Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 12

[mrsmousemat]

Well, you could also make a case for the McCanns locking the door and claiming the door was unlocked because it makes the abduction theory more believable. Supposedly the PJ and resort staff completely discounted the fact that the room looked broken into, including the "jemmied" shutters. But since the McCanns have been severely chastised by almost everyone for leaving the kids in an unlocked apartment, they're condemned no matter what the truth is. Either way, it's wrong.

Agreed the McCanns might have claimed the doors were unlocked to bolster the abduction theory, but I understand that if the doors were locked, and they had admitted it, they stood to be arrested.

The claim is that the children hadn't been inspected from the inside of the flat as GM didn't take the keys back with him - he just listened outside. We know he was outside from Jeremy Wilkins account but there doesn't seem to be any witness that saw him entering or leaving the flat.
The one fact that seems to be agreed is that the shutters were not 'jemmied' from the outside.

I'm not really interested in judging the either of the McCann' s behaviour in how they left their children on this point.

It's just that if the doors were locked, it would mean that someone had to have a key to the rooms, so that would mean pre-mediatation if you don't go along with the theory that the McCanns or one of their party was responsible.

It also might alter the time frame for Madeleine's disappearance, as it is on GM's visit and Jane Tanner's sighting that we base the time of the possible abduction.

....As for people using this case to promote their own ideas on Websleuths - I don't think it's possible to communicate with any real degree of objectivity, simply because we don't have enough facts - as yet.

Personally I think that everyone has some insights that are helpful (juries apparently reach the right verdicts most of the time) but I was sorry to see, when I first looked at Websleuths, that posters just believed a large amount of what was said in the press, which is natural if you are a trusting sort of person.

 

[docwho3]

At what point does P LE have to release what they know and to whom do they release it. The Mccaans can not be expected to live indeffinitly with a gag in their mouth that they insinuate is both very damaging to them personally but damagaing to attempts to find Maddie.

mjak

Good questions. Anyone have any good answers to those questions for us?

 

[colomom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBXB_cvdxME&mode=related&search=

I had never seen this, thought I'd share.

~Peace

 

[colomom]

Hey everyone,

There is a rather bizarre post on Paulo Reis' blog that is very crypic and I have never been good at figuring these things out. I HATE puzzles...(don't ask me what I am doing on websleuths, like I have said, once this case is done for me....I'm outta here).

Check this: http://gazetadigitalpraiadaluz.blogspot.com/2007/09/predators-that-became-prey-story-of-two.html

One upon a time, there were two cats that went to out to hunt a mouse. They knew were the mouse used to sleep and feed. So, they looked for a place to sleep, nearby. At night, they started the hunt. They found the table where the mouse was eating, but there was no trace of the mouse, just his fork and spoon. They waited and waited, but the mouse took a long time to return. They couldn’t see the mouse’s face, from where they were, so they were convinced the mouse that was using the fork and the spoon was the mouse they were hunting. They try to have a clear view of the mouse’s face. But it wasn’t easy. The mouse had the habit of using a baseball cap, large sun glasses and sit down in the bar with his back to the door, in such an angle that his face was not visible, even when they looked trough a window.
[continues]

Be sure to read all the comments as there are more "clues" there.

 

[CaliKid]

Agreed the McCanns might have claimed the doors were unlocked to bolster the abduction theory, but I understand that if the doors were locked, and they had admitted it, they stood to be arrested.

The claim is that the children hadn't been inspected from the inside of the flat as GM didn't take the keys back with him - he just listened outside. We know he was outside from Jeremy Wilkins account but there doesn't seem to be any witness that saw him entering or leaving the flat.
The one fact that seems to be agreed is that the shutters were not 'jemmied' from the outside.

One idea about getting into the room if the door was locked were the number of people in the apartments who complained about burglaries where it appeared someone used a key.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Colomom, it sounds to me like the McCann Camp has sent two of their agents to spy on Reis and intimidate him. He should report this to the Judicia.

 

[CaliKid]

Here is an interesting bit of information from the Mirror Forums. The Catholic Church in PDL switched priests on May 6. If a priest started his post on that date, it means another priest left for somewhere (in this case the UK). GM was asking for a priest in the early morning hours after Madeleine disappeared. It might mean absolutely nothing, but the timing intrigues me.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8131&start=45&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= (You have to scroll down a little)

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9003

http://www.stvincentsalgarve.org/news.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1825687,00.html

 

[twinkiesmom]

Re: what comes around goes around....Yes, bad things happen to good people, but I think the original poster was referring to character, not circumstances. I believe the McCanns' fatal character flaw is arrogance, and it will follow them through life (repeated episodes of failure and comeuppence) unless they choose to take responsibility for their negligence in this case and own up to their part of it.

 

[CaliKid]

Colomom, it sounds to me like the McCann Camp has sent two of their agents to spy on Reis and intimidate him. He should report this to the Judicia.

02/09/07 01:28
Paulo Reis said...
Dear Susiemac,

No, I don't think they have any connection with Madeleine's disappearence.

02/09/07 00:24
Paulo Reis said...
Dear anonymous,

As soon as I have any news about this, I'll post it. I'll give them 24 hours. After that, I'll post a picture of the licene plate. After 48 hours, I'll publish the full name of the car owner and the name of the city where he lives. Another 24 hours and I'll go to Police to file a complaint.

 

[colomom]

Re: what comes around goes around....Yes, bad things happen to good people, but I think the original poster was referring to character, not circumstances. I believe the McCanns' fatal character flaw is arrogance, and it will follow them through life (repeated episodes of failure and comeuppence) unless they choose to take responsibility for their negligence in this case and own up to their part of it.

I appreciate you twinkiesmom.....

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBXB_cvdxME&mode=related&search=

I had never seen this, thought I'd share.

~Peace

I've never seen it either. I still don't understand how KM can be so clueless about child abuse considering her position as a doctor.

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272615817.shtml

Madeleine McCann Father Stressed, Near Breakdown From Hate Campaign

 

[Shazza]

Here is an interesting bit of information from the Mirror Forums. The Catholic Church in PDL switched priests on May 6. If a priest started his post on that date, it means another priest left for somewhere (in this case the UK). GM was asking for a priest in the early morning hours after Madeleine disappeared. It might mean absolutely nothing, but the timing intrigues me.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8131&start=45&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= (You have to scroll down a little)

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9003

http://www.stvincentsalgarve.org/news.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1825687,00.html

I am not catholic so if what I say is wrong I am sure someone will let me know.
The priest leaving intrigues me, maybe he knows something that he learnt during a confession, if so can he be called upon to relate that information to the P LE or whatever is said in a confession is between the confessor and the priest. Maybe that is the reason he left so early in the case, so as he would not be called upon to make a statement. I think we need to find out who saw this priest and for what reason and also what does he know that could relate to this case.

 

[CaliKid]

I am not catholic so if what I say is wrong I am sure someone will let me know.
The priest leaving intrigues me, maybe he knows something that he learnt during a confession, if so can he be called upon to relate that information to the P LE or whatever is said in a confession is between the confessor and the priest. Maybe that is the reason he left so early in the case, so as he would not be called upon to make a statement. I think we need to find out who saw this priest and for what reason and also what does he know that could relate to this case.

Shazza, the switching of the priests was planned, not a random thing in which one asked suddenly to leave. The original priest, Rev. Britt, was hounded out of Portugal by an e-mail hate campaign, and the church was led by a rotating priest, ending with Father Wilson. I think there is an error in one of the stories because Rev. Hubbard, the father who took over on May 6, arrived almost a month before from Canada. And it appears as if Father Wilson is now back in the UK at a church in the same town as Murat's wife.

My curiosity possibly comes from having little knowledge of the Catholic Church and wondering if GM's request for a priest seems just a bit coincidental to anyone? For anyone who knows, what is the Catholic doctrine on burial? Last rites? And is confession absolutely privileged information when it concerns a crime?

 

[Shazza]

Shazza, the switching of the priests was planned, not a random thing in which one asked suddenly to leave. The original priest, Rev. Britt, was hounded out of Portugal by an e-mail hate campaign, and the church was led by a rotating priest, ending with Father Wilson. I think there is an error in one of the stories because Rev. Hubbard, the father who took over on May 6, arrived almost a month before from Canada. And it appears as if Father Wilson is now back in the UK at a church in the same town as Murat's wife.

My curiosity possibly comes from having little knowledge of the Catholic Church and wondering if GM's request for a priest seems just a bit coincidental to anyone? For anyone who knows, what is the Catholic doctrine on burial? Last rites? And is confession absolutely privileged information when it concerns a crime?

Thanks Calikid for the explanation of the priests coming and going. But I too would like the same answers to the questions you ask.

If the priest is unable to tell the police any information that he heard through confession, then I dont understand, especially if it will help with the case. Religion to me means helping others and believing in a higher being that protects us, but not being able to give information that could help someone seems hypocritical to me, and not what religion is all about.

 

[jacobean]

From Calikid post QUOTE: My curiosity possibly comes from having little knowledge of the Catholic Church and wondering if GM's request for a priest seems just a bit coincidental to anyone? For anyone who knows, what is the Catholic doctrine on burial? Last rites? And is confession absolutely privileged information when it concerns a crime? UNQUOTE

I think alot depends on the country/ state that you are being prosecuted in. The UK, for instance, is a Protestant country so i dont think the confessional is protected there from criminal prosecution, although i dont know how the law would apply to confessionals made outside of those countries, whether it could be affected by the the religion of that country (portugal being catholic...), or perhaps the nationality of the Priest...i found quite an interesting article on wiki concerning this (bearing in mind it is wiki...): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest...rom_the_Reformation_to_the_nineteenth_century

Regarding Cathoilc burial and last rites, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03071a.htm This article from the catholic encyclopedia i found also quite interesting, there is a section on child burial just over half way down.

As practising catholics, i dont find it that strange that GM would have asked for a priest. For religious catholic families, often their priest is very close to the family, acts as an advisor and provides comfort to families in times of trial. Although, i also have to be cynical about the meeting with the pope, i cant think of a nice way to really say what i think so i'll just keep it to myself.

 

[mrsmousemat]

Here is an interesting bit of information from the Mirror Forums. The Catholic Church in PDL switched priests on May 6. If a priest started his post on that date, it means another priest left for somewhere (in this case the UK). GM was asking for a priest in the early morning hours after Madeleine disappeared. It might mean absolutely nothing, but the timing intrigues me.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8131&start=45&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= (You have to scroll down a little)

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9003

http://www.stvincentsalgarve.org/news.htm

Calikid - I think that the church which switched priests on May 6 is an Anglican Church - Church of England, and not a Catholic one.

Anyone interested should read about this on the Daily Mirror website forums (as above) under the title Freemasonary and anarchy in the Algarve.

Freemasons are a secret society in the UK.

The previous reverend, Eric Britt, who presumably left on May 5, had fought a long court battle with the church - and won it - basically over being bullied. It seems he has relocated in Portugal.

On this site is a picture of Eric Britt. the poster invites readers to compare the image to that of Robert Murat.

Again, maybe something, maybe nothing.

 

[Shazza]

From Calikid post QUOTE: My curiosity possibly comes from having little knowledge of the Catholic Church and wondering if GM's request for a priest seems just a bit coincidental to anyone? For anyone who knows, what is the Catholic doctrine on burial? Last rites? And is confession absolutely privileged information when it concerns a crime? UNQUOTE

I think alot depends on the country/ state that you are being prosecuted in. The UK, for instance, is a Protestant country so i dont think the confessional is protected there from criminal prosecution, although i dont know how the law would apply to confessionals made outside of those countries, whether it could be affected by the the religion of that country (portugal being catholic...), or perhaps the nationality of the Priest...i found quite an interesting article on wiki concerning this (bearing in mind it is wiki...): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest...rom_the_Reformation_to_the_nineteenth_century

Regarding Cathoilc burial and last rites, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03071a.htm This article from the catholic encyclopedia i found also quite interesting, there is a section on child burial just over half way down.

As practising catholics, i dont find it that strange that GM would have asked for a priest. For religious catholic families, often their priest is very close to the family, acts as an advisor and provides comfort to families in times of trial. Although, i also have to be cynical about the meeting with the pope, i cant think of a nice way to really say what i think so i'll just keep it to myself.

I Thought religion was universal, if your catholic then it doesnt matter what country you live in, Catholic is Catholic, Anglican is Anglican, there are catholics living in the UK even if it is mainly a protestant country. What ever religion you are their doctrines dont change because you live in a different country. This is how I see the way religion works, if I am wrong I apologise. But I truly do not understand how a religion can change from country to country. If you are a non believer in religion, well that is the same all over the world as there are athiests out there. To sum it up what I am trying to say is the rules dont change in religions.

 

[Shazza]

Hey everyone,

There is a rather bizarre post on Paulo Reis' blog that is very crypic and I have never been good at figuring these things out. I HATE puzzles...(don't ask me what I am doing on websleuths, like I have said, once this case is done for me....I'm outta here).

Check this: http://gazetadigitalpraiadaluz.blogspot.com/2007/09/predators-that-became-prey-story-of-two.html

One upon a time, there were two cats that went to out to hunt a mouse. They knew were the mouse used to sleep and feed. So, they looked for a place to sleep, nearby. At night, they started the hunt. They found the table where the mouse was eating, but there was no trace of the mouse, just his fork and spoon. They waited and waited, but the mouse took a long time to return. They couldn’t see the mouse’s face, from where they were, so they were convinced the mouse that was using the fork and the spoon was the mouse they were hunting. They try to have a clear view of the mouse’s face. But it wasn’t easy. The mouse had the habit of using a baseball cap, large sun glasses and sit down in the bar with his back to the door, in such an angle that his face was not visible, even when they looked trough a window.
[continues]

Be sure to read all the comments as there are more "clues" there.

I find this interesting colomom, the mouse is the journalist, the two cats I think are investigators, PI's, LE. I am not sure if this is right, but reading the comments lead me to believe this. What does the mouse have on the two cats? The cats want to keep the mouse quiet, why?

 

[mrsmousemat]

GM was asking for a priest in the early morning hours after Madeleine disappeared. It might mean absolutely nothing, but the timing intrigues me.

The Catholic church ... priests...cover-ups ...paedophilia..

Perhaps the McCanns were hoping for a few tips on local networks, having read the statistics on the occupations of paedophiles.

There again, the chances are that he was called in for their emotional support and to pray for her safe return.