Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

[G-Unit]

The Braunschweig prosecutor's office must have been aware that Brueckner's lawyer felt that any trial would be biased after the things Wolters said. Maybe it wouldn't have been, but mud has been thrown and they won't want question marks associated with their office and the process. They may think that moving the trial elsewhere will be the safest option.

 

[enquirer6]

The Braunschweig prosecutor's office must have been aware that Brueckner's lawyer felt that any trial would be biased after the things Wolters said. Maybe it wouldn't have been, but mud has been thrown and they won't want question marks associated with their office and the process. They may think that moving the trial elsewhere will be the safest option.

I thought that the location of the trial was supposed to be determined by where Brueckner was living at any given point, with his residence at the time of any alleged offense being where the trial was supposed to be conducted?

Might have got that wrong, though.

 

[G-Unit]

I thought that the location of the trial was supposed to be determined by where Brueckner was living at any given point, with his residence at the time of any alleged offense being where the trial was supposed to be conducted?

Might have got that wrong, though.

Well he wasn't living in Germany at the time any of his alleged offenses were committed, so it wasn't that.

 

[mrjitty]

Well he wasn't living in Germany at the time any of his alleged offenses were committed, so it wasn't that.

Lots of thing in the Germany administrative state are governed by "wohnsitz" i.e where are you registered to live. This is often important because of the federal system.

As I understand it the prosecutor is saying the proceedings should be commenced in the place where he was last registered. hence Braunschweig.

The defence is saying the proceedings should be charged in the closest court to where he last lived - which they claim is the factory.

Personally I wonder whether the Court would have much interest in the argument.

 

[mrjitty]

No. Criminal trials are open to the public in Germany.

As I understand it, due to the nature of the offences against minors, there will be restrictions.

 

[mrjitty]

It was started in the Braunschweig court, but until jurisdiction is decided I don't think CB will be tried; I may be wrong, but that's my impression.

The process is broader than just the trial element because of the different administrative system in germany

As I understand it, the court must now also consider the indictments and the case and determine whether it should go to full trial.

 

[RichardKimble]

The process is broader than just the trial element because of the different administrative system in germany

As I understand it, the court must now also consider the indictments and the case and determine whether it should go to full trial.

Going back to the indictments posted by niner on the opening page of this thread, two of the rape indictments can't even have a date put to them, how then can it be determined who the victims were, both indictments say between Dec 2000 and April 2006. The young girl especially one would have thought would have the date indelibly etched in her mind after being tied to a pole and whipped.
In Germany when indicted does a defendant not appear in front of an equivalent to a magistrate to hear the charges ?

 

[mrjitty]

Going back to the indictments posted by niner on the opening page of this thread, two of the rape indictments can't even have a date put to them, how then can it be determined who the victims were, both indictments say between Dec 2000 and April 2006. The young girl especially one would have thought would have the date indelibly etched in her mind after being tied to a pole and whipped.
In Germany when indicted does a defendant not appear in front of an equivalent to a magistrate to hear the charges ?

As I understand it, the indictment triggers the 'intermediate' proceedings where the Court must review the case and decide whether to commence the main proceedings.

As far as I know, no trial has been set yet - but we may not hear everything about this

Criminal Procedure Law in Germany

Our legal team is here to provide you with advice on the criminal procedure requirements of German law. Contact us today.

se-legal.de

 

[G-Unit]

Lots of thing in the Germany administrative state are governed by "wohnsitz" i.e where are you registered to live. This is often important because of the federal system.

As I understand it the prosecutor is saying the proceedings should be commenced in the place where he was last registered. hence Braunschweig.

The defence is saying the proceedings should be charged in the closest court to where he last lived - which they claim is the factory.

Personally I wonder whether the Court would have much interest in the argument.

According to BILD information from legal circles, however, the regional court tends to be willing to follow the arguments of the defense attorney.

 

[RichardKimble]

As I understand it, the indictment triggers the 'intermediate' proceedings where the Court must review the case and decide whether to commence the main proceedings.

As far as I know, no trial has been set yet - but we may not hear everything about this

Criminal Procedure Law in Germany

Our legal team is here to provide you with advice on the criminal procedure requirements of German law. Contact us today.

se-legal.de

So there's a chance it may not even reach trial if being indicted only means that the police have finished their investigation and a file has been presented to the equivalent of our CPS, is that about right.

 

[Davieson]

Going back to the indictments posted by niner on the opening page of this thread, two of the rape indictments can't even have a date put to them, how then can it be determined who the victims were, both indictments say between Dec 2000 and April 2006. The young girl especially one would have thought would have the date indelibly etched in her mind after being tied to a pole and whipped.
In Germany when indicted does a defendant not appear in front of an equivalent to a magistrate to hear the charges ?

If the victims can't be identified and the offences dates are unknown, what evidence is there that these attacks took place ?
Are there actual videos of the events or are these too just alleged ?

It will be interested to see what happens with these charges.

 

[G-Unit]

So there's a chance it may not even reach trial if being indicted only means that the police have finished their investigation and a file has been presented to the equivalent of our CPS, is that about right.

An indictment is a letter from the public prosecutor’s office to the court requesting a public main hearing.

Criminal Indictment - Criminal Law Germany

An indictment ("Anklageschrift") in German Criminal Law is a letter from the public prosecutor's office to the court requesting a public main hearing. An indictment is brought if, after a criminal investigation, a public prosecutor comes to the conclusion that the probability of a conviction is...

criminal-law-germany.lawyer

The Braunschweig court accepted it, but whether other prosecutors and courts will agree if the jurisdiction changes remains to be seen. In my opinion CB hasn't much hope of avoiding a conviction for the child abuse in the playground in Portugal. I don't know what evidence they have in the beach case or in the Behan case. If gets less likely in the other rape cases as they don't have the dates they happened or the names of the victims it seems.

 

[mrjitty]

According to BILD information from legal circles, however, the regional court tends to be willing to follow the arguments of the defense attorney.

Bild is a laughably poor source of info.

 

[mrjitty]

So there's a chance it may not even reach trial if being indicted only means that the police have finished their investigation and a file has been presented to the equivalent of our CPS, is that about right.

No it's more like charges have been filed by CPS in Court and first there is a preliminary hearing

 

[G-Unit]

Bild is a laughably poor source of info.

Is that a fact or an opinion?

 

[G-Unit]

The process is broader than just the trial element because of the different administrative system in germany

As I understand it, the court must now also consider the indictments and the case and determine whether it should go to full trial.

Which I assume will take place when the jurisdiction question is settled.

 

[mrjitty]

Is that a fact or an opinion?

Bild has been described as "notorious for its mix of gossip, inflammatory language, and sensationalism" and as having a huge influence on German politicians.[5] Its nearest English-language stylistic and journalistic equivalent is often considered to be the British national newspaper The Sun, the second-highest-selling European tabloid newspaper.[6][7][8]

Bild - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[G-Unit]

Bild has been described as "notorious for its mix of gossip, inflammatory language, and sensationalism" and as having a huge influence on German politicians.[5] Its nearest English-language stylistic and journalistic equivalent is often considered to be the British national newspaper The Sun, the second-highest-selling European tabloid newspaper.[6][7][8]

Bild - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's also the best-selling European newspaper and has the sixteenth-largest circulation worldwide. (Wikipedia). It's difficult to know why people choose to read newspapers such as Bild and the Sun, but the demand is there. Reading them with caution is a good idea, but that doesn't mean that they're always wrong.

 

[RichardKimble]

Going back to the indictments posted by niner on the opening page of this thread, two of the rape indictments can't even have a date put to them, how then can it be determined who the victims were, both indictments say between Dec 2000 and April 2006. The young girl especially one would have thought would have the date indelibly etched in her mind after being tied to a pole and whipped.
In Germany when indicted does a defendant not appear in front of an equivalent to a magistrate to hear the charges ?

Another thing, the girl's age is stated as 14, yet the indictment says the offence was between Dec 2000 to April 2006, so in what year was she 14 ?

 

[Davieson]

Another thing, the girl's age is stated as 14, yet the indictment says the offence was between Dec 2000 to April 2006, so in what year was she 14 ?

If the girl's identity is unknown, then so must be her age. Maybe estimated to be 14 ish