Magnotta diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, 2005 doctor’s letter reveals

[Rayemonde]

OTTAWA — A Toronto man once charged with fraud [in 2004] alongside Luka Magnotta says he always knew
his co-accused was unstable but figured him too timid to ever get involved in serious crime.
. . .
“He was a very weird guy, which is why nobody hung around with him,” said Minakakis, who still lives in
the same Parkway Forest neighbourhood.
“He had a very weird way to him. Very weird. His eyes. He was very unstable, very shaky. I don’t know
if he was on meds or what ... He was schizo. That’s what we used to say: ‘The guy’s schizo.’”
. . .
Minakakis said he was charged because Magnotta distributed some of the goods he obtained to people
around the neighbourhood in an attempt to ingratiate himself.
“He seemed like he was trying to make friends and trying to be known,” he said. “But nobody let him in.
He was trying so hard to enter a group and he did what he did: he passed around a bunch of stuff.”
Magnotta bragged about being an escort and a *advertiser censored* star in attempt to impress people, he said, but
most found him simply “creepy.”
. . .
Minakakis said he was not surprised to see Magnotta in the news given his instability, but was shocked
at him being described as a murder suspect.
“I’ll tell you one thing, I didn’t think he’d be the type that could actually kill somebody,” Minakakis said.
“He just seemed so scared, so unstable, when it came to anybody. Say, ‘Boo,’ he would jump, you
know what I mean?
“Somewhere down the line, he must have got real twisted.”

http://lukatrial.com/wp-content/upl...n-attempt-to-make-friends-earn-reputation.pdf

 

[Rayemonde]

Interesting short video that simulates what life is like for some people with schizophrenia - shows auditory hallucinations (hearing voices), visual hallucinations, ideas of reference, paranoia.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYHVbLLO2bU

 

[newone]

Interesting short video that simulates what life is like for some people with schizophrenia - shows auditory hallucinations (hearing voices), visual hallucinations, ideas of reference, paranoia.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYHVbLLO2bU

I liked the comment that asked how come the voices they hear don't say sunshine! kittens!

 

[Rayemonde]

Here's a case from the UK that seems very relevant to this case! Bear with me.
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_crime_magazine__the_latest_stories/a_nicola_edgington_im_a_very_dangerous_schizophrenic/crime_vaults/

Nicola Edgington stabbed her mother to death and was found not guilty by reason of insanity (she was diagnosed with schizophrenia). After 7 years in a mental hospital she was released. She kept in regular contact with her mental health team, did everything she was supposed to and they thought she was doing well. Then one day she goes to A and E (ER) and says that she's having a nervous breakdown and she feels like she's dangerous. She says the last time she felt like this, she killed her mother. She repeatedly phones the police, saying the same thing and begging to be taken into custody so she doesn't hurt someone. The police said she was already in a place of safety, and she was taken voluntarily into a mental hospital. She left the mental hospital through a door that should have been locked, bought a knife and went on to stab two strangers in the street, killing one of them.

This time the judge said that her schizophrenia was under control at the time, and it was her borderline personality disorder that was a factor in the murder
He described her as extremely manipulative, and she was found guilty of murder and attempted murder, and sentenced to life in prison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Edgington

Here's a quote from the Judge's sentencing remarks:

"It may well be that both before and after you were experiencing some form of
transient psychosis . . . You have subsequently claimed complete amnesia.
The psychiatrists that subsequently examined you accept that you were suffering from an
abnormality of mental functioning, but disagreed as to what it was. The jury concluded
on all the evidence that any such abnormality did not substantially impair your ability to
form a rational judgment or to exercise self-control during the crucial period and did not
provide an explanation for the crucial conduct . . .
In Russet Ward you continued to receive anti psychotic medication but showed no signs
of psychosis. What the records show is aggression, intimidation, disruption, anger and
emotionally instability particularly when your demands were not being met, and a
regular feature was blaming everyone else for your situation. Dr Joseph’s view is that
early and continuing diagnosis after your mother’s death of paranoid schizophrenia is
understandable, but when your behaviour after your arrest for these matters is added to
the overall picture the dominant characteristic above your mental health difficulties is a
borderline personality disorder with the ability to form rational judgment . . .
you are manipulative and exceptionally dangerous . . .
There are a number of aggravating features including premeditation, and a
determination to overcome failure in order to achieve your ends. Additionally, the fact
that you obtained two knives for only one conceivable reason and the fact that you chose
the ideal location to rearm yourself. These attacks were unprovoked and random."

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...udgments/sentencing-remarks-r-v-edgington.pdf

Now, we know that around a month before the murder of JL, LM went to an ER and an appointment was made for him to see a psychiatrist. He met with the psychiatrist for an hour, and was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder - no medication was prescribed. Sounds like they didn't think he was psychotic or dangerous, doesn't it!

 

[Shimmers]

Now, we know that around a month before the murder of JL, LM went to an ER and an appointment was made for him to see a psychiatrist. He met with the psychiatrist for an hour, and was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder - no medication was prescribed. Sounds like they didn't think he was psychotic or dangerous, doesn't it!

I'm not saying or stating that in this particulair situation it was the case, but doctors can make mistakes. *personal story* I knew a girl and she lived in my building and she was diagnosed with severe manic depression. She was going downhill even to the point where she was openly talking about suicide. One night the crisis intervention team showed up and they didn't believe it was severe enough to admit her. The next day she jumped of our building finding her everlasting rest. That was a terrible misjudgement on their behalf.
i know that manic depression and being bi-polar or scizophrenic or borderline are different thing, but it was merely a point i wanted to make about a psychiatrist/professional who can make mistakes.
The human psyche is incredibly difficult to understand, and tests are in most cases done by observing the patient and the judgement of the professional. It's not like testing for cancer or hep c where you can actually "messure"the sickness.

 

[Rayemonde]

Yes, very good point how sad for the poor girl in your building The psychiatrist who diagnosed LM with borderline PD will be appearing as a witness for the defence, so we will learn more about what he thought about LM's mental state before the murder. I wouldn't t have thought you could diagnose someone with BPD like that after just seeing them for an hour, anyway!

 

[BorgQueen]

Here's a case from the UK that seems very relevant to this case! Bear with me.
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_crime_magazine__the_latest_stories/a_nicola_edgington_im_a_very_dangerous_schizophrenic/crime_vaults/

Nicola Edgington stabbed her mother to death and was found not guilty by reason of insanity (she was diagnosed with schizophrenia). After 7 years in a mental hospital she was released. She kept in regular contact with her mental health team, did everything she was supposed to and they thought she was doing well. Then one day she goes to A and E (ER) and says that she's having a nervous breakdown and she feels like she's dangerous. She says the last time she felt like this, she killed her mother. She repeatedly phones the police, saying the same thing and begging to be taken into custody so she doesn't hurt someone. The police said she was already in a place of safety, and she was taken voluntarily into a mental hospital. She left the mental hospital through a door that should have been locked, bought a knife and went on to stab two strangers in the street, killing one of them.

This time the judge said that her schizophrenia was under control at the time, and it was her borderline personality disorder that was a factor in the murder
He described her as extremely manipulative, and she was found guilty of murder and attempted murder, and sentenced to life in prison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Edgington

Here's a quote from the Judge's sentencing remarks:


http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...udgments/sentencing-remarks-r-v-edgington.pdf

Now, we know that around a month before the murder of JL, LM went to an ER and an appointment was made for him to see a psychiatrist. He met with the psychiatrist for an hour, and was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder - no medication was prescribed. Sounds like they didn't think he was psychotic or dangerous, doesn't it!

After she was "better", she ended up doing it again.
IMO, this is what would happen if Magnotta was released from psychiatric care.

Even if mental illness is a factor, and it appears to be "under control" for a period of time, doesn't mean it won't happen again. Some people, unfortunately, are just dangerous.

 

[Rayemonde]

Yes, and LM has had 15 years to learn to manage his symptoms and should know when his symptoms are worsening and he's becoming dangerous. Then he commits this atrocity without batting an eyelid and whilst still appearing perfectly normal to those around him. Even IF he was NCR, he is far too dangerous to ever be released because he gives no warning signs that he's going to kill and he apparently can't be trusted to take his meds, keep doctor's appointments or go to the doctor and insist on being hospitalised when his symptoms are worsening.

I hope that the persecutions cross-examines the expert defence witnesses thoroughly about psychopathy. LM's crimes really seem to be the actions of a psychopath rather than a schizophrenic and maybe this has been overlooked by his doctors. Maybe he is both, and his schizophrenia was in remission at the time of his crimes and that is what allowed him to carry out such an organised crime whilst appearing so cool about it! His schizophrenic symptoms when he was younger (but these can change over time) included auditory hallucinations, paranoia and anxiety/ fear, none of which he seemed to display around the time of the murder. Or maybe schizophrenia and psychopathy worked together, with delusions of grandeur making him think he could get away with murder and psychopathy making him WANT to murder.

 

[Rayemonde]

The only way I can see him having even a possibility of being found NCR if he had some kind of complex, fixed, long-standing delusion. That could mean that he was capable of planning the murder for months, pulling it off cooly and then fleeing the country. In order for him to not realize that what he was doing was wrong, then delusion would have to be something like he thought he had to dismember someone and post the body parts in order to save the world. Or he thought he was in a movie and he was acting out a part and JL was an animatromic prop. "Manny told me to do it" isn't going to make him NCR because he didn't have to obey Manny... Manny is a demon who took control of my body and physically forced me to do those things, maybe? :/ or Manny was going to destroy the world if I didn't follow his instructions?

Just trying to think of what his lawyer could possibly have up his sleeve to make him think that he has a chance of being found NCR.

 

[Rayemonde]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB28gfSmz1Y

"In this film, an on-call psychiatrist is assessing a young man who has been referred urgently by his GP. The psychiatrist takes a history in which she elicits persecutory delusions, third person auditory hallucinations, running commentary, thought insertion, and somatic hallucinations. She then makes a risk assessment, takes a drug history and assesses risk.

The patient is clearly suffering from a psychotic disorder and the most likely diagnosis is schizophrenia. Differential diagnoses would include a drug-induced psychosis."

 

[Rayemonde]

Thought blocking/ thought removal delusions.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xIrA6iCke2M

 

[Rayemonde]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7lIUtdZBaYY

Interviewing some one who is hearing voices.