Taskforce88
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I think its safe to say that most people who have looked at this event in some detail do not believe the 'official' version of events.
Madeleine McCann - Netflix documentary on this case
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Taskforce88
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So the cadaver and blood dogs were taken to numerous locations but only alerted police to three points of interest that were all linked. The apartment, clothing and the hired vehicle?
wtiger
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Just floating this out there with regard to the blood/cadaver dogs
The McCann's are both medical professionals, i would imagine that blood is something often encountered by them (and death too for that matter)
However clever the dog may be, it would not be capable of differentiating between the blood of different people.
I personally would happily afford the family a pass IF the only evidence was from a dog but i see plenty of holes without involving the dogs
The McCann's are both medical professionals, i would imagine that blood is something often encountered by them (and death too for that matter)
However clever the dog may be, it would not be capable of differentiating between the blood of different people.
I personally would happily afford the family a pass IF the only evidence was from a dog but i see plenty of holes without involving the dogs
Taskforce88
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I also find it odd that Kate claimed she ran out of the apartment leaving the two other kids there alone.
nwmouse
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I finished watching the series last night.
There were a couple of things that stood out to me:
1) The McCann's were asked why they were so controlled and unemotional about their missing child and Kate quickly said it was because if they cried or got emotional, it might cause the abductor harm Madeleine.
This makes zero sense to me.
2) After the press had blasted her for not crying I saw a close up of her doing an interview and it looked as though she was desperately trying to cry, but there no tears. Just the tip of her nose was red from when she rubbed it.
3) In just about every interview and photo I noticed that G&K were holding hands or were arm in arm, but it didn't look like affection or comforting each other, it looked more like a control thing, and as though they had their own secret that nobody else was privy to.
Another time, shortly after Madeleine went missing, the McCann's didn't realize they were being filmed by journalists, and they were bright, happy, smiling and waving cheerily to someone.
4)Hiring PR people so early into Madeleine's disappearance.
It just seems such an odd reaction, and so slick. They behaved furtively within hours of their child's disappearance as though they knew she'd never be found and they just wanted to cover their own backsides and keep up appearances.
5) They seemed so defensive and uncooperative -- almost disrespectful -- with the police in Portugal, even before they were considered arguidos.
Kate refusing to answer questions when she was taken in after becoming an arguido and muttering *advertiser censored**ing Tosser at the detectives. Their attitude was arrogant and dismissive, as though they were laughing at the Portuguese press, people and police. They were only interested in speaking with high profile people who offered them money and sympathy and didn't question their version of events.
Tampering with the crime scene. Gerry is not a stupid man and knows that the police would need to dust for fingerprints etc, but he purposely tampered with the window/blinds.
Overall, the McCann's behavior was odd to many people, not just a few. I mean look at Elizabeth Smart's parent's behavior when she was abducted. They were in true agony, crying, BEGGING for their child to be returned. They full cooperated with LE, the press etc. They were genuinely comforting one another and you could see their desperation and grief. They didn't immediately hire a slick PR team, attorneys, or create a pact of silence.
I saw no desperation, agony or genuine grief at all in either K or G McCann. It was like a production they were acting in.
moo
There were a couple of things that stood out to me:
1) The McCann's were asked why they were so controlled and unemotional about their missing child and Kate quickly said it was because if they cried or got emotional, it might cause the abductor harm Madeleine.
This makes zero sense to me.
2) After the press had blasted her for not crying I saw a close up of her doing an interview and it looked as though she was desperately trying to cry, but there no tears. Just the tip of her nose was red from when she rubbed it.
3) In just about every interview and photo I noticed that G&K were holding hands or were arm in arm, but it didn't look like affection or comforting each other, it looked more like a control thing, and as though they had their own secret that nobody else was privy to.
Another time, shortly after Madeleine went missing, the McCann's didn't realize they were being filmed by journalists, and they were bright, happy, smiling and waving cheerily to someone.
4)Hiring PR people so early into Madeleine's disappearance.
It just seems such an odd reaction, and so slick. They behaved furtively within hours of their child's disappearance as though they knew she'd never be found and they just wanted to cover their own backsides and keep up appearances.
5) They seemed so defensive and uncooperative -- almost disrespectful -- with the police in Portugal, even before they were considered arguidos.
Kate refusing to answer questions when she was taken in after becoming an arguido and muttering *advertiser censored**ing Tosser at the detectives. Their attitude was arrogant and dismissive, as though they were laughing at the Portuguese press, people and police. They were only interested in speaking with high profile people who offered them money and sympathy and didn't question their version of events.
Tampering with the crime scene. Gerry is not a stupid man and knows that the police would need to dust for fingerprints etc, but he purposely tampered with the window/blinds.
Overall, the McCann's behavior was odd to many people, not just a few. I mean look at Elizabeth Smart's parent's behavior when she was abducted. They were in true agony, crying, BEGGING for their child to be returned. They full cooperated with LE, the press etc. They were genuinely comforting one another and you could see their desperation and grief. They didn't immediately hire a slick PR team, attorneys, or create a pact of silence.
I saw no desperation, agony or genuine grief at all in either K or G McCann. It was like a production they were acting in.
moo
Taskforce88
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People are finding it weird that they called their daughter 'attractive'. I suppose it's not something a parent would first think when describing a child, is it?
nwmouse
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There is one thing that I cannot understand:
If the McCann's were involved in their child's disappearance what happened to her body?
They were not locals, or entirely familiar with the area. So how and where would they have disposed of her remains so they wouldn't be found?
Surely some remains would have been found by someone in the area/region?
I know there are wells in that region, but I would think they'd have been searched by now, due to tourists and locals etc who have been fascinated by the case for the last (almost) 12 years?
moo
If the McCann's were involved in their child's disappearance what happened to her body?
They were not locals, or entirely familiar with the area. So how and where would they have disposed of her remains so they wouldn't be found?
Surely some remains would have been found by someone in the area/region?
I know there are wells in that region, but I would think they'd have been searched by now, due to tourists and locals etc who have been fascinated by the case for the last (almost) 12 years?
moo
wtiger
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Assorted further strangeness....
Why did gerry refuse to answer the question "did you previously know Robert Murat"?
His answer of "i'm not going to comment on that" was six words longer than necessary!
If Jane Tanner did see a man carrying away a child....might she not have thought to mention it as soon as her friend had found her daughter missing?
Why does Kate only use the name McCann when dealing with this case?....in day to day life she is Dr Healy
In which way was refusing to answer 48 questions helping to get closer to madeleine?
Kate also claimed to have no knowledge of negativity towards them online or in the street.....yet the findmadeleine website was at that time dealing with that very issue
I can understand anyone when dealing with grief, perhaps not crying or screaming
There is no stencil for how to absorb grief or shock BUT feeling the need to try to produce tears....that touches upon a different emotion altogether and not one that should feature in Kate's version of the story
Why did gerry refuse to answer the question "did you previously know Robert Murat"?
His answer of "i'm not going to comment on that" was six words longer than necessary!
If Jane Tanner did see a man carrying away a child....might she not have thought to mention it as soon as her friend had found her daughter missing?
Why does Kate only use the name McCann when dealing with this case?....in day to day life she is Dr Healy
In which way was refusing to answer 48 questions helping to get closer to madeleine?
Kate also claimed to have no knowledge of negativity towards them online or in the street.....yet the findmadeleine website was at that time dealing with that very issue
I can understand anyone when dealing with grief, perhaps not crying or screaming
There is no stencil for how to absorb grief or shock BUT feeling the need to try to produce tears....that touches upon a different emotion altogether and not one that should feature in Kate's version of the story
Taskforce88
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Unless it was destroyed. That was one theory:
Detective claims Madeleine McCann was cremated in coffin | Daily Mail Online
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nwmouse
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Yes, I read about that as well as the Dutch guy who cremated pets and was questioned by police.
The reporters were following the McCann's everywhere so it might be difficult to smuggle her body into the church. I notice they did wear backpacks often, but surely Madeleine's body would be too big to hide in that smallish size backpack, unless there was a larger one that went unnoticed when they entered the church?
Very puzzling and I don't think we'll ever know.
moo
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I am currently watching the Netflix documentary. This is my very first post on websleuths, although I have been a creeper for a very long time lol so I hope I am not breaking any posting rules
I have read some of the threads and as a mother myself I wanted to believe the parents so badly and felt defensive for them (in my mind, who would go to such lengths to find a child you had killed yourself??)
Anyway, after seeing the footage of the cadaver and blood dogs, I am shocked.
I have always thought that the apartment was too far from the tapas bar for my liking and I figured all in the group they were with were exaggerating how often they were checking on the kids but I try not to be judgemental. I just imagine myself on holidays with my children and to be so far away and drinking alcohol as well - I would have suggested for everyone to come to my place so I could keep an eye on my kiddos. I find it hard to believe that they were all checking on their children every 20 minutes. If I had to do that I would just call it a night as that does not seem enjoyable to me when I drink wine. However, I thought maybe they all felt guilty for being so negligent so they embellished the timeline.
Like I said already though, the video of the dogs changed my opinion. As well as the allegations that they drugged their children with Tylenol and KM was checking on the twins to make sure they were still breathing as they slept throughout the ordeal. I am a dental assistant and our office does various levels of sedation so I have training to deal with any sort of medical emergencies that may arise - the most common is monitoring the patients breathing as they can quickly go from mild sedation to deep sedation and possibly death due to respitory distress. IMO KM and GM did not simply give their children Tylenol to knock them out - they were doctors and probably felt comfortable giving them a stronger sedative like Ativan or another benzo which comes with the breathing issues (being lack of breathing)
My heart breaks for the parents of children that are actually abducted, but they don’t have the resources like the McCanns.
I have read some of the threads and as a mother myself I wanted to believe the parents so badly and felt defensive for them (in my mind, who would go to such lengths to find a child you had killed yourself??)
Anyway, after seeing the footage of the cadaver and blood dogs, I am shocked.
I have always thought that the apartment was too far from the tapas bar for my liking and I figured all in the group they were with were exaggerating how often they were checking on the kids but I try not to be judgemental. I just imagine myself on holidays with my children and to be so far away and drinking alcohol as well - I would have suggested for everyone to come to my place so I could keep an eye on my kiddos. I find it hard to believe that they were all checking on their children every 20 minutes. If I had to do that I would just call it a night as that does not seem enjoyable to me when I drink wine. However, I thought maybe they all felt guilty for being so negligent so they embellished the timeline.
Like I said already though, the video of the dogs changed my opinion. As well as the allegations that they drugged their children with Tylenol and KM was checking on the twins to make sure they were still breathing as they slept throughout the ordeal. I am a dental assistant and our office does various levels of sedation so I have training to deal with any sort of medical emergencies that may arise - the most common is monitoring the patients breathing as they can quickly go from mild sedation to deep sedation and possibly death due to respitory distress. IMO KM and GM did not simply give their children Tylenol to knock them out - they were doctors and probably felt comfortable giving them a stronger sedative like Ativan or another benzo which comes with the breathing issues (being lack of breathing)
My heart breaks for the parents of children that are actually abducted, but they don’t have the resources like the McCanns.
I watched the entire thing yesterday.
There isn't a lot that is 'new', but I was also struck by the dogs like you, @staceydrew . They countered the blood alerts fairly well, but I don't think they explained away the cadaver dog alerts. The alerts on the car (hired many weeks afterwards) are really difficult to account for, IMO. Likewise the cadaver alerts on cuddle cat.
Amaral really doesn't come across well. I am thinking of the other case of the missing girl, with the mother and uncle being convicted. This also involved a theory on a body being refrigerated prior to disposal.
Does the 2 parallel police systems in Portugal make it more likely that someone will drop the ball, as it may be unclear whose job it is to do something?
The crime scene: it is awful how it was contaminated. It is not the same, but reminds me a bit of the many people invited into the Ramsey house in the aftermath of JonBenet's disappearance.
Eyewitnesses: the Tanner man has now been robustly discounted, so that's a dead end. Likewise, the Irish Smith family sighting I think has to be discounted now. There was an account I hadn't heard before, of a woman in Barcelona (Victoria Beckham lookalike) who seemed to be expecting a child to be delivered to her. This seems interesting.
I would say that overall the documentary has made me revisit my opinion; I think that it is possible that an abduction took place. But the stuff with the window and the shutter makes zero sense, with the illogic of using that window when the door was unlocked, and in the lack of prints. I also didn't see the documentary address "they've taken her" comments immediately after Kate's check on her apartment.
I don't get leaving the children and I doubt I ever will - at 1-3 years of age, a child is potentially going to wake up at any moment and need you. That seems very dangerous to me, because a toddler/pre-schooler will walk around to find you; how did they know she wasn't going to walk out of the unlocked door? Were there any lights/nightlights left on, or ambient light seeping into the apartment? Did the parents take torches with them to do the checks or was it light enough to see? The shutter seems to imply it would have been pretty dark with it down. Did the shutter effectively block noise too?
These are just a few random thoughts. With all the recent cases of children being found alive I would be so happy to be proved wrong and for her to be found.
There isn't a lot that is 'new', but I was also struck by the dogs like you, @staceydrew . They countered the blood alerts fairly well, but I don't think they explained away the cadaver dog alerts. The alerts on the car (hired many weeks afterwards) are really difficult to account for, IMO. Likewise the cadaver alerts on cuddle cat.
Amaral really doesn't come across well. I am thinking of the other case of the missing girl, with the mother and uncle being convicted. This also involved a theory on a body being refrigerated prior to disposal.
Does the 2 parallel police systems in Portugal make it more likely that someone will drop the ball, as it may be unclear whose job it is to do something?
The crime scene: it is awful how it was contaminated. It is not the same, but reminds me a bit of the many people invited into the Ramsey house in the aftermath of JonBenet's disappearance.
Eyewitnesses: the Tanner man has now been robustly discounted, so that's a dead end. Likewise, the Irish Smith family sighting I think has to be discounted now. There was an account I hadn't heard before, of a woman in Barcelona (Victoria Beckham lookalike) who seemed to be expecting a child to be delivered to her. This seems interesting.
I would say that overall the documentary has made me revisit my opinion; I think that it is possible that an abduction took place. But the stuff with the window and the shutter makes zero sense, with the illogic of using that window when the door was unlocked, and in the lack of prints. I also didn't see the documentary address "they've taken her" comments immediately after Kate's check on her apartment.
I don't get leaving the children and I doubt I ever will - at 1-3 years of age, a child is potentially going to wake up at any moment and need you. That seems very dangerous to me, because a toddler/pre-schooler will walk around to find you; how did they know she wasn't going to walk out of the unlocked door? Were there any lights/nightlights left on, or ambient light seeping into the apartment? Did the parents take torches with them to do the checks or was it light enough to see? The shutter seems to imply it would have been pretty dark with it down. Did the shutter effectively block noise too?
These are just a few random thoughts. With all the recent cases of children being found alive I would be so happy to be proved wrong and for her to be found.
I’m just on episode 1.. I have read extensively about this in the past and my current opinion is K and G know exactly what happened and where her body is so let’s see if this changes..
I think something happened to Maddie in that apartment be it accidental death by fall or over dose on sedatives or something like that.. there is also the option of her death being caused by something more awful if the abuse rumours are to be believed which I hope are not true.
I think Kate had to go along with Gerry’s choice of covering up her death for whatever reason and I think she was genuinely distraught at her death but is controlled by Gerry and has learned to subdue her emotions to make him happy, I think he is a classic psychopath! I am not in anyway defending Kate, I think to go along with it for so long and for a mother to leave her kids alone, especially after being told that the night before they were crying for her is unforgivable.
Anyway, I’m not sure if this documentary is going to have any new info or evidence but let’s see, I feel this is going to be a case that is never solved, and this is because of the shamboic police work to begin with..
As I said I do think they are involved but have that niggling wee 5% I can’t understand and that is where is the body and how could they have hid it for it never to be found when the whole place was searched and the scent picked up by a cadaver dog in a car rented 2 weeks after she disappeared, that I don’t understand either.. I take it that doesn’t mean 100% that a body was in the car?
Oh, and why was the first thing Kate did was to run out the apartment saying she’s been taken? I would have stood at the door and shouted for my husband across the pool..
This might be a bit of a ramble but this case really get to me, mostly makes me angry.
I think something happened to Maddie in that apartment be it accidental death by fall or over dose on sedatives or something like that.. there is also the option of her death being caused by something more awful if the abuse rumours are to be believed which I hope are not true.
I think Kate had to go along with Gerry’s choice of covering up her death for whatever reason and I think she was genuinely distraught at her death but is controlled by Gerry and has learned to subdue her emotions to make him happy, I think he is a classic psychopath! I am not in anyway defending Kate, I think to go along with it for so long and for a mother to leave her kids alone, especially after being told that the night before they were crying for her is unforgivable.
Anyway, I’m not sure if this documentary is going to have any new info or evidence but let’s see, I feel this is going to be a case that is never solved, and this is because of the shamboic police work to begin with..
As I said I do think they are involved but have that niggling wee 5% I can’t understand and that is where is the body and how could they have hid it for it never to be found when the whole place was searched and the scent picked up by a cadaver dog in a car rented 2 weeks after she disappeared, that I don’t understand either.. I take it that doesn’t mean 100% that a body was in the car?
Oh, and why was the first thing Kate did was to run out the apartment saying she’s been taken? I would have stood at the door and shouted for my husband across the pool..
This might be a bit of a ramble but this case really get to me, mostly makes me angry.
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I hope their version is true as the backlash if they are involved is likely to make the McCann name as common as hitler!
My thoughts on this from day one was that nothing happened on that evening apart from the police were called. The shutter was tampered with by the family...yet this was ignored and then left out of the official story as oh he must have done this instead...well is no one asking why the crime scene was staged?
Likewise the phone silence the day before, the rushing of people to that resort before the police are called, the cameras being doctored before eventually being handed over, the readings in car and cupboard.
I personally think it’s happened two or three days earlier and then the rest has been set up. It would be a really disgusting and far fetched thing if true, but there’s more to back that up than their version.
My thoughts on this from day one was that nothing happened on that evening apart from the police were called. The shutter was tampered with by the family...yet this was ignored and then left out of the official story as oh he must have done this instead...well is no one asking why the crime scene was staged?
Likewise the phone silence the day before, the rushing of people to that resort before the police are called, the cameras being doctored before eventually being handed over, the readings in car and cupboard.
I personally think it’s happened two or three days earlier and then the rest has been set up. It would be a really disgusting and far fetched thing if true, but there’s more to back that up than their version.
I agree with you something happened and they have set up a kidnap scene but 2 or 3 days earlier might be a bit of a push? I think maybe just earlier that day, before they went to dinner so giving them plenty time to hide Maddie.
Wasn’t there sightings of Maddie that day by hotel staff and other guests? do you think K and G’s friends also know what really happened? I really hope there isn’t another 7 people who would be willing to go along with this lie!
worldwatcher
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Yesterday I started to watch Netflix about this unsolved case. At this moment, I am in the middle of E7 "Truth and Lies"
Have to say, that it has been very interesting -so far - how the investigation went.
Also, I do think that the parents seems to be so controlled and collective, must have been a part of their medical background,imo.
I do not think, they have anything to do with her disappearance.
Even, if I was sceptical about the cost of this investigation, the huge media attention and so many children missing that hardly make headlines... I do find it intriguing, same time disgusting that child trafficking seems to be a low priority for Governments around the world.
Have to say, that it has been very interesting -so far - how the investigation went.
Also, I do think that the parents seems to be so controlled and collective, must have been a part of their medical background,imo.
I do not think, they have anything to do with her disappearance.
Even, if I was sceptical about the cost of this investigation, the huge media attention and so many children missing that hardly make headlines... I do find it intriguing, same time disgusting that child trafficking seems to be a low priority for Governments around the world.
What was the phone silence the day before that was referenced above? I have not heard that. I am also curious about the cameras being doctored?
The window had only the Mom's print on the inside and it was a print indicative of opening the window. Why would she open the window? If your child had been abducted and you knew that it was you who had opened the window, wouldn't you just say so in order to aid the investigation and keep them from going down the wrong avenue?
It is entirely possible that a stranger stole this child given that the parents established a visible pattern of leaving the children unattended, but as a partent myself, I find the Mom's behaviour very odd after her daughter went missing. I can't imagine being in that scenario, and who knows how one would actually behave if they were, but I simply cannot imagine not answering the questions from the police. Even if being treated like a suspect, I would want to answer their questions to clear myself so that they remove me as a suspect and focus on finding my child.
The window had only the Mom's print on the inside and it was a print indicative of opening the window. Why would she open the window? If your child had been abducted and you knew that it was you who had opened the window, wouldn't you just say so in order to aid the investigation and keep them from going down the wrong avenue?
It is entirely possible that a stranger stole this child given that the parents established a visible pattern of leaving the children unattended, but as a partent myself, I find the Mom's behaviour very odd after her daughter went missing. I can't imagine being in that scenario, and who knows how one would actually behave if they were, but I simply cannot imagine not answering the questions from the police. Even if being treated like a suspect, I would want to answer their questions to clear myself so that they remove me as a suspect and focus on finding my child.