MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Kickoff61]

The Vehicle abduction just isn't fitting. If someone has planned to abduct by vehicle to take her somewhere else out of town, that is their intent. (Out of the area) If she injured him in the attempt and it failed, it is difficult to imagine that he would switch his plans at the site to kill her right there, in the afternoon, when the entire plan was to abduct her (to be somewhere else).

**It seems he would be more apt to rush off in a hurry that it 'failed'. Not jump out of his vehicle leave it running or parked to be seen on the side of the road in the day time, do all this just off the road with vehicle in sight, then walk back possibly to get a torch from vehicle to cover up, still leaving vehicle there, and possibly bringing items to vehicle, etc etc.

It is too much, too long for this vehicle to be there. If this vehicle is his in this crime, it appears to me to be used in a different way for shorter time.

 

[Evey]

I've read her and Kv and ally all did some form of writing or blogging and were they active enough online to show some stranger their patterns? They could have stumbled about kv on some fitness blog or something and then saw vm getting on a bus to go to Princeton and followed or stalked her social media and found out she goes there weekly ans followed her a few times to see how easy it would be. If blogging or social media or jogging and their looks and public transportation are his way to find them then i would look and see what friends each have in common on social media. Ally I don't find related most likely but if they had one person all in common as a follower or any posts about someone following them that would be interesting. Also didn't see he black we photo but it could be makeup or dark circles from lack of sleep or health related.

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes, LE will have done a thorough crime scene investigation and would know a lot more about how this went down from that evidence , then we could ever know guessing. So, if it all happened in that way there only at that location with that vehicle there the entire time and the struggle or whether clothes were burnt etc, would be determined by what they examined.

 

[Evey]

To mean them knocking on doors shows they think it's a local and they've also as far as I know have never said they saw signs of a struggle by the road. Only struggle related injuries they never said happened by where she was found. I think she was taken somewhere else. And this guy may be a New York dude and knew they'd blame locals. This person likely knows her barely just in a she has talked to him naybe briefly but he's been stalking way longer. Did she post anything sexy near her death that could trigger him? Why did nobody hear screaming? Where was her phone or headphones?

 

[Evey]

Plus maybe he bought the SUV knowing it resembles a cop car and could fool people.or was le?

 

[Evey]

Correct me if I am wrong but DNA was found at both crime scenes meaning VMs and KVs. If this was the same guy these cases would have been linked immediately and we would know about it. Not linked. To me we don't even need to go into the specifics of all the other reasons why it is unlikely these cases are connected. Two DNA samples, they don't match. Am I way off base here?!

To my knowledge they haven't ruled out it being connected or not connected and to me that says they haven't tested the DNA cause they'd say since there's articles about a serial killer. They need to look for mutual friends and anything else to count the other DNA out so we know its two different people. Then again sometimes people work in twos but the amount of stuff in common is what makes me wonder. Also the way heeft her close to the road etc screams look st me. He isn't trying to hide it he's over confident he's experienced and the lighting her on fire could have just been interrupted cause maybe he was on lunch break and saw the time and had to stop. I want to know an exact timeline of when she left and when she died and when they reported it and when they found her so we can try to calculate how much time he had for it. He wants attention though and isn't trying to hide anything and is comfortable in the area.

 

[Kickoff61]

To my knowledge they haven't ruled out it being connected or not connected and to me that says they haven't tested the DNA cause they'd say since there's articles about a serial killer. They need to look for mutual friends and anything else to count the other DNA out so we know its two different people. Then again sometimes people work in twos but the amount of stuff in common is what makes me wonder. Also the way heeft her close to the road etc screams look st me. He isn't trying to hide it he's over confident he's experienced and the lighting her on fire could have just been interrupted cause maybe he was on lunch break and saw the time and had to stop. I want to know an exact timeline of when she left and when she died and when they reported it and when they found her so we can try to calculate how much time he had for it. He wants attention though and isn't trying to hide anything and is comfortable in the area.

Good points. I agree he could have had limited time, which is why I addressed he may have brought vehicle back to get items or bring means to do the fire - instead of on foot. (even if he was on foot in the beginning) Although this is only one of many scenarios. It could be wrong, along with others. The frustration is not knowing many facts.

 

[Kickoff61]

This could also be wrong, but it seems more likely he has seen her before. JMO

 

[Evey]

A kitchen torch is not the same as a blow torch. Also how would a kitchen employee have been able to overhear precisely where she lived and ran?

I mentioned it because it doesn't have to be someone from the place just someone who cooks or works near where he can take a cooking torch. This was wouldn't do as much damage and we know he failed at but failed at fully burning her makng. Me think he used something not as potent. Mainly if he is a chef or something that has a tool like that or for welding and other jobs he could have gotten away with having it on hkm without it seeming odd unlike a dude with a torch who nor ally wouldn't carry one.
And what if the car is part of it but was a rental from towns away or one to test drive that a worker at s dealership could slyly take and or not seem odd. Cause any parked person should have seen smoke right?

 

[Evey]

It be ran her off the road into the forest when she noticed he was following her then found that guy that there was an article about who offered a jogger water be the perp? I would need to find it but it creeped me out that the dude basically ran her off the road then pulls over to offer her water from his van where someone is clearly sitting in the seat behind behind the passenger and seems male. She turned it down and said she would have had to reach in the passenger window to get the water. No adult would sit behind an open front seat in a van normally.. and to me taking self defense class means you're scared of someone enough to go and likely they'd maybe tell you what to beware of.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

This is also where I am at, though I will say it if he did remove her from there And assault her statistics arent good that she would be alive either. But as far as what happened. Botched abduction attempt. She hit hard, maybe gouged his eye, he got mad instead of fearful. Instead of running away, he did what he did.

Our biggest hurdle is why was he in Princeton. I haven't figured that out. Obviously he was there. Most people there are from there or close by, so one would assume he was too. As many have asserted, its not a target rich environment. There are other towns and places with a lot more potential victims. So he either knew the town, or was of genius intelligence and knew there wouldn't be a single useful security camera in the entire town- it's like a dark spot. An off-grid haven. Based on how he botched this and left the body, I don't think he's that smart. So I tend to think he was semi-local, I'll call it, and saw Vanessa that same day. I still think he had knowledge that she'd be running, since I think he got her within the first ten minutes of her run, and statistically the probability of a random encounter in that tight window is very very very slim. Chances go way up if he saw her at the store and saw where she went to from there, then drove around for a bit, maybe a half hour and thought about what he wanted to do, then Voila, on his third trip down BSR, bingo there she was.

Forgive me for being slow-witted. But couldn't he be driving by, see a girl who fits his sexual obsessions, be overcome with impulse, seize the opportunity of being alone and attack? Never having seen her before.

 

[Evey]

The statement on the SUV though didn't just say they saw a dark SUV at that spot at that time....it asked for info on any males in the area that would have had access to a dark SUV that day....to me that is saying that are connecting a dark SUV in a much much much bigger way then just someone seeing it on the side of the road for a brief period of time.

I think LE has conclusive reason for knowing the perp was driving around Princeton in a dark SUV on Sunday Aug 7.

I don't find continuing to dismiss this helpful, I find it actually harmful. When we stick to one theory and evidence comes forward that conflicts with our theory perhaps it's not the info that is incorrect but the theory being clung to despite conflicting info that needs to be reassessed..

.I guess I don't understand why you don't look at the facts and say what makes sense given the facts....rather then well I think this theory should fit so I will just dismiss any facts that don't support it. But perhaps that's just me.

That's what I read also and pictured him driving around town maybe stopping briefly to check the spot out. Someone in town or visiting. And if people are right and she has a secret BF what if they met up in his car for stuff but parked it over there but things went wrong or he planned it. This only crosses my mind because originally they'd say she was raped and then now it seems as if they don't so what f it was voluntary before death?

 

[Evey]

Ok the complete road list (and distance run along it) includes the following:

BSR ---2 mi
RADFORD ROAD---0.4 mi (whole length)
ALLEN HILL ROAD---0.33mi(whole length)
MOUNTAIN ROAD(from boylston to slightly north of Thompson Rd intersect)---1mi
BOYLSTON AVE---0.45mi (whole length)
WORCESTER ROAD(RT31)--2.55mi
BALL HILL ROAD---1.13mi***
MATTHEWS ROAD--0.3mi

*** southerly extent of her mapped runs, she would not have made it onto this road until perhaps 2pm.

Also just thought of something. The mountain barn restaurant located on Worcester Road was precisely 3.1 miles from her house in the direction that her map routes always go. ( it is 3.2 miles the other way which is relatively negligibly different).

Her pace typically ranges from 11-13 minutes/mile. This means on the conservative end if she left at 115 pm and ran slow, she would have passed the restaurant by 1:54pm. If she left at 1 and ran fast she would pass it by 1:48pm. Meaning she would pass it by 2 o'clock no matter what. That is a full 25 minutes before her phone "locates "near the mountain barn restaurant .

If the phone was located down there could the killer have been driving off with it abd setring up a story so she looked as if she ran there? In hopes they'd check there first and he'd have knew time

 

[ForensicMass]

Ummm that's not what I was saying at all. Again I feel you have misunderstood me and twisted my words into something other then there intent. I certainly do not think nor did I even remotely suggest someone was waiting in the bushes for her for hours. I meant someone who would have known her in a way they would have known she would have been on a run then, on that specific day and targeted her at that time at that location with knowledge she would be there...which makes me think they may have known her. Please stop twisting my meaning, it's frustrating to feel like words are being put into my mouth. Again I don't think it's your intent but it's very frustrating.

I really do not see someone spotting her being in a store for five minutes buying a drink, and then he decides to kill her, and then drive around hoping to spot her...I'm sorry but I just really feel like that's a big stretch.

Perhaps someone who wanted her harmed and had fantasized about it and spotting her that day made him want to act on it...but I don't see it being someone who spotted her for the first time and acted in it right then.

Respectfully I just feel there are too many coincidences that would fall into place for it to be random crime of opportunity, and I personally feel it's more likely that this crime is not random...and that no other person would have fallen in harms way on that day.

None of what I said was speaking for you. Sorry if it sounded that way.

I don't see who would have known that she was there that day and running at that time. To me based on her running habits the time of her run was very likely something that she decided on after waking up that day. So who could have known that? you said you meant someone who would know that she would be running on that specific day, and targeted her at that specific time and location. But who would know that?

On a run during similar hot weather conditions on August 22, 2015, she ran at 9:30 in the morning ( we runners do this often to avoid the heat of the day during this time of year)

How long in advance do you think she had this run time planned? This is a key issue for me and it seems to be a sticking point. Running in the summer is something I am very familiar with. In looking at about 20 of her runs, including about a half dozen in Princeton, there is nothing that suggests to me that her run was at a set time that day. I know the media stated generally that she had a habit of running before returning to New York City, But that doesn't immediately before.




Who would know about a run that specific afternoon. Surely there was no explicit mention of it in text messages- or if there was, then that person had been ruled out by now. We are 4 months in. If it was someone very close to her they would have keyed in on this person and they wouldn't be asking about a dark SUV. JMO.

This could be a key component of the case: I would love some evidence that someone would know that she was running at that specific time. To me that knowledge wouldn't be available until she made that decision, that day.

 

[ForensicMass]

Forgive me for being slow-witted. But couldn't he be driving by, see a girl who fits his sexual obsessions, be overcome with impulse, seize the opportunity of being alone and attack? Never having seen her before.

Yes this is totally a possibility. I think the general feeling is that if someone local to Princeton why her And why now? It's just such a highly unusual place for a random crime like that to occur

 

[Kickoff61]

None of what I said was speaking for you. Sorry if it sounded that way.

I don't see who would have known that she was there that day and running at that time. To me based on her running habits the time of her run was very likely something that she decided on after waking up that day. So who could have known that? you said you meant someone who would know that she would be running on that specific day, and targeted her at that specific time and location. But who would know that?

On a run during similar hot weather conditions on August 22, 2015, she ran at 9:30 in the morning ( we runners do this often to avoid the heat of the day during this time of year)

How long in advance do you think she had this run time planned? This is a key issue for me and it seems to be a sticking point. Running in the summer is something I am very familiar with. In looking at about 20 of her runs, including about a half dozen in Princeton, there is nothing that suggests to me that her run was at a set time that day. I know the media stated generally that she had a habit of running before returning to New York City, But that doesn't immediately before.




Who would know about a run that specific afternoon. Surely there was no explicit mention of it in text messages- or if there was, then that person had been ruled out by now. We are 4 months in. If it was someone very close to her they would have keyed in on this person and they wouldn't be asking about a dark SUV. JMO.

This could be a key component of the case: I would love some evidence that someone would know that she was running at that specific time. To me that knowledge wouldn't be available until she made that decision, that day.

After the SUV info. was put out by LE , a neighbor was on TV saying they had returned to ask neighbors questions and he had voluntarily given his DNA. LE know what they are doing and clearly have reason to be taking voluntary DNA from neighbors 'after' the SUV info was put out. So no, what you said about them clearing people nearby prior to that doesn't fit.

 

[ForensicMass]

After the SUV info. was put out by LE , a neighbor was on TV saying they had returned to ask neighbors questions and he had voluntarily given his DNA. LE know what they are doing and clearly have reason to be taking voluntary DNA from neighbors 'after' the SUV info was put out. So no, what you said about them clearing people nearby prior to that doesn't fit.

Good point. Still don't know who could have known she was running at 1pm. If we take the perspective that the SUV was an afterthought, and that the perp was originally on foot in the woods, how long do you think he would have waited there? Do you think it reasonable that he could have been there since 9am? Just wondering about the theory here.

We need to figure out how someone could learn of her 1pm run. Or we need to consider that someone would have potentially waited several hours. I tend to lean on someone learning of it passively when they saw her and knew she was home, then setting up for probably 1hour or less. Vs someone who would wait for an extended period of hours, which HISTORICAL DATA SHOW he may have had to do since WE KNOW that she sometimes ran as early as 7:14 AM in Princeton. IN FACT her run times span from 6:17 AM to 6:52 PM (including NY runs) This is someone who ran on an irregular schedule when they felt good, weather was good, or schedule permitted. Not a robot that ran at 1PM each day.

So how did someone know when she was running that day?

 

[Kickoff61]

Numerous ways. Could have been walking, hiking, running, (biking as Rocky says) when she was. Could have been on their own property knowing she regularly runs by - on certain days, doesn't have to know the exact time that day. He could see her go by, he could be out and about on property prior doing other things. We still don't know if she wasn't brought to where she was found..or also he could have seen her at the store as you say, as locals go there too. There are just too many ways he could have easily seen her on her route and even been familiar with her from the area , or running activities she is involved with or other activities.

 

[Kickoff61]

Actually the more thinking about it. It would be much harder for someone to know from out of the area and target the timing of her route **like you are talking about** unless he frequently consistently visited.

 

[liz b.]

Good point. Still don't know who could have known she was running at 1pm. If we take the perspective that the SUV was an afterthought, and that the perp was originally on foot in the woods, how long do you think he would have waited there? Do you think it reasonable that he could have been there since 9am? Just wondering about the theory here.

We need to figure out how someone could learn of her 1pm run. Or we need to consider that someone would have potentially waited several hours. I tend to lean on someone learning of it passively when they saw her and knew she was home, then setting up for probably 1hour or less. Vs someone who would wait for an extended period of hours, which HISTORICAL DATA SHOW he may have had to do since WE KNOW that she sometimes ran as early as 7:14 AM in Princeton. IN FACT her run times span from 6:17 AM to 6:52 PM (including NY runs) This is someone who ran on an irregular schedule when they felt good, weather was good, or schedule permitted. Not a robot that ran at 1PM each day.

So how did someone know when she was running that day?

RBBM : Is it known where she ran in NY ?