Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #27

[Zuleika]

Hope everyone's had a good and peaceful day today .

 

[Zuleika]

Get "up" where? It's a ground floor window! Honestly, I don't understand what it is about that window that people find so "impossible". A burglar who can scale hotel facades into second floor apartments aint going to have any problem creeping in and out of that window. With a sleeping child... yes, that's more difficult. But still not impossible, and we don't even know if she was sleeping by that point. She could have been dead or knocked out.

Looking at the height of it from ground level it's about the height of some of my windows . Although that in itself's nothing it's how you're going to get your leg up that height without any means from ground level in order to get in ....that's what he meant by couldn't just jump in .. I just checked ...and I'm not going to argue with a man who was actually there.
Similarly it was demonstrated ( haven't you seen it?) the height inside from floor to window bottom made it so that a person would have to get up onto to that bed under the window to get through that very small window space sideways , an impossible task carrying a child .

 

[tedtink]

Merry Christmas everyone!
Raising a glass and hoping for a prosecution or three in the near future.

 

[tedtink]

Looking at the height of it from ground level it's about the height of some of my windows . Although that in itself's nothing it's how you're going to get your leg up that height without any means from ground level in order to get in ....that's what he meant by couldn't just jump in .. I just checked ...and I'm not going to argue with a man who was actually there.
Similarly it was demonstrated ( haven't you seen it?) the height inside from floor to window bottom made it so that a person would have to get up onto to that bed under the window to get through that very small window space sideways , an impossible task carrying a child .

Why try to go out through the window when there were 2 doors?

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I don’t believe for a second that CB is cooperating. He’s had no charges (bar what he’s already in for) put against him, hasn’t seen the evidence, so why would he?
I think HCW has been building a picture of him in the media incase they can’t get him for MM. They can charge him for HB’s rape based on the partial fingerprint, the same way they charged him for DM’s rape based on a single hair. Due to the fact his DNA has been collected in two areas where violent crime has occurred, the same violent crime, it can be inferred in those cases that CB is the guilty party. But if all they have on him for MM is him living near PdL, a phone ping in what appears to be a busy enough area given all the statements taken at the time from all over PdL, hearsay from a few former mates and the fact he has a history of abusing children - in an area where paedos are known to frequent (legend has it that there are ‘thousands’ of paedos per square mile. Hey Tim). I don’t see that being enough to infer guilt if they have nothing else. Paedos do tend to escalate their crimes, but it’s a bit of a jump from flashing and upskirting kids in parks and raping adult women, to abducting and murdering a child. So I doubt that’s all they’ve got. HCW has already said that this won’t proceed if they don’t find more solid evidence (I think that was for CB’s benefit). If MSM is to be believed and the prosecutors are now confident it will go to court and they’re doing mock trials etc, I think it can be inferred from that that they have something more solid that we don’t know on him. What we know, CB knows.

FF’s silence intrigues me, too. But no charges have been made so he has no access to the evidence, nothing to defend CB against really. It doesn’t surprise me that he doesn’t want to engage in a public slanging match before things even go to court.

I don’t see that being enough to infer guilt if they have nothing else.
So I doubt that’s all they’ve got.
That's it.
On MM, I really want to believe that they have something more palpable on him, even if (not yet?!) tangible enough. This case "can't" remain indecipherable, without a conviction or just "solved" by "deduction" or "conjecture".
Regarding FF, that's my view too. But he even risked saying "when I reveal it you will fall off your chair,". If there really was an alibi, perhaps we would have expected that he had already mocked at BKA again...

 

[Zuleika]

Why try to go out through the window when there were 2 doors?

You might very well ask . So why was so much emphasisput on the mother claiming " the window was open" ?

 

[Dlk79]

Looking at the height of it from ground level it's about the height of some of my windows . Although that in itself's nothing it's how you're going to get your leg up that height without any means from ground level in order to get in ....that's what he meant by couldn't just jump in .. I just checked ...and I'm not going to argue with a man who was actually there.
Similarly it was demonstrated ( haven't you seen it?) the height inside from floor to window bottom made it so that a person would have to get up onto to that bed under the window to get through that very small window space sideways , an impossible task carrying a child .

The height of the window from the inside floor is 91cm, as can be seen in the first PJ file photograph attached with a measuring tape. CB is 6 feet (183cm) tall. The ratio of leg height to overall height in men is roughly half but usually slightly over. So that puts CB leg height at 91.5cm or more. So, I don't see what is impossible about it, or why someone exiting through the window would need to stand on the bed. Hitch a leg up and you could just scoot through the opening. If you pushed your back against the edge of the window for stability, you could potentially slide through while carrying something.

The outside is slightly higher. If you look at the second photo attachment, at the centre bottom you can see there is a slight step going into the apartment which I'd gauge to be around 8 to 10cm high. This puts the window height at about 1 metre from the outside. Again, no major obstacle for a tall and dextrous burglar like CB.

Perhaps you could just post the link you are referring to, as I'm still not sure what this person you describe is trying to prove in terms of the window.

 

[Nikolai_ff]

Why try to go out through the window when there were 2 doors?

He did not. The window was almost certainly opened to let in a little light from the street and to hear better somebody approaching .

 

[Zuleika]

The height of the window from the inside floor is 91cm, as can be seen in the first PJ file photograph attached with a measuring tape. CB is 6 feet (183cm) tall. The ratio of leg height to overall height in men is roughly half but usually slightly over. So that puts CB leg height at 91.5cm or more. So, I don't see what is impossible about it, or why someone exiting through the window would need to stand on the bed. Hitch a leg up and you could just scoot through the opening. If you pushed your back against the edge of the window for stability, you could potentially slide through while carrying something.

The outside is slightly higher. If you look at the second photo attachment, at the centre bottom you can see there is a slight step going into the apartment which I'd gauge to be around 8 to 10cm high. This puts the window height at about 1 metre from the outside. Again, no major obstacle for a tall and dextrous burglar like CB.

Perhaps you could just post the link you are referring to, as I'm still not sure what this person you describe is trying to prove in terms of the window.

With respect you're perhaps forgetting the announcement by Clarence Mitchell that the shutters had NOT been jemmied so that rules out anyone getting in through that bedroom window.
Listen to him

It was demonstrated to Gonçalo Amaral how an abductor would have had to balance on the bed up against the wall child in his arms of Madeleine's weight to try to get out of that narrow window .Declared impossible .
Plus of course there was no need to use a window when the patio door was unlocked for anyone to wander in and out of .

 

[Dlk79]

With respect you're perhaps forgetting the announcement by Clarence Mitchell that the shutters had NOT been jemmied so that rules out anyone getting in through that bedroom window.
Listen to him

It was demonstrated to Gonçalo Amaral how an abductor would have had to balance on the bed up against the wall child in his arms of Madeleine's weight to try to get out of that narrow window .Declared impossible .
Plus of course there was no need to use a window when the patio door was unlocked for anyone to wander in and out of .

With respect, I'm not forgetting anything. The fact that the McCanns initially thought the shutters had been jemmied open is quite natural. They went out, the shutters were down, they came back, they were stuck open and MM was gone. They weren't aware the shutters could be pushed up from the outside, they thought they could only be manoeuvred using the pulley inside the room. So, it is actually the most logical conclusion for them to assume someone had forced them open as a means of entry to take MM when you think about it, isn't it? If they thought the intruder had come in through the door, then why would they have left through the window? If you were faced with that scenario, where your child was gone and the window was open, logic would lead you to believe that is how the intruder got it.

No offence but the video you posted is nonsense, it makes a number of assumptions to declare the window as a means of entry/exit was impossible without actually explaing why it was impossible. For example, they assume that the abductor must have been Tannerman and then state the timings were too tight (which still doesn't prove it as being impossible by the way). But yet how can they make that assumption when they clearly don't believe there was any abduction in the first place?

KM stated she was unsure if the window was locked, meaning it probably wasn't. Therefore, entering through the window is entirely possible. The shutters lift freely from the outside, once pushed up, all you need to do is slide the window across, reach in to the room and pull on the shutter pulley to hold it in place. Not rocket science, especially if you've robbed these apartments before.

And please post this "proof" of where you say it was declared impossible to exit through the window holding a child. I honestly fail to see what is "impossible" about it. Difficult, maybe, but nowhere near "impossible".

 

[Zuleika]

With respect ,again , I'm not going to go any further with this.
Perhaps if what you think is possible but was tested out by yourself physically as it was by at least two demonstrators instead of you relying on photos you might change your mind ? We can agree to disagree I hope and move on ?
Here's the link to the British ex policeman
'Not possible' Madeleine McCann was carried out window by abductor says former superintendent
Former superintendent Peter MacLeod claims in a podcast about Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the window is too small for a normal-sized man carrying a child to get through
. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/not-possible-madeleine-mccann-carried-14097791

It would take me some time to find the actual Portuguese demonstration to Amaral .
Personally I don't believe anyone used that window .
If CB had an accomplice who kept him informed of the comings and goings of an evening to the Tapas 9 apts during the week he would surely test the doors and come to think of it how would he know which bedroom the children slept in ? Unless he already knew the layouts of course .

So far it's all speculation placing him in the apt? HCW is going to have to link him to M in there at some point?

 

[Dlk79]

With respect ,again , I'm not going to go any further with this.
Perhaps if what you think is possible but was tested out by yourself physically as it was by at least two demonstrators instead of you relying on photos you might change your mind ? We can agree to disagree I hope and move on ?
Here's the link to the British ex policeman
'Not possible' Madeleine McCann was carried out window by abductor says former superintendent
Former superintendent Peter MacLeod claims in a podcast about Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the window is too small for a normal-sized man carrying a child to get through
. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/not-possible-madeleine-mccann-carried-14097791

It would take me some time to find the actual Portuguese demonstration to Amaral .
Personally I don't believe anyone used that window .
If CB had an accomplice who kept him informed of the comings and goings of an evening to the Tapas 9 apts during the week he would surely test the doors and come to think of it how would he know which bedroom the children slept in ? Unless he already knew the layouts of course .

So far it's all speculation placing him in the apt? HCW is going to have to link him to M in there at some point?

If you've seen these demonstrators and believe it is an impartial and conclusive reconstruction, why don't you just post it? I'm not closed-minded, I'm willing to change my mind about the window if someone can show me why it's "impossible". But with respect, I'm not going to just take your word for it that you've seen a video that "proves" it is impossible when I can envisage a way it can be done.

 

[Dlk79]

Here's the link to the British ex policeman
'Not possible' Madeleine McCann was carried out window by abductor says former superintendent
Former superintendent Peter MacLeod claims in a podcast about Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the window is too small for a normal-sized man carrying a child to get through
. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/not-possible-madeleine-mccann-carried-14097791

That is not proof. That is the "opinion" of a man who has written an anti-McCann book. So is his opinion really impartial and trustworthy? He acknowledges that the window is 50cm wide and that you can actually get through it sideways but says you cant "jump" in (what an odd assesment by the way, who would just jump in?). His "proof" that it is impossible seems to boil down to one singular statement "I frankly do not think it is possible".

Frankly, I think it is possible.

 

[Zuleika]

If you've seen these demonstrators and believe it is an impartial and conclusive reconstruction, why don't you just post it? I'm not closed-minded, I'm willing to change my mind about the window if someone can show me why it's "impossible". But with respect, I'm not going to just take your word for it that you've seen a video that "proves" it is impossible when I can envisage a way it can be done.

Of course I understand you're not going to take my word for it and I said it would take me some time to find that physical demonstration of it being impossible to get out of that window carrying a child the size of Madeleine?
My advice is don't waste your time envisaging a way it can be done .
There was no need to use it .

 

[Anxala]

Of course I understand you're not going to take my word for it and I said it would take me some time to find that physical demonstration of it being impossible to get out of that window carrying a child the size of Madeleine?
My advice is don't waste your time envisaging a way it can be done .
There was no need to use it .

Agree. I'd also like to point out that there's no corroborated evidence that the shutter was raised and window open when MM's disappearance was discovered. Not being contentious here, just stating a fact.

 

[Anxala]

I don’t see that being enough to infer guilt if they have nothing else.
So I doubt that’s all they’ve got.
That's it.
On MM, I really want to believe that they have something more palpable on him, even if (not yet?!) tangible enough. This case "can't" remain indecipherable, without a conviction or just "solved" by "deduction" or "conjecture".
Regarding FF, that's my view too. But he even risked saying "when I reveal it you will fall off your chair,". If there really was an alibi, perhaps we would have expected that he had already mocked at BKA again...

Perhaps his remark doesn't relate to an alibi? Perhaps there's something else that FF is in possession of that 'undermines' the case against CB? It's so hard to know, isn't it, when we know so little...

 

[Dlk79]

My advice is don't waste your time envisaging a way it can be done .
There was no need to use it .

I'll ignore the veiled insult lol. I'm just as guilty of being obtuse, so well played. But no, there wasn't a "need", and maybe the window wasn't used . But in the interest of being impartial and objective, I don't see any reason to rule it out either. And isn't that the point of sleuthing? Prove to me it couldn't have been done and then I'll rule it out. If you can't, all options remain open.

 

[Dlk79]

Agree. I'd also like to point out that there's no corroborated evidence that the shutter was raised and window open when MM's disappearance was discovered. Not being contentious here, just stating a fact.

Depends on what you mean. If you mean there was no secondary person or video evidence of KM's account at the very moment she entered 5A after MM was gone, then yes, there is nothing to verify she wasn’t lying. Is that suspicious though, or an obvious fact because she was the only one there?

Simple question, and of course you don't have to answer, but do you think KM lied about the window being open then?

 

[Nikolai_ff]

There is no reason to go through a window when a seasoned burglar can easily open identikit door locks. The window is for light (so one does not have to switch on the lights in a dark apartment and alert tenants.) and sound (in case somebody is coming into apartment from another direction.)

 

[Zuleika]

I'll ignore the veiled insult lol. I'm just as guilty of being obtuse, so well played. But no, there wasn't a "need", and maybe the window wasn't used . But in the interest of being impartial and objective, I don't see any reason to rule it out either. And isn't that the point of sleuthing? Prove to me it couldn't have been done and then I'll rule it out. If you can't, all options remain open.

Pleased you've taken it in this manner ...lol . I may be back ...watch this space .