Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 12

[CaliKid]

colomom, if you could ask how busy the street is outside the front(?) door of the apartment and if it looks as if most of the nearby flats have people staying in them. I'm curious because it was reported early in the case that the PJ neglected to search them, and there were supposedly hundreds of empty apartments very close to the McCanns' she could've been hidden in.

 

[colomom]

Heather...

I'd also love for them to give us the exact distance in yards (to their approximation) between the Tapas Bar and the door of the McCanns' apartment, so we can get that cleared up once and for all.

I will pass on your request too English, but in the meantime, check this: http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/392/longwaycz6.jpg

It was done using Google Earth and is as acurate as I have seen.

 

[Salem]

Heather...

I'd also love for them to give us the exact distance in yards (to their approximation) between the Tapas Bar and the door of the McCanns' apartment, so we can get that cleared up once and for all.

Also, Colomom, if you could ask how long it takes to get from the Tapas Bar to the apartment, on the shorest possible route, that would be helpful. Then maybe we could figure out approximately how often everyone's path crossed on their way to check the children......

Thank you and your friends!

Salem

 

[colomom]

colomom, if you could ask how busy the street is outside the front(?) door of the apartment and if it looks as if most of the nearby flats have people staying in them. I'm curious because it was reported early in the case that the PJ neglected to search them, and there were supposedly hundreds of empty apartments very close to the McCanns' she could've been hidden in.

Cali,

I will ask their opinion but they have already told me that right now, it is busier than they expected, considering it is August and heading into "off-season". The McCanns were staying there in May so it was very early in the season and was quieter than it is now. If you look at the maps of the Ocean Club complex you can see that there are many, many apartments in that area. I would bet buckets of $$$ that there were lots of empty apartments in May.

My friend told me that the street that is behind and the one beside the apartment were busier than they expected. But then again, there were TV crews and "tourists" about.

I will pass on their report.

 

[Salem]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/31/nmaddy231.xml

This first sentence is quite odd... and does, "If successful, ... mean if aquitted?

They have told friends they will fight the criminal case all the way to the courts. If successful, they can then apply for indemnity in the civil court. If the McCanns are successful in showing that Tal & Qal lied, the McCanns could use the "judgment" in any case involving Maddie. I see this as a bad thing because it may allow them to escape prosecution for any involvement they may have had in what happened.

If the McCanns do give evidence at trial, it will be the first time they have publicly discussed the case as they are not allowed to talk about the investigation. I see this as a good thing. If the McCanns can talk, it might shed some light on all of our many, many questions and their thought processes.

But under Portuguese law, they can talk about events that night as part of other legal proceedings. "They are 100pc on this," said a friend. "They will take it all the way if necessary.'' Same comment as above. I am not sure what "take it all the way" means, except that maybe they fully intend to go to court if the paper won't settle out of court. My question would be, if they settle out of court, would the "judgment" carry the same weight as a trial judgment would?

Colomom, thanks for 'encouraging' your friends on the scene to do a little sleuthing. I wonder if they have timed the walk from the entrance to OC to the little gate and steps up to the M apartment?

And I thank you and your friends also, Colomom for providing "eye witness" accounts we can TRUST. :blowkiss:


Salem

 

[colomom]

Also, Colomom, if you could ask how long it takes to get from the Tapas Bar to the apartment, on the shorest possible route, that would be helpful. Then maybe we could figure out approximately how often everyone's path crossed on their way to check the children......

Thank you and your friends!

Salem

OK Salem, I will pass it along. It is very interesting to me how everyone want to know about the timing and the distance. I think it will confirm to us that that there has been some "dishonesty" in the reporting. I will also ask them about alternate routes from the Tapas to the apartments. One thing they mentioned when we spoke today was...the wall around the complex and how much bigger it was than expected and how much it separated the McCann apartment from the pool and the Tapas Bar.

 

[englishleigh]

I will pass on your request too English, but in the meantime, check this: http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/392/longwaycz6.jpg

It was done using Google Earth and is as acurate as I have seen.

Wow!! That's a long way.

 

[colomom]

http://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2007-09-01
The exact wording on Express front page is:
"Now police tell parents: Do not go back home"
here we go again....

 

[Shazza]

Wow!! That's a long way.

It sure is, how can anyone say it was about 20ft, if they lied about this what else did they lie about.

A big thankyou from me too Colomom, and to your friends who are in Portugal. Will be very interesting to see what they are able to relate back to us.

 

[mrsmousemat]

http://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2007-09-01
The exact wording on Express front page is:
"Now police tell parents: Do not go back home"
here we go again....

Would urge caution in reading the Daily Express.

This paper seems to have two front page lead stories - Madeleine and Princess Diana. They both sell lots of newspapers.

Watch out for any headline with 'scare quotes' and any headline that ends in a ?

eg Are Madeleine's parents 'seven foot tall'?

The answer - in one of the last paragraphs will usually be - No, but, by then, you've bought the newspaper to find out.

 

[mrsmousemat]

Especially because: “I trust our sources and please note that I say sources in plural, because they are more than three”, the director said, who guarantees that the weekly he directs “never wrote anything that has not been confirmed, since this process [of Maddie’s disappearance] started”.

It would be illegal for the police personnel to speak to the press, so if they name their sources - if they have any, the sources could not only be lose their jobs but be prosecuted under the secrecy law.

If they don't name them - then they have no defence.

 

[Shazza]

The McCanns to sue newspaper just hitting our news headlines.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269533

 

[mjak]

I really think the McCanns are making a huge mystake suing the newspaper now. Unless they feel this is an avenue that will alow them to speak freely and show themselves in a better light I see this as just adding more negative exposure to theire allready negativly percieved imagies. I think most people ( at least I hope) no there are many newspapers filled with unsubsantiated misleading junk and do not take what they print as the gospel. These parents at least in my mind can not be thought of as innocent because of the many inconsistancies in their accounting of the events when Maddie dissapeared and the many questionable behaviors and statements they have made. Yes, I realise the laws in Portugal may have contributed to this. They do not need to be participating in any thing that falls under the umbrella of negativitly and lawsuits like this one do carry a subsatantial amount of critisizm and contriversary. These parents all ready have enough of both those things in their life right now. Now is the time to be putting all enegy into search for Maddie and the investigation. One can easily see this as just another example of how the Mccaans focus on everything else other then the most important thing which is finding their daughter. First it is all about raising money, then the plight of missing chldren everywhere, and now a lawsuit. There is time down the road to file aor purse a lawsuit like this and certanitly they have every reason to do it if they feel it appropriate. However, now is not the time and for people like me who want to believe these parents are not guilty it only contributes to the reasons I can't chatergorzie them as innocent.

mjak

 

[docwho3]

. . .I think most people ( at least I hope) no there are many newspapers filled with unsubsantiated misleading junk and do not take what they print as the gospel. . .

Unfortunately, from what I have been seeing on the forums there are many people that search out any news article no matter how weird and biased it is and if it fits their theory on the case they accept it as gospel. If those do that then others in the public are also doing the same.

If the Mccanns are innocent of causing the disappearance of their daughter by foul play then these multitude of news articles against them and which accuse them of killing her may cause people with actual tips of some small bit of useful information about some other perp or even a valid live sighting of the girl may not come forward to L.E. because they think it must be unrelated if the newspapers are correct and the parents have done away with their own daughter as stated in the articles.

Also there is the fact that they failed to sue the first time and it probably caused some to question if the parents own guilt kept them from suing as if they were afraid that information would surface that would get them charged in criminal court. Their jobs may be ruined if those articles go unchallenged. And unless the articles charges are successfully refuted and/or the real culprit found (if other than the parents) by L.E. their careers may already be gone and how then are they to take care of the remaining children and feed them and raise them?

 

[colomom]

Would urge caution in reading the Daily Express.

I can assure you Mrsmousemat, I do not believe ANYTHING I read in the papers or see on TV. But, I will still post the things that I see and express my reaction to it.

I read and watch as much as possible and then form my own opinion. I trust my own brain and gut waaaay more than the mainstream media.

So, don't you worry....

 

[colomom]

Unfortunately, from what I have been seeing on the forums there are many people that search out any news article no matter how weird and biased it is and if it fits their theory on the case they accept it as gospel. If those do that then others in the public are also doing the same.

So?

If the Mccanns are innocent of causing the disappearance of their daughter by foul play then these multitude of news articles against them and which accuse them of killing her may cause people with actual tips of some small bit of useful information about some other perp or even a valid live sighting of the girl may not come forward to L.E. because they think it must be unrelated if the newspapers are correct and the parents have done away with their own daughter as stated in the articles.

If you were intelligent enough to figure that out what makes you think that the majority of people can't do the same?

Also there is the fact that they failed to sue the first time and it probably caused some to question if the parents own guilt kept them from suing as if they were afraid that information would surface that would get them charged in criminal court. Their jobs may be ruined if those articles go unchallenged. And unless the articles charges are successfully refuted and/or the real culprit found (if other than the parents) by L.E. their careers may already be gone and how then are they to take care of the remaining children and feed them and raise them?

I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around and what you put out there into the world is what you will get back. Therefore, if the McCanns are "suffering" because of the negative energy directed toward them then I think they need to examine how they are walking in the world. Somehow, I do not think that the twins will starve...

 

[Morag]

Here's some comment on Portugese libel law (in todays timesonline) which explains the earlier confusion about the McCanns fighting the criminal case all the way to the courts. Apparently they can sue for both criminal libel and civil libel, in two different courts.

Under Portuguese law people have the right to have their good-name and reputation respected. Dr Vasco Marques Correia, head of media at PLMJ lawyers, Portugal’s largest law firm, said the McCanns could bring their action for defamation in both the criminal and civil courts.

If the publisher and journalist are found guilty of criminal libel they could be jailed for up to two years. They could also be fined up to €120 (£80) and €180,000 (£122,000).

 

[mjak]

Here's some comment on Portugese libel law (in todays timesonline) which explains the earlier confusion about the McCanns fighting the criminal case all the way to the courts. Apparently they can sue for both criminal libel and civil libel, in two different courts.

And all the time and effort persuing this helps to find Maddie in what way???

mjak

 

[mjak]

Unfortunately, from what I have been seeing on the forums there are many people that search out any news article no matter how weird and biased it is and if it fits their theory on the case they accept it as gospel. quote]

They are bringing these news articles here and discussing them and participating in the disection of these theroies. I think this is good sleuthing and helpful in what we do here. Much of what is brought here we all scuff out and disregard but for iall of t that is junk we do find useful information and certanitly we want every opportunity to obtain that. I think in al lhonestly very few people here take any newspaper as gospel. IF they did why bother even participating here because the whole concept is based on discussion and sleuthing. If you allready know the definiitive, absolute , for certain solution there really is nothing to gain by participating here.

mjak

 

[mrsmousemat]

I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around and what you put out there into the world is what you will get back.

So would you say that anyone who have a family member injured - say in a car crash for instance -would have had to do something bad to deserve this happening to them?

Do you think the McCanns did something very bad to their child as payback?