Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

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LambChop said:
The US values their friends above all and will help whenever they are called to do so. It is who they are and what they do. When MH370 reportedly went down in the Southern Indian Ocean it was Australia and the US that responded. China did also. But Russia was absent and to this day I have not seen it reported that they attempted to help.

I'm old enough to remember the cold war. I remember bombing drills where we had to put our heads between our knees in school. This happened pretty regularly. Russia was our only threat at the time. Now it is terrorists that are the threat.

Many nationalities were on this flight. Maybe we need to do more pulling together to help get those bodies back to their loved ones and help get the investigative personnel in there to do their jobs. There are always two choices in our world today. We can just sit there, or we can do something. jmo
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The U.S. was there, front and centre, helping as usual in the MH370 disaster. As the richest country in the world the U.S. are 'expected' to. I often think this expectation is unfair and I would like to say thank you.

Having said that, I have to say that every country thinks that they help their 'friends'. This is not unique to the U.S. The U.S. is not 'holier than thou'. Of course the issue is that the U.S. has different friends than the Russians and, from time to time, their definition of friends changes. During the height of the 9/11 crisis, Canada immediately agreed to take in all international flights and allowed them to land on Canadian soil, in spite of the risk that these flights were carrying explosives. How did the U.S. government respond? They thanked the U.K. and other countries. Then, when the U.S. decided to attack Iraq due to their weapons of mass destruction, and Canada suggested that more information might be appropriate, the U.S. slammed their "friend". Many American companies cancelled their business contracts with Canadian companies. Canada was now considered to be NOT a friend. Say what??

My point in all of this is not to blame Americans. We ALL do the same things. We look after our best interests. Life isn't simple. But to blame the Russians for not being mentioned in the American media as helping out with MH370 is perhaps a bit naive. Were the Japanese mentioned in the American media as helping out? They are a considerably richer (and closer to the disaster) nation. Was Canada mentioned? (I bet we didn't contribute our relative wealth to this tragedy.) In the MH370 disappearance, I think we can all agree that Australia took on more that their share of expense and responsibility. Again I would like to say thanks.

Having said this, I do tend to believe that the Russians have a fair amount of blame to own in the downing of this recent Malaysian airline that crashed. What I don't want to happen is that the blame comes from a naive political agenda as opposed to more objective criteria. It's not about memories of hiding under desks.

Having read about a number of victims in the Ukrainian tragedy, my eyes are filled with tears. The victims died so unnecessarily and with complete innocence. What has happened to our world? Why can't we move on to a more civilized level, taking the time to understand each other? Let's not just fall back on old political lines. Let's demand that we all simply respect humanity.
 
"@11AliveNews: Pentagon: Russia helped deploy missile that hit plane http://t.co/K6JxwR7lZw"

All posts are MOO.
 
panthera said:
I now understand your use of the word "accident" in this context, IF the intent was to take down something other than MH17 or another commercial flight. Randomly firing at anything in the air, however, would be akin to shooting off a gun and "accidentally" killing someone who is hit by the bullet. It is still a criminal act by discharging that weapon with careless disregard for human life. Unfortunately in this case, those responsible may never pay for the consequences of their actions...or at least not here on earth.
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Randomly firing in a peaceful & law abiding society may be considered a criminal act under
certain circumstances ... for instance, among a population as opposed to alone in the woods.

But war torn areas seem to have different rules because people
get killed in them & soldiers are not arrested & imprisoned for it.

The Ukraine is currently going through some kind of civil war where
Russian separatists are engaged in combatting the Ukraine army.

Are the local police out searching to arrest a citizen for the
downing of the military cargo AN-26 plane on 14 July 2014?
... or is it being accepted as an act & casualty of combat
between the 2 opposing forces ?

I am not trying to defend or blame anyone. As I said before it is a terrible trajedy
... I wish it never happened. I wish that no innocent people were hurt.
I wish they would all get along & live together peacefully.
 
2rose said:
I think the New Zealand person is the dual Australian citizenship.
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Thanks. I must have been half asleep when I was watching the news, I thought it was a dual Australian-Dutch citizen but now I see that the dual Dutch citizen was American.
 
Newman backs call for thorough investigation

The comments have been echoed by Queensland Premier Campbell Newman, who will welcome world leaders to Brisbane later this year.

Mr Newman says the Russian president will not be welcome in Queensland unless he fully supports a thorough investigation into the tragedy.

"If Mr Putin is not prepared to do that, frankly I believe that Queenslanders don't want him here at the G20," he said.

"He has the opportunity to demonstrate some good faith. That can be done by properly getting behind international efforts to get to the bottom of what is clearly in my view a crime, a terrible crime."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/growing-pressure-to-ban-putin-from-g20/5609154

I'm sure Putin is quivering .. chances are he will allow what seems to be a thorough investigation, but certainly not because of anything some Australian state politician said.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Newman backs call for thorough investigation

The comments have been echoed by Queensland Premier Campbell Newman, who will welcome world leaders to Brisbane later this year.

Mr Newman says the Russian president will not be welcome in Queensland unless he fully supports a thorough investigation into the tragedy.

"If Mr Putin is not prepared to do that, frankly I believe that Queenslanders don't want him here at the G20," he said.

"He has the opportunity to demonstrate some good faith. That can be done by properly getting behind international efforts to get to the bottom of what is clearly in my view a crime, a terrible crime."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/growing-pressure-to-ban-putin-from-g20/5609154

I'm sure Putin is quivering .. chances are he will allow what seems to be a thorough investigation, but certainly not because of anything some Australian state politician said.
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G20 is an exclusive club and if you're kicked out it's not a good thing. It hurts Russia economically I believe.
 
Steely Dan said:
G20 is an exclusive club and if you're kicked out it's not a good thing. It hurts Russia economically I believe.
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He's not talking about booting him out (he hasn't got the power to do it), he's saying Queenslanders wouldn't welcome Putin, which is just grandstanding.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Newman backs call for thorough investigation

The comments have been echoed by Queensland Premier Campbell Newman, who will welcome world leaders to Brisbane later this year.

Mr Newman says the Russian president will not be welcome in Queensland unless he fully supports a thorough investigation into the tragedy.

"If Mr Putin is not prepared to do that, frankly I believe that Queenslanders don't want him here at the G20," he said.

"He has the opportunity to demonstrate some good faith. That can be done by properly getting behind international efforts to get to the bottom of what is clearly in my view a crime, a terrible crime."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/growing-pressure-to-ban-putin-from-g20/5609154

I'm sure Putin is quivering .. chances are he will allow what seems to be a thorough investigation, but certainly not because of anything some Australian state politician said.
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I wasn't real sure what it is so I looked it up and it's not a small slight. It has economic implications for Russia. Plus the other guys get to talk behind Russia's back.

G20
 
4:06pm: A family of five living in an outer-Melbourne suburb have emerged as the latest victims of the flight MH17 disaster.

Malaysian-born woman Shaliza Zain Dewa, 45, and her Dutch-born husband Johannes Van Den Hende had been on holiday in Amsterdam with their children Piers, Marnix and Margaux, aged 15, 12 and 8. :cry:

The official number of Victorian victims is 10 however a number of Victorian residents are believed to have been travelling on foreign passports.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37tOCRAY0

Australian victims of MH17 disaster

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/australian-victims-of-mh17-disaster-20140718-zugee.html
 
Anyway, Putin will probably allow a full investigation into the crash and then be horrified that rogue separatists had done this and have them imprisoned. JMO
 
Mrs G Norris said:
He's not talking about booting him out (he hasn't got the power to do it), he's saying Queenslanders wouldn't welcome Putin, which is just grandstanding.
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I respectfully disagree with the grandstanding comment.
 
Steely Dan said:
Anyway, Putin will probably allow a full investigation into the crash and then be horrified that rogue separatists had done this and have them imprisoned. JMO
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Yep that's what I think will happen, except I think they'll be condemned to death.
 
It's not easy gathering evidence when we are not allowed on site. It just makes you wonder what they are trying to hide. Kudos to the world leaders that are putting pressure on Putin!
 
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