck stood up. The night of the hunter. Listen, I do not control the hairs on the back of my neck!!
The irony being, this neighborhood was yuppie heaven. Now this was ironic, being where Im from, that I would move to this city and be scared of someone. I imagine thats how vanessa felt, being home for the weekend from NYC. Like, there is nothing to worry about here. This is an afflent area, I know this area well, people that dont belong here just arent going to come around here and try any crap like that. But they do! This man I had the encounter with, I would say he didnt live in the neighborhood but was familiar with it, obviously.

There are more details, but I dont wanna ramble on. Luckily I happened upon my apartment building (a moderate sized building), disappeared inside, and that was that. I never saw him again. Come to think of it, it was a white pick-up (IIRC). heh

I recall hovering in my apartment for awhile (in the dark), thinking that some woman would be killed that night. He would keep looking, I knew that for fact. And it never once occurred to me to call the police. Because technically, nothing had happened.

1) I dont think vanessa's perp was from the area, he was familiar with it. He was hunting women, and to a relative outsider, this stretch of road looked secluded. He knows its affluent and has seen the women running in the area.

2) Many men drive pick-ups, but the color white is very uncommon, IMO. If LE reviews hundreds of hours of surveillance footage from gas stations, they could easily spot someone driving a white pick-up.

3) There was two suspicious vehicles that sunday. The white pick-up, and the car pulled over with the hood up and/or "parked in the woods". Maybe they were the same vehicle?? we dont know enough on that end. Is a pick up truck conducive to abduction or murder??

4) <modsnip>

5) The burning of the feet really baffles me. Wth kinda evidence is on someone's feet??? That hints at sadistic amusement, a weird loner. "Look at these pretty feet, Im going to burn these feet". I could understand why he would burn her hands (fingernails with dna). Her face though?? Okay, maybe she bit him. But her feet??!

<modsnip>

But yeah, that last tip really stands out to me....hope my little anecdote made sense.

This person is semi-local, low income, single, weird, and planned to abduct a woman. And works in construction or some other hands on seasonal work.


Just one quick thing, regarding the video surveillance .... There aren't any gas stations in Princeton, the nearest one I can think of would be at the center of Holden, not sure how close ones in the direction of Westminster/hubbardston/Leominster since I never go that way for anything.

I don't think there's really any chance of video surveillance of the truck or man from Princeton unfortunately.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
75
Guests online
1,485
Total visitors
1,560

Forum statistics

Threads
606,658
Messages
18,207,708
Members
233,921
Latest member
audreyshura
Back
Top