Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

[Isabelle]

I do not believe there was ANY time for them to have contact with the tower.
Unless it was before they lost radar... we have been told all along there was no sign of problems. :twocents:

It is probably fake

 

[HMSHood]

There are probably hundreds of stolen passports, eventually other delicts have a higher priority for Interpol?

I would think that a stolen passport reported to Interpol would be flagged period.

 

[HMSHood]

Air France flight 447 also had no chance for a mayday call before crashing into the ocean, and that wasn't terrorist related.

If I recall with Air France Flight 447, automated message regarding to the airplane were sent. I have not heard any with Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Interesting both happened at night.

 

[Sleuthster]

If terrorism was involved, I would think Malaysia would have been the target much more so than China. There has been a very controversial happening within the government for which many are very upset - having to do with the conviction, then overturned, then reinstated just yesterday of Anwar, a popular opposition party leader in Malaysia. But all in all, terrorism is not very common in Malaysia.

It's possible, but most likely improbable because if this is an act of terrorism then IMO it was planned for sometime. There is too much coincidence that those 2 passports where stolen in Thailand a yr and a half apart and both end up on the manifest. This would have been something planned out I believe.

 

[Sleuthster]

Has anyone seen this? This would make four stolen passports! All their tickets were bought through the same Chinese site.

Authorities have yet to confirm the identities of two more European passengers on flight MH370, adding to two others using stolen passports in the Malaysia Airlines plane which vanished over the Malaysia-Vietnam maritime border yesterday.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/two-more-e...ect-identities-onboard-missing-005206266.html

Has there been anymore news media reports of this? I find it intriguing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

CNN is reporting the FBI is now involved in investigating the identity of four passengers.
Sorry I can not link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HMSHood]

I've seen speculation this could be an attack related to China's support of the Russian stance on Ukraine, but that doesn't make sense at all with something maybe planned two years ago, to me.

I do not see how this would related to China's support for Russia in regards to Ukraine. I am thinking this could be related to China and its tensions with Muslims.

 

[elmomom]

There are two 45 yr old men on the manifest from the Ukraine..... Is it ok to post that?

Authorities have yet to confirm the identities of two more European passengers on flight MH370, adding to two others using stolen passports in the Malaysia Airlines plane which vanished over the Malaysia-Vietnam maritime border yesterday.


The Malaysian Insider understands that all four had bought their flight tickets from China Southern Airlines, the Malaysia Airlines codeshare partner for the Kuala Lumpur-Beijing route.

"The background checks with the embassies are being done but these two cannot be confirmed," a source told The Malaysian Insider, adding that both were from the same country.

BBM. I think this is very interesting.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...with-suspect-identities-onboard-missing-mh370

 

[HMSHood]

CNN is reporting the FBI is now involved in investigating the identity of four passengers.
Sorry I can not link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder who the other two are, besides the one with the stolen Austrian and Italian.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Ahhh websleuths... I knew there would be some discussion to be had here hahaha!

I haven't read through the entire thread... so I have no idea what kind of speculation, theory's and conspiracy's have been put forward as yet

I'm sure there are other pilots on here who can (or already have) added some of the technical scope and detail to fill others in - I would like to add my own thoughts on this - in the one forum where "armchair detective" is acceptable

My background:

I'm a former pilot in the Royal Australian Air Force. Aircraft types flown include everything from bug CT-4 trainers (Bug smashers) through to fast jet types such as the Hawk 127 and F-111G/C.

I recently (Jan/Feb) spent a month flying "Jumpseat" with Malaysian Airlines aboard their 737-800 and 777-200 aircraft - So this incident had a strange feeling of personal attachment.

_______________________________________

My first point of contention is the claim that they have not located the aircraft.
I'm 100% sure they know exactly where it is and they likely knew within minutes of it being confirmed down.

There are MULTIPLE independent and redundant systems that are operating aboard this aircraft type and configuration that are not related in task and essentially perform completely separate tasks, yet for one reason or another, utilize accurate real time location reporting as part of what they do.

Things such as real time maint. reports (that continuously send flight performance data to the aircraft maint. teams throughout the flight) would have included a GPS lat. Long. co-ordinate current to the last event log. If there was a major structural or mechanical failure, this would likely have been reported (even as system after system failed within seconds before complete disintegration in mid air). (Read more about the Air France Airbus A-330-200 crash and the way this system works with google search if you want to know more). This is a Boeing aircraft, and the system on the 777-200 is not as modern and comprehensive as the newer 330-200 airbus system, but its still well within capability of this.

Secondly - Civil Aviation Laws dictate that all civilian flights over open water must carry a emergency locating beacon device ... basically an EPIRB. On a small private aircraft, this would normally have to be activated by a person at the time of emergency, however the ones fitted to *most* large commercial airliners these days are automatically activated when they are triggered by a G-Load sensor (essentially recording a high G-force that is deemed consistent with a crash scenario) and possibly even water activation. I'm not 100% on these systems and what MA uses, but they are definately fitted in one shape or form.

Thirdly - Military Radar. I can tell you right now, the counties in that region are all monitoring that airspace with almost paranoid levels of constant observation. Whilst Indonesia and Vietnam do not have the most capable or moderm radar systems around these days, Singapore does - and you'd be hard pressed flying a kite in that area without one, if not all of them knowing.

We often flew joint exercises with countries in the area (from Singapore) and I'm more than aware of who is watching what and how closely round there

On top of that, there are "unspoken tensions" between countries in this region that I won't detail here - that ensure that with some countries getting their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities, there are always paranoid eyes watching everything and everyone who might dare cross their line of turf.

Then there are the SOSUS listening devices that have been placed all through the SE Asian waters - capable of hearing a boat leave port in Vietnam and identifying it as a village fisherman or a military type vessel.. its incredibly accurate and capable, uses triangulation and other classified methods by which is can locate a sound, vessel or target of interest down to a few meters. The system is constantly monitoring and everything is saved for analysts to review - for a long long period of time in review if required.

This area of the world is particularly "Hot" right now... strategically, things are starting to get a little on the "tense" side with defense budgets of all in the region growing and growing - and a good deal of that being spent by everyone on equipment that accurately monitors all activity of shipping and aircraft movements that cross their territory or even come close to it.

 

[elmomom]

The biggest difficulty I have thinking that this was directed at China, is that this was a Malaysian airline. It would be like Al Queda attacking an Egyptian airline flying to the US. If it was directed at China, why target an airline out of Malaysia, a mostly Muslim nation, and not a Chinese airline?

 

[PHB]

Air France flight 447 also had no chance for a mayday call before crashing into the ocean, and that wasn't terrorist related.

I don't think that crew knew they were in trouble until several seconds before impact, though. They were too busy trying not to crash to operate their comm systems.

 

[HMSHood]

I don't think that crew knew they were in trouble until several seconds before impact, though. They were too busy trying not to crash to operate their comm systems.

That is what I have read too. I have read up about Air France Flight 447.

 

[Leilei]

I wonder who the other two are, besides the one with the stolen Austrian and Italian.

Two passengers were from Ukraine, I think? Need to find the manifest again.

 

[elmomom]

The biggest difficulty I have thinking that this was directed at China, is that this was a Malaysian airline. It would be like Al Queda attacking an Egyptian airline flying to the US. If it was directed at China, why target an airline out of Malaysia, a mostly Muslim nation, and not a Chinese airline?

Sorry to quote myself, but duh.
It is entirely possible that the potential terrorists did not understand that this was a Malaysian airline, as they purchased the tix from the Chinese share airline. You can purchase a ticket from American Airlines and fly in a different country on a different airline which "partners" with AA, and if you aren't very savvy, you believe you are buying a ticket to fly on an AA flight. So maybe they thought they were flying on a Chinese airline after all.

 

[panthera]

Air France flight 447 also had no chance for a mayday call before crashing into the ocean, and that wasn't terrorist related.

I believe the possibility of terrorism has come to the forefront due to the individuals on board the plane with stolen passports. What legitimate purpose would they be using them for? Initial reports had at least two, now possibly four passengers using stolen documents. Something is definitely not right.

MOO

 

[HMSHood]

Two passengers were from Ukraine, I think? Need to find the manifest again.

I wonder if the Ukraine passport had been reported stolen as well.

 

[Sleuthster]

Many questions.

Does Thailand get along with China? Does Thailand get along with Malaysia? Who 's responsible for the stabbings last week in China? Could it be related?
What's up with Russia and China and Ukraine? Is China just patting Russia on the back or are they supporting them via force or supplies?

Malaysia is a predominantly muslum as prev said by another poster, so I don't believe it's Al Queda (sp?) either.

 

[Sleuthster]

I believe the possibility of terrorism has come to the forefront due to the individuals on board the plane with stolen passports. What legitimate purpose would they be using them for? Initial reports had at least two, now possibly four passengers using stolen documents. Something is definitely not right.

MOO

Exactly, how many times has a plane gone down due to pilot error/mechanical error and there where 2 people with stolen passports on it??

 

[Tulessa]

Ahhh websleuths... I knew there would be some discussion to be had here hahaha!

I haven't read through the entire thread... so I have no idea what kind of speculation, theory's and conspiracy's have been put forward as yet

I'm sure there are other pilots on here who can (or already have) added some of the technical scope and detail to fill others in - I would like to add my own thoughts on this - in the one forum where "armchair detective" is acceptable

My background:

I'm a former pilot in the Royal Australian Air Force. Aircraft types flown include everything from bug CT-4 trainers (Bug smashers) through to fast jet types such as the Hawk 127 and F-111G/C.

I recently (Jan/Feb) spent a month flying "Jumpseat" with Malaysian Airlines aboard their 737-800 and 777-200 aircraft - So this incident had a strange feeling of personal attachment.

_______________________________________

My first point of contention is the claim that they have not located the aircraft.
I'm 100% sure they know exactly where it is and they likely knew within minutes of it being confirmed down.

There are MULTIPLE independent and redundant systems that are operating aboard this aircraft type and configuration that are not related in task and essentially perform completely separate tasks, yet for one reason or another, utilize accurate real time location reporting as part of what they do.

Things such as real time maint. reports (that continuously send flight performance data to the aircraft maint. teams throughout the flight) would have included a GPS lat. Long. co-ordinate current to the last event log. If there was a major structural or mechanical failure, this would likely have been reported (even as system after system failed within seconds before complete disintegration in mid air). (Read more about the Air France Airbus A-330-200 crash and the way this system works with google search if you want to know more). This is a Boeing aircraft, and the system on the 777-200 is not as modern and comprehensive as the newer 330-200 airbus system, but its still well within capability of this.

Secondly - Civil Aviation Laws dictate that all civilian flights over open water must carry a emergency locating beacon device ... basically an EPIRB. On a small private aircraft, this would normally have to be activated by a person at the time of emergency, however the ones fitted to *most* large commercial airliners these days are automatically activated when they are triggered by a G-Load sensor (essentially recording a high G-force that is deemed consistent with a crash scenario) and possibly even water activation. I'm not 100% on these systems and what MA uses, but they are definately fitted in one shape or form.

Thirdly - Military Radar. I can tell you right now, the counties in that region are all monitoring that airspace with almost paranoid levels of constant observation. Whilst Indonesia and Vietnam do not have the most capable or moderm radar systems around these days, Singapore does - and you'd be hard pressed flying a kite in that area without one, if not all of them knowing.

We often flew joint exercises with countries in the area (from Singapore) and I'm more than aware of who is watching what and how closely round there

On top of that, there are "unspoken tensions" between countries in this region that I won't detail here - that ensure that with some countries getting their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities, there are always paranoid eyes watching everything and everyone who might dare cross their line of turf.

Then there are the SOSUS listening devices that have been placed all through the SE Asian waters - capable of hearing a boat leave port in Vietnam and identifying it as a village fisherman or a military type vessel.. its incredibly accurate and capable, uses triangulation and other classified methods by which is can locate a sound, vessel or target of interest down to a few meters. The system is constantly monitoring and everything is saved for analysts to review - for a long long period of time in review if required.

This area of the world is particularly "Hot" right now... strategically, things are starting to get a little on the "tense" side with defense budgets of all in the region growing and growing - and a good deal of that being spent by everyone on equipment that accurately monitors all activity of shipping and aircraft movements that cross their territory or even come close to it.

Thanks Derryn. Interesting..........