Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[RichardKimble]

What I find especially bizarre, is how after the public appeal, which was at least tightly controlled he then did various adhoc hits with UK tabloids etc where he seemed to speak quite outside the ambit of the appeal.

And for those who think there is no danger to this, see the Wirecard case where german financial prosecutors accused the FT and two of its reporters of corruption, based only on the say so of a criminal Wirecard exec.

When Amaral talked of a German suspect with a criminal past for sexual offences it was widely thought to be Nye, maybe they thought he was going to name him, initially because of legalities in Germany CB wasn't named, somehow his named was leaked.

 

[RichardKimble]

Conversely, if he is innocent he'll be stuck the the label of being the killer of MM, while the real culprit goes unpunished.

His name is forever linked how can anyone else be investigated, Wolters named him as the killer.

 

[Davieson]

In your opinion.

If the appeal was done differently, let's say the authorities were far less accusatory, gave out far less detail, even kept CB's identity hidden, would it have been taken as seriously by the public? Would it have led to all the same witnesses coming forward?

You don't have to agree with HCW's strategy but you can't deny it's been effective in broadcasting CB's profile to the wider public in order to optimise finding potential witnesses.

As a consequence of Wolters actions, the public know a lot more about CB's activities. I'm not sure the investigators have learned anything extra.

 

[Mex]

Respectfully, CB has been investigated for six years, the case has been unsolved for 16 years.

I cannot speak for everyone else but I want the case to be solved.

My problem is that CB was publicly accused three years ago for MM’s murder yet the case against him still isn’t strong enough to charge him.

You may think that this is good police work but if CB doesn’t face a court for murdering MM it will be an absolute travesty.

My opinion is that information was released prematurely in 2019 and 2022 which led to the identification of the prime suspect in the case, who until then was being investigated with proper discretion.
So much so that no-one knew of his existence.

The cover having already been blown I think the best that could be done was to use the 'opportunity to go public and seek assistance to clear a few points.
The information requested was really quite elementary and not I think pivotal to the case they had been working since witnesses had come forward in 2017.

 

[RichardKimble]

If a photograph has to be proven to be authentic before it can be admitted into evidence, how does that work in a case whereby the accused was the photographer?

I suppose there are two parts to that, firstly no doubt modern technology will allow to be able to see if a photo in genuine, the second part, who is in possession of the photography kit ? if that can't be found who can say who took it.All imo.

 

[Dave55]

HCW's behaviour has lessened the chance of CB being found guilty even if he is actually guilty, that's why.

That's merely your opinion. It depends on what evidence Wolters has.
It's rather premature to judge Wolters until we know...it may be he's done a wonderful job. The DM case has been solved by the Germans..,five more cases in the pipeline....all cases where the Portuguese failed.

 

[Davieson]

I suppose there are two parts to that, firstly no doubt modern technology will allow to be able to see if a photo in genuine, the second part, who is in possession of the photography kit ? if that can't be found who can say who took it.All imo.

Way back when this came to light it was said that much of the material had been down-loaded from the internet, so while it was in CB's possession, it obviously originated elsewhere. Technology was able to differentiate between the two.

 

[Davieson]

That's merely your opinion. It depends on what evidence Wolters has.
It's rather premature to judge Wolters until we know...it may be he's done a wonderful job. The DM case has been solved by the Germans..,five more cases in the pipeline....all cases where the Portuguese failed.

Equally it is premature to judge CB until we know.

 

[Janosch]

Whether CB is or isn't guilty has nothing to do with the way the investigation has been managed. Either he did it or he didn't, regardless of whether or not you agree with HCW's conduct.

I get that some people have objections to the public accusation but the authorities themselves have admitted they've taken unusual steps with this case. There must be good reason for that IMO.

Personally, I just don't see what value it adds to the discussion here to constantly go over and over it.

Are you saying you can take "unusual steps" even if they are against Ethics, Human Rights, and presumption of innocence?

 

[Mex]

As a consequence of Wolters actions, the public know a lot more about CB's activities. I'm not sure the investigators have learned anything extra.

I think that HCW approach was a damage limitation exercise given the inevitability that CB's identity had already been compromised in 2019 by a third party.

 

[Dave55]

Any detective will attest that publicity yields witnesses, but very few of them have anything helpful to contribute. You only have to add up the number of sightings of MM which were reported to see what publicity can lead to.

HB came forward due to the appeal and it could be that her ordeal...and the other two rapes could establish a MO that provides that vital link that nails CB. You can't deny that police appeals are useful

 

[Davieson]

I think that HCW approach was a damage limitation exercise given the inevitability that CB's identity had already been compromised in 2019 by a third party.

What damage do you think was limited by his action?
He could have asked for information about the phone call and the vehicles without disclosing any more.

 

[Janosch]

HB came forward due to the appeal and it could be that her ordeal...and the other two rapes could establish a MO that provides that vital link that nails CB. You can't deny that police appeals are useful

Modus operandi is not proof, only a hint to focus the investigation. There is not exclusive modus operandi, many persons can share the same modus operandi.

 

[Malleux]

Are you saying you can take "unusual steps" even if they are against Ethics, Human Rights, and presumption of innocence?

Presumption of innocence is simply a legal principle that means the onus is on the prosecution to prove a suspect's guilt when it gets to court and not for the suspect to prove their innocence. It doesn’t mean a prosecutor cant accuse someone of a crime before a verdict has been reached.

Whether any ethical or HR laws have been breached is a matter of opinion, not a fact. Ultimately, the court has granted permission for the authorities to make this public appeal. In some instances, it is seen as a necessary step if other avenues have been all but exhausted but there is still a high level of suspicion against that individual and public assistance is required to fill the gaps.

 

[RichardKimble]

I think that HCW approach was a damage limitation exercise given the inevitability that CB's identity had already been compromised in 2019 by a third party.

Had it ? no name was released.

 

[RichardKimble]

What damage do you think was limited by his action?
He could have asked for information about the phone call and the vehicles without disclosing any more.

Indeed, simply put it could have been, were you the holder of the number ending in 683, who were you talking to, the vehicles does any one know of their movements prior to and around the 3/05/2007, people who knew CB would have put two and two together knowing the vehicles belonged to him, and either forwarded info or not as the case maybe the world didn't need to know imo.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

that means the onus is on the prosecution to prove a suspect's guilt when it gets to court and not for the suspect to prove their innocence

We have an accusation… where’s the proof?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Indeed, simply put it could have been, were you the holder of the number ending in 683, who were you talking to, the vehicles does any one know of their movements prior to and around the 3/05/2007, people who knew CB would have put two and two together knowing the vehicles belonged to him, and either forwarded info or not as the case maybe the world didn't need to know imo.

Instead we got, “CB is our suspect, we are certain he murdered MM and if you knew what we knew, you would think the same.”

This is awful, I can’t see how anyone thinks this nonsense was the right thing to do - by any objective measure, it’s not.

 

[Janosch]

Presumption of innocence is simply a legal principle that means the onus is on the prosecution to prove a suspect's guilt when it gets to court and not for the suspect to prove their innocence. It doesn’t mean a prosecutor cant accuse someone of a crime before a verdict has been reached.

Whether any ethical or HR laws have been breached is a matter of opinion, not a fact. Ultimately, the court has granted permission for the authorities to make this public appeal. In some instances, it is seen as a necessary step if other avenues have been all but exhausted but there is still a high level of suspicion against that individual and public assistance is required to fill the gaps.

Thanks. Now we know the prejudices of the court.

 

[Mex]

What damage do you think was limited by his action?
He could have asked for information about the phone call and the vehicles without disclosing any more.

If CB had not been exonerated I don't think we would have heard about the phone call or the vehicles until after the trial given that the phone had already been flagged up in 2013.
Madeleine McCann suspect told he was on police radar in 2013 Madeleine McCann suspect told he was on German police radar in 2013

I'm coming round to the way of thinking that the information put into the public domain by investigators is not as significant as we were led to think it was.
Probably neither HCW or the BKA are as naïve as some think.