Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 19

[Trino]

Why not take the LD test? That is certainly a way for Kate put alot of negative thoughts about her to rest. You were right, both Walsh and Klass took LDT. IIRC, Klass begged to take one.

We certainly have an inkling why Kate won't take the test, right?

And, by the way, the detective that says Madeline is still alive was hired by the McCanns. The detective is not stupid; he doesn't want to cut his own funding.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Why not take the LD test? That is certainly a way for Kate put alot of negative thoughts about her to rest.

You were right, both Walsh and Klass took LDT. IIRC, Klass begged to take one.

That's right! Anyone who is innocent would take one, just to move on to a more productive search. How many guilty people agree to take one?

Did OJ? I can't remember. I can only think of one case where a guilty person took a lie detector test and passed. He was a schizophrenic, and could mentally detach himself from the crime. He was eventually convicted years later because of new DNA technology.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

You would always publicize that, right, because that way the person you are about to catch would know it.

Just like you would release baby photos of a missing preschooler because that would help identify her to anyone.

:banghead:

LOL...no kidding!

The McCanns where told not to show emotion on TV interviews so not to excite the kidnapper(s). But NOW, it's OK to tell the kidnapper "we know who you are and we are about to catch you"?

These people really insult my intelligence. Do they think I'm that stupid??

 

[Salem]

I have to agree with all of the above. It is in all the papers about how that Inspector is about to pounce on the kidnapper.

I don't know how things work in Portugal, but here in the US, all of this nonsense might be enough to ensure a "reasonable doubt" at trial.

Salem

 

[ThoughtFox]

Last night they were reporting that an unknown woman was seen with Maddie two days after she allegedly "disappeared" and not today, the papers are reporting that it was Murat's girlfriend???

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/11/19/murat-s-girl-had-maddy-89520-20126003/

. . . a witness told how she allegedly saw Robert Murat's girlfriend carrying a child wrapped in a blanket.

The woman claimed Michaela Walczuch, 34, handed the youngster over to a man in a car just two days after Maddy vanished from her holiday apartment on May 3.

Private eyes hired by Kate and Gerry McCann from the Spanish Metodo 3 agency said the witness told them Walczuch took the child from her car and bundled her into the other motor in central Portugal, 90 miles away from the resort of Praia da Luz.

A source said: "A witness identified Michaela Walczuch as the woman she saw handing a child to another man in central Portugal on May 5. She identified her after being shown a series of pictures."

"This new evidence has not come from the McCanns but from the detective agency they hired last month.

And supposedly they are searching the church again:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...+and+launch+fresh+search+of+church/article.do

Officers are focusing on the Our Lady of the Light Church in Praia de Luz amid a theory the four-year-old's body was stashed there, before being moved to a final hiding place.

They also searched outside the church, including in the old cemetery which is now a garden.

It is now four months since British sniffer dogs raised suspicions about the church.

The new search of the church was carried out two weeks ago "informally and with maximum discretion" and was led by Paulo Rebelo, the detective appointed to the case following the dismissal of his predecessor Goncalo Amaral

 

[emery]

It's odd that Kate refuses to take the lie detector test,because it's inadmissable in Portugal, when she knows very well that to the rest of the world, the lie detector/polygraph test is a kind of a step one hurdle to making one's innocence clear.

Am I mistaken, or did John Walsh and Mark Klass both take one, voluntarily, very early on in their children's disappearance?

The comment that the McCanns will not take the test because "they know they are innocent" is so disingenuous, to put it mildly. They may know that, but the rest of the world does not. The whole purpose of the test is for others--not for the test-taker, who clearly knows themselves what is, and what is not, reality.

Thanks for the links, Thoughtfox. :blowkiss:

Lie detector tests are not the way to clear yourself. In fact, they are not admissible in most courts in the US. They are what's called "junk science."

 

[SleuthMom]

Lie detector tests are not the way to clear yourself. In fact, they are not admissible in most courts in the US. They are what's called "junk science."

Who cares if they are admissible in a court or not? At least it helps to rule you out as a suspect and focus in the real search.... of course that is if you are innocent...

 

[emery]

Polograph tests are inherently unreliable because they have a very high rate of false positives. That means the machine often indicates that people are lying when they're not. For this reason, even people who are telling the truth don't want take them because they face a substantial risk having the machine tell them they are lying?

 

[daffodil]

We dont do them in the UK either as far as I know.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Polograph tests are inherently unreliable because they have a very high rate of false positives. That means the machine often indicates that people are lying when they're not. For this reason, even people who are telling the truth don't want take them because they face a substantial risk having the machine tell them they are lying?

But the fact is, they are used all the time by police to rule out suspects.

John Walsh and Mark Klass know what they are talking about, in my opinion.

And another fact is that the McCanns keep saying they want to be ruled out as suspects, so the press and the public won't judge them harshly as parents (according to Kate's mother), and the best way to convince the police to look at someone besides themselves would be to take the lie detector test. That is, unless they are hiding something, in which case they might get that "positive" for lying even if they didn't kill Maddie. In which case, we need to know what they are so afraid of, and what they are hiding.

What everyone wants is the truth about what happened to this little girl, and a lie detector test is one way to get at that, junk science or not. It's the best tool we have right now.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Didn't Kate take the cuddlecat to Church a few times? Maybe that's why the dogs hit on the cadaver scent there.

 

[gord]

Polograph tests are inherently unreliable because they have a very high rate of false positives. That means the machine often indicates that people are lying when they're not. For this reason, even people who are telling the truth don't want take them because they face a substantial risk having the machine tell them they are lying?

Exactly - they are not reliable - hence why in the UK and in Europe they are not used - full stop - they do not appear in our legal framwork - why on earth should they adopt some US system - anyway even of they passed it no one here would believe it anyway - God I heard that some Psycopaths can pass it at ease - great system !!

 

[Texana]

If lie detector tests are inadmissible in UK courts, then Kate McCann has nothing to fear by taking one.

If the newspaper rumors were true and members of the McCann family were investigating psychics, then one can hardly dismiss lie detector tests as "junk science" while embracing the word of psychics.

The reason Kate won't take the test is that she knows it will most likely show deception on the part of her answers. As a doctor, she knows that certain emotions cause physical reactions--raised heart rate/pulse, etc. She knows very well that even the slightest hint of deception would be devastating to the story they have been putting forth.

Remember, Kate refused to answer questions from Portuguese police. She could have answered them with "No, definitely not, are you crazy, of course not," but she refused. She refused a lie detector test.

What she doesn't say or do is as significant as what she does.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If lie detector tests are inadmissible in UK courts, then Kate McCann has nothing to fear by taking one.

There you go - she doesn't have to "embrace the system" at all. The test would be a way to prove she isn't lying, but she must be afraid of something, or she would take the test that won't matter in court. It's a big no-brainer, really.

If the newspaper rumors were true and members of the McCann family were investigating psychics, then one can hardly dismiss lie detector tests as "junk science" while embracing the word of psychics.

Exactly - and no offense to anyone, but I think a lie-detector is just as useful to the case as a meeting with the Pope.

 

[gord]

Who cares if they are admissible in a court or not? At least it helps to rule you out as a suspect and focus in the real search.... of course that is if you are innocent...

firstly it wouldnt rule them out as arguidos - the PJ would ignore any results from a lie detector test because they are not used in Portugal or the UK - say they passed - the police would still carry on with the invesigation

so what is the point - they are not 100% reliable and they dont do anything to find Madeline - just a media thing that would provide another batch of headlines .

 

[poco]

It's odd that Kate refuses to take the lie detector test,because it's inadmissable in Portugal, when she knows very well that to the rest of the world, the lie detector/polygraph test is a kind of a step one hurdle to making one's innocence clear.

Am I mistaken, or did John Walsh and Mark Klass both take one, voluntarily, very early on in their children's disappearance?

The comment that the McCanns will not take the test because "they know they are innocent" is so disingenuous, to put it mildly. They may know that, but the rest of the world does not. The whole purpose of the test is for others--not for the test-taker, who clearly knows themselves what is, and what is not, reality.
Thanks for the links, Thoughtfox. :blowkiss:

Exactly, they may know they are innocent, but we don't.

 

[daffodil]

But why should they have to take a test just to prove to disbelievers they are innocent? They could probably care less and probably feel it would make no difference anyway as if they passed some people would STILL not be satisfied.

 

[gord]

But why should they have to take a test just to prove to disbelievers they are innocent? They could probably care less and probably feel it would make no difference anyway as if they passed some people would STILL not be satisfied.

exactly - I think the clamour for a lie test is just a red herring as people would still doubt their innocence

It does nothing to help find madeline - it is just another focus on the parents - which should only be done under the laws of the land where they are being tried or investigated .

 

[Gin]

Actually many defense attorneys arrange for their clients to take a polygraph privately, before they send their client on to take one with the police. Depending on the results, sometimes defense attorneys advise their clients to decline a "real" polygraph with police.

With missing children, though, it's kind of interesting that some parents will do just about anything to clear themselves, with the goal of allowing the police to move on to other suspects. They immediately volunteer for a polygraph, because they don't want a second wasted on finding the real criminal. Other parents just aren't interested in going the polygraph route.

 

[gord]

Actually many defense attorneys arrange for their clients to take a polygraph privately, before they send their client on to take one with the police. Depending on the results, sometimes defense attorneys advise their clients to decline a "real" polygraph with police.

With missing children, though, it's kind of interesting that some parents will do just about anything to clear themselves, with the goal of allowing the police to move on to other suspects. They immediately volunteer for a polygraph, because they don't want a second wasted on finding the real criminal. Other parents just aren't interested in going the polygraph route.

In the US - maybe , but this is Portugal - the Portugese Police will not do a polygraph as they dont do them - So they would have to get a private one done - probably travel to the States as as far as I can see is the only country in the west who routinely uses them - The police would ignore any results anyway - they would still remain Arguidos - so all they would do is alter that fickle body called public opinion - all to get a test that is not legal in the country they are charged , not 100% reliable anyway

it is not going to happen