MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[rosesfromangels]

Are any homes accessible from the cart path and, if so, how far from the road?

If VM were being chased by someone on the road, whether in a car or by foot, and there being little traffic on the road, might VM have taken a chance on trying to outrun her attacker -- running toward the nearest residence.

I don't know the answer to Roses' question about how long family members (VM's mother, aunt and uncle) have lived in Princeton, but assuming they've lived there long enough to be well acquainted with many of their neighbors, VM likely have felt comfortable running to a familiar residence for help.

If it's true that VM ran down the cart path away from her attacker but was outrun, that would suggest the killer is fit and probably young. Personally, I have pictured a young man out walking with a backpack, which could have included camping gear such as something to start a campfire.

You and I have a very similar guess of what the Perp looks like. Agree 100%

 

[ThinkHard]

There is no indication or any facts she had a secret relationship , meeting or on any drugs.

No one said there was. There is very little facts that are known in this case. Which until we know more to weed out specifics, leaves room for exploring possibilities and theories.

As I said, I've known people who are dead due heroin yet there daily life would have given ZERO indication to even their immediate family least of all observers that they had a drug problem, yet that was the reality of their lives.

 

[Tempura]

No one said there was. There is very little facts that are known in this case. Which until we know more to weed out specifics, leaves room for exploring possibilities and theories.

As I said, I've known people who are dead due heroin yet there daily life would have given ZERO indication to even their immediate family least of all observers that they had a drug problem, yet that was the reality of their lives.

IME there are clues that many people close to the addict choose to not pay attention to. Clues such as wearing long sleeves in hot weather, asking for money, instability in other areas of their life. A woman invested in her career, living in a high cost city, dedicated to her fitness, doesn't seem likely unless there were actual clues pointing toward an addiction.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you. Let's kill those theories right now and stop the victim blaming. Please.

I'm sorry but how is exploring other angles victim blaming? If she had an addiction is she not still a victim? Two fold actually?

You might not know the reality of addiction and have a certain view in your head about who this drug has effected and how people look and behave while on it, but I think the reality would very much surprise you. It is not the people you think. So while I'm certainly not saying VM had any addiction issues, as we have no proof to say she does....the thought only arised because she has a known history of chronic illness that may have involved Rx's for pain killers at some point....which is where these addictions often start from.

Exploring that angle is not victim blaming by any measure.

 

[ThinkHard]

Locals - where Vanessa's remains were found....is that within "ear shot" of someone hearing her if she were yelling? I'm trying to correlate this to figuring out if she were deceased by the time she got to this spot.

I can only give you my personal impressions. I remember being in Princeton to get breakfast sandwiches exactly one week after her murder, it was probably 11am, and we were sitting outside and I was niticing just how quiet Princeton is. That the only thing you really hear is the gentle breeze rustling the trees. And I kept thinking about VM. We drive down BSR after breakfast and I was surprised by how close the houses were to that path.....not close close, but it struck me if someone had screamed, in the quietness of Princeton, someone would have heard her.

Which is why I've always had trouble rapping my head the notion someone dragged her down that path, just seems to risky.

 

[ThinkHard]

Agree. When I saw the pictures, my immediate thought was "blow torch"; something a mechanic or welder would use.

This has been my thought since first learning of the fire. Gives control, allowing him to target parts, strong enough to cause damage, but won't catch the whole body on fire. Thus not taking the risk of smoke or flames bringing anyone to the crime scene sooner.

 

[ThinkHard]

Another question - does anyone know how long Vanessa's mom had been living in this town? I'm trying to figure out how long Vanessa had been coming to visit this area. I've heard no mention of her dad. Is he living, and if so where? Did Vanessa visit him often too, and how far is that from the mom's house?

Her aunt and uncle have been there for around 30 years I believe based on real estate transactions. No indication of how long mom had been living there. She grew up in Leominster, went to school in Worcester. Dad still lives in Leominster, had dinner with her the night before in Worcester. Parents are divorced but we don't know since when.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm sorry but how is exploring other angles victim blaming? If she had an addiction is she not still a victim? Two fold actually?

You might not know the reality of addiction and have a certain view in your head about who this drug has effected and how people look and behave while on it, but I think the reality would very much surprise you. It is not the people you think. So while I'm certainly not saying VM had any addiction issues, as we have no proof to say she does....the thought only arised because she has a known history of chronic illness that may have involved Rx's for pain killers at some point....which is where these addictions often start from.

Exploring that angle is not victim blaming by any measure.

I think it's wise to keep examining whatever we can.

I agree that people who are addicted to drugs can be a surprise - your kid's teacher, the nice man next door, etc. However, I really, really don't think Vanessa was an addict. She visited her family regularly, for one thing. Addicts often (not always) pull away from family. I get the the vibe that her family has been with her every step of the way with her health care - and I think they were likely involved with whatever care she was receiving, including pain killers. I'm not sure Crohn's patients get a lot of pain killers - I honestly don't know. But Vanessa was well-respected at work, was involved with charities, traveled home frequently to see her mom, kept up her health and appearance, and had a healthy look about her despite health issues. None of that makes me think of drugs....with the acknowledgement that many drug users hide their usage well and that drug addiction is a big problem in our country. I think Vanessa was what she appeared to be - a lovely young lady.

jmopinion

 

[rosesfromangels]

This has been my thought since first learning of the fire. Gives control, allowing him to target parts, strong enough to cause damage, but won't catch the whole body on fire. Thus not taking the risk of smoke or flames bringing anyone to the crime scene sooner.

In addition to mechanics and welders, plumbers also use blow torches to fix copper pipes.

 

[Mskin]

Agree. Being a jogger and being hooked on pain killers don't add up for me. However, I'm glad we are exploring every angle.

Agree agree agree agree....


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[rosesfromangels]

I did a quick search thinking about this blow torch possibility some of us have anchored on. The majority of plumbing, welding, and mechanic shops closest to the mother's house would be in Leominster; the town where her dad lives. I think we need to look closer at the Leominster connection as well.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think it's wise to keep examining whatever we can.

I agree that people who are addicted to drugs can be a surprise - your kid's teacher, the nice man next door, etc. However, I really, really don't think Vanessa was an addict. She visited her family regularly, for one thing. Addicts often (not always) pull away from family. I get the the vibe that her family has been with her every step of the way with her health care - and I think they were likely involved with whatever care she was receiving, including pain killers. I'm not sure Crohn's patients get a lot of pain killers - I honestly don't know. But Vanessa was well-respected at work, was involved with charities, traveled home frequently to see her mom, kept up her health and appearance, and had a healthy look about her despite health issues. None of that makes me think of drugs....with the acknowledgement that many drug users hide their usage well and that drug addiction is a big problem in our country. I think Vanessa was what she appeared to be - a lovely young lady.

jmopinion

I don't think it's likely either. Though I don't think it's impossible.

My mom had just thrown it out there, and honestly caught me off guard, but since it was an angle we hadn't discussed I thought I'd toss it out here.

 

[ThinkHard]

I did a quick search thinking about this blow torch possibility some of us have anchored on. The majority of plumbing, welding, and mechanic shops closest to the mother's house would be in Leominster; the town where her dad lives. I think we need to look closer at the Leominster connection as well.

Not disputing that the Leominster angle shouldn't be pursued.

But just wanted to say that as a local, if I saw a blow torch in someone's car or truck bed, I wouldn't think much of it, so I think while certainly most people wouldn't have one in them, it is possible someone could have had one in them. They can Also be purchased at any big box store.

 

[ThinkHard]

Oh btw I was just thinking....my familiarity with blow torches comes from a background in boating. In paticular they are great for slicing line by heating up a paint scraper because it melts both sides and prevents fraying.

It was summer and there are lakes in the area, I can see another reason for someon having a blow torch on them (in there vehicle) is if they were a boater.

VM spent summers visiting family on a lake in Westminster, which is a town that boarders Princeton. She had friends there, knew people there....perhaps the person knew her from those summers in the lake?

 

[Rocky1]

Locals - where Vanessa's remains were found....is that within "ear shot" of someone hearing her if she were yelling? I'm trying to correlate this to figuring out if she were deceased by the time she got to this spot.

The closest driveway, just guessing, is 100 ft south, and across the road and about 300 ft long... set way back off of the road. I would say if someone was yelling loudly, it would be heard, but if someone had their hand over her mouth, then no.

 

[Rocky1]

The pieces are starting to come together in my amateur profile.
I agree with said profiler. I think the burns were post mortem, and the oxygenation levels of the tissues will confirm or refute that.
He had this lay in wait maneuver well planned and prepared, and it was swiftly executed. We know she was alive long enough to fight, God Bless her. I hope she did some damage to this miscreant perp.
But he must have subdued her quickly before she could make much noise. A taser or a blow to the head?
Either he lured her in to the bushes, "can you help me, my girlfriend fell and is hurt" while hiking, or he pulled her in to a van and then finished his ritual off where she was found.
None thing we haven't explored are connections to the father, anyone living near his house where she visited. Even people at the Chop house from the night before. We have been focused on connections to mom, we should look where the dad lives too.

All great possibilities, but if I see a van, I see a secondary crime scene, and it's nowhere around that area. Although secluded, it's not all that secluded, and if anyone knows Princeton, there are plenty of dirt roads that don't see cars all day long.
The father lives in a residential neighborhood, with single family homes (mainly ranch style) and average yards about 1 acre or so. Short driveways. If you looked out the window, you could see a half dozen homes or so.

 

[ThinkHard]

All great possibilities, but if I see a van, I see a secondary crime scene, and it's nowhere around that area. Although secluded, it's not all that secluded, and if anyone knows Princeton, there are plenty of dirt roads that don't see cars all day long.
The father lives in a residential neighborhood, with single family homes (mainly ranch style) and average yards about 1 acre or so. Short driveways. If you looked out the window, you could see a half dozen homes or so.

I think they meant in terms of the perp could have come from/ known her from Leominster.....not that the crime took place in Leominster.

 

[Rocky1]

I think they meant in terms of the perp could have come from/ known her from Leominster.....not that the crime took place in Leominster.

Go back and read the last sentence of the ops post that I responded to.
I have no idea who is suggesting the crime took place in leominster, when she left her mothers house at 1 pm in princeton. It would be rather hard to be in two places at one time.

 

[ThinkHard]

Go back and read the last sentence of the ops post that I responded to.
I have no idea who is suggesting the crime took place in leominster, when she left her mothers house at 1 pm in princeton. It would be rather hard to be in two places at one time.

Perhaps I missed the point you were trying to make with the comment. Could you explain what you were implying?

I took it to mean you were implying that would have been the secondary crime scene.

 

[Kickoff61]

There will be Justice . It is only a matter of time.