MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Max17]

From a reporter https://twitter.com/julimcdonald

* Shirley Chief Goulden said incident yest involving runner is resolved.. Found driver; really was trying to offer water to the woman #WCVB
* Driver is a retired veteran who transports people w/ special needs.. Which explains man in back seat #WCVB
* Police found the driver and went to his home (thanks to runner remembering partial plate); there was a case of water on front steps #WCVB

 

[jbbb]

I love when it turns out this way!

 

[Steleheart]

http://www.telegram.com/news/20160901/shirley-pd-man-in-van-not-suspicious-after-all

Shirley PD: Man in van not suspicious after all

"Police Chief Thomas Goulden detailed the mixup in a statement released Thursday morning: "The investigation confirms that the operator did make contact with the jogger and did offer her a bottle of water because she appeared to be dehydrated from running on a warm day. The operator did not know that he had caused fear in the female jogger and was very apologetic that this act of kindness turned into a news story. I met with both the operator and the jogger this morning and this case has been resolved to both parties liking."

So back to my original thought. - What was he thinking? I am only 60 and I have been around long enough to know that if you see a woman alone leave her alone. If she appears to be in trouble call 911 and park somewhere that they can find you. I'm sorry, if you want to help someone call someone authorized to help.
Dude. We're old guys and we're scary to women alone. In a van no less, SMH.

MOO

 

[ThinkHard]

I had a feeling that story was going to end up just being a jogger on heightened alert, and not wanting to take any chances.

I can't say as I blame her, as a woman you know your chance of getting out of a situation is limited, and playing nice doesn't always work in your favor. When you get that gut instinct something isn't right, it's best to get yourself out of the situation.

I'd rather be wrong and rude, then wrong and dead.

That said, don't assume the worst in people, but do listen to that fight or flight adrenaline when you feel it kicking in.

 

[FindHG]

[video=youtube;oJtBx8EUOmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJtBx8EUOmY[/video]

 

[BluegrassBuckeye]

http://www.telegram.com/news/20160901/shirley-pd-man-in-van-not-suspicious-after-all

Shirley PD: Man in van not suspicious after all

"Police Chief Thomas Goulden detailed the mixup in a statement released Thursday morning: "The investigation confirms that the operator did make contact with the jogger and did offer her a bottle of water because she appeared to be dehydrated from running on a warm day. The operator did not know that he had caused fear in the female jogger and was very apologetic that this act of kindness turned into a news story. I met with both the operator and the jogger this morning and this case has been resolved to both parties liking."

So back to my original thought. - What was he thinking? I am only 60 and I have been around long enough to know that if you see a woman alone leave her alone. If she appears to be in trouble call 911 and park somewhere that they can find you. I'm sorry, if you want to help someone call someone authorized to help.
Dude. We're old guys and we're scary to women alone. In a van no less, SMH.

MOO

It breaks my heart that in the world in which we live, you must be so cautious as to not offer me a drink, and me so cautious not to take one.

 

[Steleheart]

It breaks my heart that in the world in which we live, you must be so cautious as to not offer me a drink, and me so cautious not to take one.

Older knowledgeable men used to be safe.

Mostly we are, but not perceived that way. The world has changed.

MOO

 

[BluegrassBuckeye]

Older knowledgeable men used to be safe.

Mostly we are, but not perceived that way. The world has changed.

MOO

Maybe it's just me, but I'm 33 and, if I had to choose an "unsafe" age group of men, it'd be 25-45. I'm going to get a little Freudian and say this is because I had an older father (he was 42 when I was born) and he had the kindest heart, so maybe I'm biased in my generalization. Of course so many other things are in play regarding our instincts and our fight or flight responses: facial features, body language, social cues, our own history, etc. I think those register higher for me than age.

 

[Tssiemer]

I just don't trust anyone ever. I'm still alive and survived a mugging so I'm doing something right.


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[carbuff]

It's been a very hot summer here compared to what we're used to, and there have been many cases of dehydration, heat exhaustion, etc. I'm not surprised a kind person would think someone might need water. I suppose I'd have been just as alarmed as she was, but it grieves my heart that we've had to become so oriented to survival that we have to be suspicious of kindness.


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[Mskin]

It's been a very hot summer here compared to what we're used to, and there have been many cases of dehydration, heat exhaustion, etc. I'm not surprised a kind person would think someone might need water. I suppose I'd have been just as alarmed as she was, but it grieves my heart that we've had to become so oriented to survival that we have to be suspicious of kindness.


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She was 5 minutes into her run. It doesn't happen. Its out of place... If it happened.


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[donttt]

hi, this is my first post here ever, but i'm a huge lurker. i live minutes from where this happened, (but not princeton) and i'm also a girl around vanessa's age. before this happened, there were 2 times that stand out to me in the last 3 years that i felt very nervous about someone's intentions.

the first was about 3 years ago when i was driving and waiting to turn at an intersection, and a man walked by approaching from the passenger side, so i smiled like you know 'i am letting you walk by and i won't hit you don't worry'. when he reached the driver's side, he walked over and knocked on my window. ugh. so i rolled it down like 3 inches (now that seems like too much), and he said his car broke down and could he get a ride to a gas station. this was 3 years ago, so i was even younger than i am now, and i was alone. this seemed ridiculous that this man would ask me for a ride. i said "it's really close", and pointed to the direction he was headed (this is true, it is RIGHT there, but not in eyesight). he said "please i'm really tired". i said "yeah but it's right there" and pointed again. then i drove away. maybe he really was tired, but we were also like 30 seconds away from the public safety building, so if he didn't believe me he could have gone there if he was THAT tired. he was probably just ignorant to how it felt for me for him to ask me for a ride, but i don't know and that's fine. a different girl might have been like "ugh" in her head, and then let him in.

the other time was more recent, about a year ago. it was just i walking by myself and this car drove by and then pulled over up ahead of me. i'm always on edge when i'm alone, so i took note of this car and also that it pulled over in the one spot that there was nothing. there are a bunch of businesses around there (one i was walking from, to another), but not in this spot. i normally walk very fast, but i slowed waaaay down when i saw this, and i moved over so i was a lot further from the road than i originally was. in my mind i guess i was ready to run if i had to but i kept going, because this is a nice area and i'm being crazy. once i did my move over and slow down, the car pulled back out into traffic.

maybe everything was normal and i was just paranoid. i'm usually told i'm just paranoid, because i'm always okay (but i'm always too scared to not be okay).

this is a safe area, but when someone is being weird to a girl who is by herself, usually we put our guards up. i imagine vanessa did too, if she had the chance. it just kills me that this happened here. every day since, i've been trying to imagine a situation where i let someone get close enough to me to hurt me. honestly, they would have to sneak up on me (hit me before i had a chance to react), or i'd have to know them.

i wish i could just rewind and help her.

 

[FindHG]

hi, this is my first post here ever, but i'm a huge lurker. i live minutes from where this happened, (but not princeton) and i'm also a girl around vanessa's age. before this happened, there were 2 times that stand out to me in the last 3 years that i felt very nervous about someone's intentions.

the first was about 3 years ago when i was driving and waiting to turn at an intersection, and a man walked by approaching from the passenger side, so i smiled like you know 'i am letting you walk by and i won't hit you don't worry'. when he reached the driver's side, he walked over and knocked on my window. ugh. so i rolled it down like 3 inches (now that seems like too much), and he said his car broke down and could he get a ride to a gas station. this was 3 years ago, so i was even younger than i am now, and i was alone. this seemed ridiculous that this man would ask me for a ride. i said "it's really close", and pointed to the direction he was headed (this is true, it is RIGHT there, but not in eyesight). he said "please i'm really tired". i said "yeah but it's right there" and pointed again. then i drove away. maybe he really was tired, but we were also like 30 seconds away from the public safety building, so if he didn't believe me he could have gone there if he was THAT tired. he was probably just ignorant to how it felt for me for him to ask me for a ride, but i don't know and that's fine. a different girl might have been like "ugh" in her head, and then let him in.

the other time was more recent, about a year ago. it was just i walking by myself and this car drove by and then pulled over up ahead of me. i'm always on edge when i'm alone, so i took note of this car and also that it pulled over in the one spot that there was nothing. there are a bunch of businesses around there (one i was walking from, to another), but not in this spot. i normally walk very fast, but i slowed waaaay down when i saw this, and i moved over so i was a lot further from the road than i originally was. in my mind i guess i was ready to run if i had to but i kept going, because this is a nice area and i'm being crazy. once i did my move over and slow down, the car pulled back out into traffic.

maybe everything was normal and i was just paranoid. i'm usually told i'm just paranoid, because i'm always okay (but i'm always too scared to not be okay).

this is a safe area, but when someone is being weird to a girl who is by herself, usually we put our guards up. i imagine vanessa did too, if she had the chance. it just kills me that this happened here. every day since, i've been trying to imagine a situation where i let someone get close enough to me to hurt me. honestly, they would have to sneak up on me (hit me before i had a chance to react), or i'd have to know them.

i wish i could just rewind and help her.

donttt, thank you for taking the time to lurk and to pitch in, now. Glad you're here and welcome to thread. I hope it helps you. It counts for a lot on WS, to have a local take on things and awareness, like you have. You seem deeply touched besides being nearby. I'm sorry.

 

[FindHG]

Police looking for man who followed Watertown jogger
By Samantha J. Gross, Boston Globe
9 02 16

"Mount Auburn Street...

6:15 p.m. on Aug. 25...

unknown man got “extremely close”...

asked her questions at two separate points during her jog,"...

skinny...

around 6 [ft]...

brown eyes...

dark, “fluffy and curly”

white T shirt

khaki shorts

~

cargo shorts? gym shorts? what material?

 

[donttt]

Police looking for man who followed Watertown jogger
By Samantha J. Gross, Boston Globe
9 02 16

"Mount Auburn Street...

6:15 p.m. on Aug. 25...

unknown man got “extremely close”...

asked her questions at two separate points during her jog,"...

skinny...

around 6 [ft]...

brown eyes...

dark, “fluffy and curly”

white T shirt

khaki shorts

~

cargo shorts? gym shorts? what material?

do you think he's still in MA? i was thinking he would be active elsewhere or inactive here until he felt "safe".

 

[FindHG]

do you think he's still in MA? i was thinking he would be active elsewhere or inactive here until he felt "safe".

There are more than a few WSers who would have better guesses on that than I, dontt. LE suggests being heads up.

 

[ThinkHard]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm 33 and, if I had to choose an "unsafe" age group of men, it'd be 25-45. I'm going to get a little Freudian and say this is because I had an older father (he was 42 when I was born) and he had the kindest heart, so maybe I'm biased in my generalization. Of course so many other things are in play regarding our instincts and our fight or flight responses: facial features, body language, social cues, our own history, etc. I think those register higher for me than age.

I don't pay attention to people's age as a threat. For me it's more of a gut instinct thing....but even more so for me it's about recognizing my vulnerability....i.e. Is anyone else around, where are my exit points, could I get away if I needed to, would someone hear me scream?

There have been exactly 3 times in my life I've been afraid that I would become the victim of violence.

Once walking from Greenwich village to Washington square park with my BF at about 11 at night on a Saturday, and we took a cut through. As we were walking down the sidewalk we saw a group of about 4 guys ahead. I saw them look in our direction say something to each other and then two moved so they were standing against the building....meaning of we staying on that side walk we would have to walk through them with two on each side....my gut told me they would jump as as soon as we got in btw them.....without speaking my BF and I both instinctively switched to the other side of the street and picked up our pace.

The second time I was getting off a bus at 10 at night. There was a guy standing across the street from the bus stop. I started walking toward home and I saw him cross the street and start walking behind me. I picked up my pace, so did he....I started to cross the street....so did he....there was a median in the road and my thought was please have a taxi drive by PLEASE!!! Just as one did and I flagged it down, I felt his hand touch my arm and I thew myself in the street to stop the taxi and climbed inside.

The third time I was walking home alone at night and an old man tried to give me a ride home, I kept tell him no thank you and to go away, but he kept trying to tell me to get in and it wasn't safe for me to be walking alone....perhaps he was really just trying to be an nice old man....BUT I was also in a foreign country and though we could mostly understand each other, it was limited.....and I knew outside his car I could still run....but you get in someone's car and realize they are intent on harming you, it's too late and you've made yourself entirely too vulnerable.

 

[ThinkHard]

She was 5 minutes into her run. It doesn't happen. Its out of place... If it happened.


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But how would that guy know she was only five minutes into her run?

The guy was a helper and was just trying to be helpful. What's sad is that we are so I used to people not being helpful and just genuinely kind to strangers that we assume people have an alterior motive.

I can think of two time recently that I declined being helpful because of fear of how it might be perceived. One was at the grocery store. We have an autistic man that lives in our neighborhood. I saw him at the grocery store waiting and waiting on a bench, I so wanted to offer him a ride, but I didn't want to spook him. The second time was one a sudden summer storm started down pouring. I looked out the window and saw a teenager trying to stay dry by hiding in bushes across the street. I said to my husband, we should let him in...but my husband was like "we're not letting someone we don't know in our house" and then I kept pushing saying well let's open the garage for him? (But a car ended up coming and picking him up shortly after)

The point is, I think it's sad that our fears prohibit the level of kindness we extend to others.

 

[ThinkHard]

hi, this is my first post here ever, but i'm a huge lurker. i live minutes from where this happened, (but not princeton) and i'm also a girl around vanessa's age. before this happened, there were 2 times that stand out to me in the last 3 years that i felt very nervous about someone's intentions.

the first was about 3 years ago when i was driving and waiting to turn at an intersection, and a man walked by approaching from the passenger side, so i smiled like you know 'i am letting you walk by and i won't hit you don't worry'. when he reached the driver's side, he walked over and knocked on my window. ugh. so i rolled it down like 3 inches (now that seems like too much), and he said his car broke down and could he get a ride to a gas station. this was 3 years ago, so i was even younger than i am now, and i was alone. this seemed ridiculous that this man would ask me for a ride. i said "it's really close", and pointed to the direction he was headed (this is true, it is RIGHT there, but not in eyesight). he said "please i'm really tired". i said "yeah but it's right there" and pointed again. then i drove away. maybe he really was tired, but we were also like 30 seconds away from the public safety building, so if he didn't believe me he could have gone there if he was THAT tired. he was probably just ignorant to how it felt for me for him to ask me for a ride, but i don't know and that's fine. a different girl might have been like "ugh" in her head, and then let him in.

the other time was more recent, about a year ago. it was just i walking by myself and this car drove by and then pulled over up ahead of me. i'm always on edge when i'm alone, so i took note of this car and also that it pulled over in the one spot that there was nothing. there are a bunch of businesses around there (one i was walking from, to another), but not in this spot. i normally walk very fast, but i slowed waaaay down when i saw this, and i moved over so i was a lot further from the road than i originally was. in my mind i guess i was ready to run if i had to but i kept going, because this is a nice area and i'm being crazy. once i did my move over and slow down, the car pulled back out into traffic.

maybe everything was normal and i was just paranoid. i'm usually told i'm just paranoid, because i'm always okay (but i'm always too scared to not be okay).

this is a safe area, but when someone is being weird to a girl who is by herself, usually we put our guards up. i imagine vanessa did too, if she had the chance. it just kills me that this happened here. every day since, i've been trying to imagine a situation where i let someone get close enough to me to hurt me. honestly, they would have to sneak up on me (hit me before i had a chance to react), or i'd have to know them.

i wish i could just rewind and help her.

Welcome!

Just a couple of questions? Did the above incidents take place in the wachusett district (i.e. Holden, Paxton, Princeton, Rutland, Sterling)?

Also secondly to your point of in order for someone to get that close to you, they'd either have to stun you or know you.....

It's kind of the main reason I think she knew her attacker. I think it's one of the few ways he could have gotten her alone and vulnerable. (I still feel like the crime scene was staged)

 

[ThinkHard]

do you think he's still in MA? i was thinking he would be active elsewhere or inactive here until he felt "safe".

If you don't think he's in MA, then I'm assuming you believe he's a serial killer...

I don't really believe he was. I think it's much more likely (unfortunately) that they are a local.

Ps Watertown MAis a city, just outside Boston (Remember it's where the Boston marathon bomber (the younger one) was finally apprehended).

It's not near Princeton and area wise it's nothing like Princeton. I really think that story has nothing to do with the Princeton incident at all.

Growing up here and still living locally, I will tell you whenever this case has come up btw is (locals friends and I), we all (males and females) are thinking the same thing "oh god is this someone we graduated with" .... Or the sibling, cousin, father, uncle....of someone we graduated with?

It's creepy and it's unsettling.

I also know the collection of evidence in those woods was particularly difficult because there was a very hard overnight rain storm about 2 days after her death and that likely washed away some evidence.