Magnotta March Prelim Hearing & Trial Day 1 - Sep 29, 2014 - Thread #1

[Little Jedi]

This is simply homophobic talk. There is nothing deviant about meeting people online, or even meeting people for sex. LM approached him, he let LM stay because he felt sorry for the guy. This isn't a lifestyle. Gay people sometimes go to gay bars and go online because that is where you meet other gay people. Simple as that.



There is absolutely no evidence of this. If you have any to introduce, please do so.

[edited to add: didn't see the part where he was convicted of sexual abuse of a minor, which is indeed possible evidence of him being a pedophile, albeit not conclusive without further details]

I don't think Kamille meant it to come across as "homophobic" in any way.
But I do think that's what Leclair was trying to imply & insinuate !

I agree that 'pedophile' insinuation has been mis-interpreted. {Exactly how the defense intended IMO}

The 'young boy' Rubert was expecting meaning early twenties not a 32 year old.

While not condoning it I think the 'abuse of a minor' looks to be due to *meeting-up* with an underage *date* thru an on-line site which would be *Adult Only* therefore theoretically SHOULD be only for ADULTS.

~ I would also just like to bring attention to the fact East Berlin was still very much under strict Soviet rule during the entire 1980's. ~

ETA ~ Not that has any major relevance I just thought it was worth noting in respect of the dragging up Ruberts past ! ~

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm still on the fence about the defence of mental illness. We haven't heard from any psychiatrists who have examined LM yet. We do know that he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in his early 20s and was prescribed two different antipsychotics. Apparently he was not always compliant with his medication regime, and has been hospitalised for his mental illness on more than one occasion.

Paranoid schizophrenia is not a disorganised type of schizophrenia - sufferers can appear fairly normal, but still have delusions and hallucinations. Delusions and hallucinations can last for years and can sometimes even persist when the patient is on medication. Just because LM apparently planned the murder and his getaway, that does not necessarily rule out that he was delusional at the time.

 

[oenophile]

I don't think Kamille meant it to come across as "homophobic" in any way.
But I do think that's what Leclair was trying to imply & insinuate !

Yes, agreed.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

TRIAL WEEK #2 - THURSDAY 9 OCTOBER:

https://twitter.com/sleeCJAD

Enjoy?????????????????????:websleuther:

 

[newone]

nothing yet................

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Jury is in.

:judge:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Defence resumes cross examination of Berlin man who gave #Magnotta a place to stay shortly before his arrest in June 2012.
Montréal, Québec

 

[Kamille]

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 2h 2 hours ago

Day 8 of Luka #Magnotta murder trial gets underway at 9:30. further cross examination of German who hosted killer in Berlin. I'll be there


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 1h 1 hour ago

Justice Guy Cournoyer has entered the courtroom #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 1h 1 hour ago

Frank Rubert, the German who hosted #Magnotta in Berlin, is back on the stand. Jury is entering


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 58m 58 minutes ago

Defence Luc Leclair continuing cross examination of Rubert. #Magnotta didn't appear nervous when they passed police in street


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 58m 58 minutes ago

At bus station, #Magnotta looked like a bum to Rubert.


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 57m 57 minutes ago

Would you agree with me that you had pity for this creature in front of you, Leclair asks. Pity, no, Rubert says #magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 56m 56 minutes ago

Rubert says he just couldn't leave someone who had never been in Germany before. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 56m 56 minutes ago

#Magnotta looked like he had been living on the street for a couple of weeks, Rubert says


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 55m 55 minutes ago

Rubert gave interview to German newspaper couple weeks ago. "He looked like a bum," Rubert is quoted as saying in article


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 55m 55 minutes ago

The word Penner in German means someone who looks like they live on the street, or is a bum, Rubert explains #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 54m 54 minutes ago

Rubert was interviewed by German police after #Magnotta arrest. In April 2013, Cdn police met him. Were you telling truth, Leclair asks


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 52m 52 minutes ago

Leclair asking Rubert to read from transcripts to himself. Rubert doesn't seem to understand and reads out loud. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 49m 49 minutes ago

Rubert says he was asked several questions re alcohol and drugs. #Magnotta drank and Rubert asked him if he smoked grass, not sure


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 49m 49 minutes ago

When Rubert was with #Magnotta, they drank. Rubert was always "plastered". He didn't smoke hash or anything


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 48m 48 minutes ago

Rubert drank with #Magnotta on the Saturday in the Blue Boy bar. Rubert was drunk. On Friday, Sunday, they didn't drink anything


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 47m 47 minutes ago

Besoffen is German for plastered, by the way #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 47m 47 minutes ago

Immer, means always. So Immer Besoffen. Rubert was immer Besoffen according to the transcript from police interview #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 46m 46 minutes ago

There are many ways to say you're drunk in German, Rubert says. You may be plastered on the weekend, not Monday to Friday #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 45m 45 minutes ago

Is your memory better now than it was a year ago, Leclair asks. Rubert says that when he went out with #Magnotta, he had a beer or two


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 45m 45 minutes ago

But it was only on the Saturday that he was besoffen, Rubert says #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 42m 42 minutes ago

Rubert explains the Betrunken sein means having certain level in blood "At least I'm not too drunk to know where I live" he says #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 41m 41 minutes ago

Rubert says #Magnotta didn't drink much. It was Rubert that drank a lot. You can say I was plastered or drunk or whatever word you want to


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 41m 41 minutes ago

Leclair says Rubert doesn't understand. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 40m 40 minutes ago

These terms in German like drunk or always are normal ways to describe oneself. If you drink every day they say you are alcoholic #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 39m 39 minutes ago

Rubert's impression is that #Magnotta didn't need alcohol and only drank for fun


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 39m 39 minutes ago

Rubert liked to party on the weekend and drink on weekends #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 25m 25 minutes ago

Break for 20 minutes in #magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 5m5 minutes ago
Jury returns after a 20-minute break (read 45 minutes) #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Jury back. Defence needed time to set up video of German police interview of Berlin witness Frank Rubert. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Defence showing witness video still of his interview with German police. Witness doesn't remember where this was. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 4m4 minutes ago
Leclair using video of Rubert's 2013 police interrogation, to confront witness w/possible contradiction in testimony re: #Magnotta drinking

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
We see Rubert on the screen with cops but all we hear is a bunch of clatter, Rubert speaking German, translator French #Magnotta

Robin Edgar ‏@RobinEdgar · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial overflow room blasted with VERY high volume audio of April 2013 police interrogation video. Some journalists blocking ears.

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
Ears hurt. We are listening to German police interview at max volume #Magnotta

Domenic Fazioli ‏@DomenicFazioli · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta jury seeing video of police intv w/ Frank Rubert in Germany. Defence trying to highlight contradictions in Rubert's testimony

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Asking witness if #Magnotta was into drugs, witness said at time he drank and maybe smoked grass, not 100% sure. Remember that? #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
Rubert was asked if #Magnotta was into drugs, told Ger. police he drank alcohol, maybe smoked grass, doesn't remember

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says remember said that, but now after video, hears himself less than interpreter. #Magnotta

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 1m1 minute ago
Rubert responded he saw #Magnotta drink and asked Magnotta whether he smoked pot/hash. , but didn't remember exactly what the answer was.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness also repeats they drank alcohol, how much or what can't repeat today because already 2 years ago. #Magnotta

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 42s42 seconds ago
Leclair says the next answer Rubert gave was while he and #Magnotta were together, they didn't do drugs. They drank, but not sure how much

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 28s29 seconds ago
"I was always plastered, I've blocked out a lot of things too," Rubert said last year. He stands by that today #Magnotta

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 46s46 seconds ago
Rubert: Still today, I would say I blocked out some things from while #Magnotta was at my place. My plan was for him to find another home

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
Issue of how much #Magnotta drank after the slaying seems to be a defence issue. Not sure why yet.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says he did tell #Magnotta at the time, the way he looked he didn't fit and he should go to the hairdresser.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 38s39 seconds ago
That's when #Magnotta ditched his wig and looked more presentable and so they went out.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 17s17 seconds ago
Leclair is pressing very hard on Rubert's assertions he was always drunk, and #Magnotta didn't drink much.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 24s24 seconds ago
But witness says 2 years later,doesn't know how much beer or cola or whiskey they drank. I don't think anyone would remember. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 41s41 seconds ago
Witness says they spent 96 hours together and he wouldn't remember how many times #Magnotta went to the bathroom either.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 32s33 seconds ago
Was it 1,2,3 beers #Magnotta drank, I couldn't say. At the Blue Boy Bar, he was busy with others and myself, I was also busy with others.

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 33s34 seconds ago
Geman police asked: "You would hv noticed if he drank excessively?" Said #Magnotta drank while clubbing one night, not sure how much.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta was busy with other people in the Blue Boy bar, Rubert said. When I was drunk, bit drunk or plastered or whatever, we took taxi

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 51s51 seconds ago
Rubert drank with #Magnotta at home but not in way "that I couldn't walk any more." Beer or whiskey cola

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 59s60 seconds ago
German police asked if #Magnotta drank while at his home? Yes, they might have had beers together or "whisky cola"

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 41s41 seconds ago
Remember? Witness says if that's what's written, then yes. No, what about the video? I could not understand myself, witness says. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 25s25 seconds ago
In courtroom, #Magnotta often has eyes downcast, rarely looks at jury. Today, he's often looking at the witness, waiting for his answers.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 40s40 seconds ago
Defence moving onto inheritances mentioned yesterday. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Any ideas on whether Leclair wants LM to be drinking or not drinking? I'm so confused. :scared:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

An unflattering account of witness:

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/10/08/pedophile-who-harboured-magnotta-torn-apart-on-witness-stand

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Any ideas on whether Leclair wants LM to be drinking or not drinking? I'm so confused. :scared:

I'm really confused as well. I guess if Magnotta had been gunned and stoned that might have been another excuse for Leclair. "The drugs and booze made me do it" kind of thing. :dunno:

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
You said you received two inheritances? Witness says how much, I didn't talk much about that. #Magnotta

Robin Edgar ‏@RobinEdgar · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta's lawyer now seeking yes or no answers to questions from Rubert, who has a habit of answering questions with, "It's possible."

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says he testified about having money himself when talking about #Magnotta's money.#Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Defence: Did you receive two inheritances? Yes. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 48s48 seconds ago
Rubert says he had his own money; he didn't let #Magnotta stay with him for his money

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s52 seconds ago
The first? My grandmother. How much? 500,000 Deutschmarks. 1997. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 21s22 seconds ago
That's around 280,000 euro, witness says. 2nd inheritance? My great aunt. End of 2012. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 23s24 seconds ago
How much? 500,000 euro. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
So altogether, 780,000 euros from 1997 to 2012? Yes, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 50s50 seconds ago
But in 2012 police interview, you said you were receiving social welfare? Witness says not true. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says 1st inheritance was a gift and 2nd has not yet been finished until today. #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 48s48 seconds ago
Rubert explaining nature of inheritance, as Leclair suggests he was receiving welfare in 2012. Which Rubert denies #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says there's a community of heirs since 1897 giving % to another heir. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 46s46 seconds ago
Social welfare doesn't exist in Gemany any more, Rubert says. #magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s53 seconds ago
Witness describes unemployment system, involving supplements. I was self-employed &business wasn't good,you get govnt supplement. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
If you're self employed, you get a subsidy. that's what Rubert gets, he says. #Magnotta

Robin Edgar ‏@RobinEdgar · 50s50 seconds ago
Rubert now going into detail about the 2 inheritances he received and German unemployment benefits. Seems irrelevant to #Magnotta's crimes.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says got 2nd inheritance with a notary on a certain account. Until it's cleared up who inherits what. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 42s43 seconds ago
Lelcair says Rubert inherited two cats in April, 2013. Rubert laughs. I got them from a friend because his mom had died #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 52s53 seconds ago
Rubert says he still have some of his inherited money. Bouthillier objects to ? re earnings. Overruled. #magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta lawyer now on Rubert's inheritances, including cats. Crown prosecutor looks impatient, throws his head back and heaves a big sigh.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says earns about three, four thousand euro per month. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
In June 2012, you had just started working again, earning then per hour? Witness says which month? #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s52 seconds ago
Defence suggests witness had just started working again. Witness says working since 2010, has business. #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
Rubert earns 3-4,000 euros a month as self-employed geriatric caregiver.#Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 44s45 seconds ago
Rubert says he sells second hand laptops, cell phones, tvs on ebay. Can't say what he earns per hour #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 25s25 seconds ago
Also earns extra money buying and selling stuff on Ebay #Magnotta

Steven Chmielash ‏@s_chmielash · 1m1 minute ago
As a result, Rubert can't clearly state his hourly earnings #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 52s53 seconds ago
Cross examination or Rubert is over! Judge denies him the right to make a statement #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 35s36 seconds ago
Rubert dismissed. Asks to say something. Judge tells him he can't, his testimony is over. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
And that;s the end of; oh wait, Rubert wants to say something. Not allowed. That's the end of Rubert's testimony. Jury out #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
Five minute break #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

I wonder what Rubert wanted to say? :giggle:

I bet there are 50 reporters running outside right now to get his statement. :floorlaugh:

 

[Kamille]

I'm really confused as well. I guess if Magnotta had been gunned and stoned that might have been another excuse for Leclair. "The drugs and booze made me do it" kind of thing. :dunno:

There was a lot of mention of wine bottles back at the crime scene wasn't there? :waitasec:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

There was a lot of mention of wine bottles back at the crime scene wasn't there? :waitasec:

Sorry, I don't remember. If so, Leclair will say the victim poured booze down LRM's throat and caused his own murder! :tantrum:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wonder what Rubert wanted to say? :giggle:

I bet there are 50 reporters running outside right now to get his statement. :floorlaugh:

And I'll bet there will be many book publishers and movie makers after Rubert in the coming days.

 

[Rayemonde]

The talk about a wine bottle at the crime scene was because JL's body was violated with one in the video, and it was retrieved from the trash as evidence

 

[Morbida]

There was a lot of mention of wine bottles back at the crime scene wasn't there? :waitasec:

A wine bottle found in one of the trash bags at LM's apartment was used in an act committed in the video. That's all I remember about wine bottles at the crime scene.

ETA: Rayemonde beat me to it. :boohoo:

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Judge is back. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Jury is in. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta is restarting. Crown witness #12 is Yann Daze, pathologist

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 42s42 seconds ago
Judge explaining to jury that this witness is an expert in forensic pathology. #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 34s34 seconds ago
Judge tells jury that expert witnesses, unlike regular witnesses, can express their opinion on what they describe. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Pathologist describing his job and qualifications. Judge reminds him to slow down for interpreter. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Autopsy on body of #JunLin done over 5 different days. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
Autopsy of Lin Jun took place over five days, Daze says. The body came in in parts and at different times #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
I'd say it was difficult, Daze says. Body had suffered a lot of trauma #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 3m3 minutes ago
Might as well warn everyone, it won't be a pleasant testimony #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Body was found in pieces, torso in suitcase, hands and feet in Ottawa and Vancouver. A month later a head was found, Daze says #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
June 1: Claudette Hamlin summed up case to him and showed photos, torso in suitcase, other body parts, tools found, #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness only saw the ten photos shown to him by police. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness heard a lot about so-called murder video in media but didn't see it.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 40s40 seconds ago
Witness says he didn't want his job tainted by anything and already sees enough disgusting things at work. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 47s47 seconds ago
Witness says autopsy report signed and dated July 19, 2012. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 42s43 seconds ago
Witness says report sums up injuries and cause of death. Always done for autopsies. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 32s33 seconds ago
Drawings , photos, graphs can accompany report and illustrate injuries. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Daze also did drawings to show injuries on the body. Rarely are photos of autopsies filed as evidence #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 53s53 seconds ago
Photos are taken of autopsies and that was the case here. A copy of 13-page report being filed in evidence now #magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 37s37 seconds ago
Fortunately, #Magnotta jury will be shown drawings, and not actual photos, from victim's autopsy

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Daze said the body had already started decomposing #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 54s55 seconds ago
The report is peer reviewed by one of Daze's colleagues to make sure there are no errors. normal procedure, he says #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
1st body part was in two sealed bags from police, June 1. Documenting which container body part was in. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
The first was suitcase with trunk with tops of thighs and neck. Got the legs and arms, but missing hands, feet and head. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says opened bag, found grey suitcase, main compartment zipped up. Found 7 surface cuts on bag. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Lunch break in #Magnotta. Back at 2 p.m.